I switched from KS-18XL to KS-S16 Pro - point of (re)view

[Magovec]

To whoever thinks about the same switch as I was continuosly thinking about for several months. And I did it.

I had Kingsong 18XL for 3 years. I loved it. It is perfectly balanced, universal, lightweight and compact, yet powerful and long distance street wheel. For flat surfaces, street city riding it is perfect. It is not an offroad machine. I had 3 main reasons why I was thinking about switching:

• We have a lot of cracks on streets and cycling pavements - so something more comfortable
• My major crashes during last 2 seasons were due to my poor preparedness for the road ahead, e.g. barely visible bump or bigger crack than I expected and without suspension "the kick" I got was too big to handle - so suspension for better safety
• Stability in light offroad because with 18XL (perhaps mainly because of thinner tire with street grip) when I traverse from asphalt to grass or dirt it is very perceivable that the stability drops significantly - so something with better, thicker tire with some offroad grip

S16 came as a rejuvenation. I saw many videos on youtube and read many articles about S16 and its Pro variant. Here are my findings (I have S16 Pro batch 2, bought April 1st 2024):

• It is very similarly nimble (to my surprise). The thicker tire and bigger weight does not matter. Only breaking is harder.
• It is relatively small. Without powerpads applied it is very small wheel.
• It is distinctively more powerfull. Even thought I am not a power rider pushing a wheel to its limits when accelerating S16P feels way more powerful and easy to gain speed.
• It feels like a “tank” when riding. It "flies" over no matter the surface.
• It is heavy to carry around. Significantly worse manual handling (e.g. caring it 2 floors up in the building etc.)

Biggest advantages of S16 Pro over 18XL

• Suspension – perfect, enjoyable, comfortable and much safer ride
• Offroad stability – in cases when I cross from asphalt to grass, forest path and back it is super stable
• Overall the ride is faster – because worse roads do not slow you down. In average it is faster
• Kickstand - it is there all the time, it does not get in the way, it looks fine and it is super stable
• Encouragement to "play" - while riding on 18XL I was "commuting" from A to B, finding the best, smoothest way to get there safely and on time. On S16 while you ride it encurages you to "jump over this small bump, go via that short side road and then back to the street...". Never thought I would feel this. It is more fun.

Biggest disadvantages of S16 Pro over 18XL

• Weight – even though it is one of the lightest EUC on the market today it is heavy for day-to-day city manual handling (picking it up stairs, getting in/out of public transport, etc.)
• Range – the range is halved to what I hoped for, which I find disturbing in a view that both have almost identical battery capacity
• Carry handle (the black one in front for one-handed carring not the trolley handle used when pushing it. The troley handle is actualy fine) – worse manipulation, it is plastic and cracks when lifted, thus one is affraid to trust it to sustain such weight, yet after 2 months of daily use it is fine...

Hope it helps you guys, who think about switching.

Edited June 9 by Magovec

[BlueCrow]

Hope you're enjoying your new wheel. Do you find the improved ride on the S16 outweigh the convenience of your 18XL? I presume you still have your 18XL. Do you find yourself wanting to take 18XL instead? 

[slippyfeet]

I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment.

I was able to have both the 18XL and S16 Pro in my possession at the same time to do back-to-back comparisons and with my leisure recreational street rider style, I'm keeping the 18XL and selling off the S16 Pro to a hybrid commuter/ bike trail rider.

Things I'd miss from the S16 Pro are the kickstand, and the grippy tire.

What I disliked the most is the super loud motor whine.

[Magovec]

1 hour ago, BlueCrow said:

Hope you're enjoying your new wheel. Do you find the improved ride on the S16 outweigh the convenience of your 18XL? I presume you still have your 18XL. Do you find yourself wanting to take 18XL instead? 

