Cutout / Faceplant Metrics

[Kells]

Thankfully I have never experienced a cutout, and I believe i've pushed this thing pretty hard from a Wattage standpoint, but not so much speed out of fear of a faceplant.  Has anyone experienced a cut-out on the MSuper 2?  Is there a hard speed limit that it cuts out at?  Or is there more a Wattage exceeded after a certain speed combination?  For example I know @logos122 has a high speed version and will try to keep wattage under 1000 when riding > 30kmh (correct me if i'm wrong).   Could he theoretically go to 50kmh as long as wattage was under a certain number?

It would be nice to know the metrics, or combination thereof that keep us from face-planting due to a shutdown without learning first hand.

If anyone has experienced a cut-out on the MSuper2, please reply with your model, power, and what what going on when it cut out on you...  

Thanks!

[SirGeraint]

EUC Extreme tested the top speed cutout here: 

On the high-speed version it's pretty easy to get it to cutout at low speed/high torque situations.  Like try starting on thick grass in a pot hole or similar.  It just doesn't have the torque to get started. Or try starting out with a big bump in the way (like maybe a 2" curb).  But once you get it up to speed (but below top speed) it does pretty well.

 

[Kells]

This is VERY interesting because there NEVER was an actual "CUT OFF" based on the metrics there, .  Watching that video it appears once the Wattage exceeded 1200 for more than 1 second (meaning a true 1200 watts average) i'm guessing it over-tilted, even though the wattage then increased to 2K at some point during the fall which is interesting... did it actually ever "Cut Out" or did we witness over-leaning and the 1800-2K watts we saw spike were actually the wheels attempt to catch him back up?

 

[Citi Wheel]

8 hours ago, Kells said:

Thankfully I have never experienced a cutout, and I believe i've pushed this thing pretty hard from a Wattage standpoint, but not so much speed out of fear of a faceplant.  Has anyone experienced a cut-out on the MSuper 2?  Is there a hard speed limit that it cuts out at?  Or is there more a Wattage exceeded after a certain speed combination?  For example I know @logos122 has a high speed version and will try to