I sold my 18XL yesterday (it wa on sale for a while so I did not want to suddenly stop as buyers were already calling). Right now I do have the biggest issue in battery, respective range. My old 18XL was able to do around 85km with 15% charge left. As I described in a different topic on S16 I did today 12km which costed approx 40% of battery. Day before I did 34km ride when battery started at 89% and finished on 4% almost dead. The range is the biggest problem of S16. But I am currently investigating if it is problem of my piece (e.g. fault) or by design and perhaps they can improve this in FW in the future. But still, this stays like the most annoying thing which one cannot fully adapt to it (compare to for example weight which is heavy, but when used to it - manageable).

[Funky]

On 4/9/2024 at 11:53 PM, Magovec said:

Biggest disadvantages of S16 Pro over 18XL
1.    Weight – even though it is one of the lightest EUC on the market today it is heavy for day-to-day city riding and handling
3.    Handle – worse manipulation/handling (between people on a pavement, bus station, avoiding stairs etc.)

And that's why i will not buy any new EUC ever.. If manufacturers keep making heavy wheels without good carry/trolley handle.  (One handed)

I'm waiting for that 20kg wheel that can replace my 18xl.  For daily 5km commutes to/from work going 25-35kmh speeds. Battery size - don't care, i change my 18xl every second weekend.. Meaning i'm fine going for 2x smaller battery and charging it every weekend. (I change it when battery drops around 50%. Luckily it's right on spot every second weekend.)

Edited April 11 by Funky

[DavidB]

It took them years to get rid of the Kingsong whine ( tho' it still wasn't quiet). Now they have a different noise to annoy the rider.

[sidderke]

Magovec, first of all thank you for your post! 

I have an 18XL that I still love very much, so not really looking for an upgrade. But I *was* thinking, IF I should upgrade, if I would upgrade to something like an S16, because it seems like it comes closest in some ways to an 18XL. From all the new wheels, it seems the lightest, cheapest. And of course, suspension sounds nice. That being said, unfortunately your review highlights *exactly* why I'm not keen on replacing my 18XL... 

 Range. I adore the range of the 18XL, and I still think it's one of the best, if not the best, in a weight/range ratio. The thing that comes close seems an original Sherman. It seems like all the new wheels have markedly lower ranges than an 18XL, and it's exactly that '80km-ish' figure that as one of the huge draws for me of the 18XL, and it has pretty much holds true. I'm not a heavy rider, I need to add. (75kg). Don't know if the normal S16 vs S16 Pro would have better range, because of the more powerful motor?

Weight: I use my wheel mostly in the city. Having a good trolley handle and something I can lift with one hand, is nice, and the current weight is already heavy to use on public transport, stairs, etc.  I used an original Sherman for a couple of weeks, and while I adored the range, the feel and the stability, it was a markedly more of a 'drag' to use in public transport/stairs/cafes/... The 18XL does still seems like the perfect in-between between portable and power.

Thanks again for your review, I hope the S16 and S16Pro would make the prices on 18XL significantly lower (which is not the case so far), and that there are still options in the future coming for sub-30kg wheels with a huge range, not the fastest speed, and suspension (although that also adds some maintenance? I love how low-maintenance my previous EUC's - 18XL and InMotion V10f were).  Would love a kickstand as well.

Edited April 14 by sidderke

[rcgldr]

9 hours ago, sidderke said:

I hope the S16 and S16Pro would make the prices on 18XL significantly lower (which is not the case so far)

There is 18XL V2 now, spiked pedals, and power pad like bumps on the upper pads. Some of the smaller dealers with old inventory are discounting 18XL, one for around $1400, but it was over 2 year old stock, and the battery was never maintained. Inmotion V11 selling for $1600 hasn't resulted in much of a price drop either ($1845 for 18XL V2 at EUCO, $1950 for old 18XL at eWheels).

Edited April 14 by rcgldr

[Oohyeah KL]

Just about to make my final decision whether to upgrade from my KS18L (not XL, but apart from the battery size should be relatively similar?), so would love to get your further thoughts!

I use mine as a daily commuter travelling about 10km total to and from work. My main reasons for considering the switch:

1. My wheel is already nearly 6 years old, and after a long ride, the engine makes a whirring noise. I'm afraid it might suddenly give up on me one day while riding!

2. I want a suspension to be able to handle unexpected bumps and potholes, which have been the causes of crashes before.

3. My 18L battery is only 1048kWh IIRC and mileage isn't what it used to be anymore after all these years, so want a new one that also gives me longer range.

 

Would love your thoughts on the following:

1. TIRE - How do you find the turning nimbleness on the S16pro, considering it's a nobby (at least nobbier) tire compared with the 18XL street tire? I switched to a nobby tire on my 18L and find it much more difficult to turn (especially at higher speeds), and I only recently learned that nobby off-road tires are supposedly harder to turn with.  I can ask them to change to a street tire for me, but if the default ones are just as nimble, then I'll just go with that.

2. SUSPENSION - I have a choice between coil suspension (cheaper) and air suspension (will cost about $35 more). Did you have a choice, and what did you choose? Any advice on which? I hear that air suspension is much more comfortable, but has more maintenance?

3. JUMPS / STAIRS - with the pads, are you now able to jump up kerbs or small steps? I'm hoping to be able to do that instead of having to dismount and pull the wheel up.  And have you tried going down stairs? No problem?

Thanks!

Edited May 30 by Oohyeah KL

[rcgldr]

I recently upgraded from V8F to 18XL, and happy with it. Suspension is not needed where I ride (paved bike paths), and I didn't want to bother with the maintenance of a suspension EUC. 

2 hours ago, Oohyeah KL said:

TIRE

JUMPS / STAIRS 

18L has a 2.5 inch wide street tire. A wider street tire would be more responsive to tilting, but a knobby tire is less responsive than a street tire, as you've found out with the 18L. I don't know if the S16 Pro knobby tire would be more or less responsive than the 18L street tire. 

Jump pads (the ones that hold feet down on pedals), allow a rider to jump with an EUC. Jump pads with spiked pedals could be a potential issue if having to bail from an EUC. Power pads (the ones in front of shins and behind calf muscles) allow a rider to exert more torque onto an EUC, for more acceleration and deceleration.

 

Edited May 30 by rcgldr

[padluka]

2 months or 2 weeks?:)

I actually managed to rode 47km on one charge with my weight(125kg) and 17% left(which became 23% in half an hour after ride).

Higher pressure(I ride 50psi) and lower speed helps a lot.

I think one of the reasons of such bad range is that you ride faster(faster accelerations, higher average speed)

[Magovec]

On 5/30/2024 at 9:25 AM, Oohyeah KL said:

1. TIRE - How do you find the turning nimbleness on the S16pro, considering it's a nobby (at least nobbier) tire compared with the 18XL street tire? I switched to a nobby tire on my 18L and find it much more difficult to turn (especially at higher speeds), and I only recently learned that nobby off-road tires are supposedly harder to turn with.  I can ask them to change to a street tire for me, but if the default ones are just as nimble, then I'll just go with that.

Nimbleness is very similar. i mentioned it in my first post in this topic but I was actually really surprised by this. I also expected a way worse nimbleness being it knobby and also fatter tire, but this is wrong. The tire in actually not typical off-road knobby type but rather street tire with knobs  Nevertheless I am not affraid to say that S16Pro is very nimble. 

On 5/30/2024 at 9:25 AM, Oohyeah KL said:

2. SUSPENSION - I have a choice between coil suspension (cheaper) and air suspension (will cost about $35 more). Did you have a choice, and what did you choose? Any advice on which? I hear that air suspension is much more comfortable, but has more maintenance?

We do not have this choice. All S16Pro sold here are with coil only. Mine has a coil. I cannot compare it side-by-side with the air variant but to me the suspension works very vell and it is one of the best thing on a S16Pro. I do like it and enjoy it every ride. But it was necessary to adjust it at the beginning (somewhere in the different topic I described it) but after it the only maintenance I did for last two months was to oil it once.

On 5/30/2024 at 9:25 AM, Oohyeah KL said:

3. JUMPS / STAIRS - with the pads, are you now able to jump up kerbs or small steps? I'm hoping to be able to do that instead of having to dismount and pull the wheel up.  And have you tried going down stairs? No problem?

This is possible. S16 is not an "offroad dirt bike", but such small bumps so as steps or kerbs handles with ease. I personally adjusted to it already and in half of situations when I was also forced to dismount from 18XL before now I overcome with no problem.

Overall, I started this threat exactly to help you guys who are before the similar decision I was months back whether to change 18(X)L to something like S16Pro. Even after 2 months of owning S16Pro (currently 1100 km on it) I still stand behind my original findings as described in the first post. 

To sum it up in a one sentence - S16Pro is a perfect wheel, currently sold as a second batch with fixes to most annoying originally found discrepancies, it is very well balanced allrounder (but not the fastest, not the most dirty-jumping beast, not the lightest, not the heaviest, etc.), very nimble, very comfortable, capable city commuter wheel with one big flaw, which is (from my point of view) the range. For me it can do approx. 50km. Not more. Not talking about +/- 5km, but it cannot do 60 km while normal riding (yes for a case when carefully riding max 25 kph for the whole ride, but which I do not consider this normal riding). For somebody like you, when you say "travelling about 10km total", I would say this is not a problem at all. You can push it hard from the beginning or ride for 3 days with no charging in between, but I quite often need to go 3 long rides the same day not having possibility to charge between and currently those rides are 46km in total and usually I end up around 5-7% of battery (yep, it regenerates to something like 12% after a while but still not enough for another 10km...).

Edited May 31 by Magovec

[Magovec]

16 hours ago, padluka said:

I think one of the reasons of such bad range is that you ride faster(faster accelerations, higher average speed)

This is why I started the topic (here) to see if it is a problem of my faulty piece or how it stands compared to other wheels. Finding so far is that it has double the power consumption compared to 18XL but it is normal. When compared to wheels such as Lynx or Sherman it is in line with it (considering the 3000W motor power, 84V voltage etc). S16Pro in not hungrier than such long distance wheels. The distance of top class wheels such as Lynx, Sherman Pro, Master Pro etc is currently acheived not by less power consumption of their motors but much bigger battery they carry, which is outweighted by enormous additional weight. 

The modern hollow high power motors are power hungry. That is the fact.

Edited May 31 by Magovec

[techyiam]

On 5/31/2024 at 7:46 AM, Magovec said:

with one big flaw, which is (from my point of view) the range. For me it can do approx. 50km. Not more. Not talking about +/- 5km, but it cannot do 60 km while normal riding (yes for a case when carefully riding max 25 kph for the whole ride, but which I do not consider this normal riding).

In the Kingsong app, after a fully charge, does it say 100%, and what are the voltages for each pack?

Additionally, what are the lowest and highest voltages for each pack?

[kintips]

On 5/31/2024 at 9:07 AM, Magovec said:

This is why I started the topic (here) to see if it is a problem of my faulty piece or how it stands compared to other wheels. Finding so far is that it has double the power consumption compared to 18XL but it is normal. When compared to wheels such as Lynx or Sherman it is in line with it (considering the 3000W motor power, 84V voltage etc). S16Pro in not hungrier than such long distance wheels. The distance of top class wheels such as Lynx, Sherman Pro, Master Pro etc is currently acheived not by less power consumption of their motors but much bigger battery they carry, which is outweighted by enormous additional weight. 

The modern hollow high power motors are power hungry. That is the fact.

I have 16x s18 and im waiting for my s16pro to come. I have found the battery readings to be pretty accurate (59kg) light weight rider maybe with gear 62kg. I usually get pretty much what the readings say. With what youre saying s16pro it makes sense as the wheel is 73lbs then add your weight. This wheel is 24lbs heavier than 18xl or 16x and bigger motor 3000w and peaks at 6KW. Also has phantom drain becuz smart bms.

I wonder if the non pro version has better battery it should as the motor is only 2800w. But the weight is still a big factor.

Ill confirm when i get mine (its stuck on a boat with customs)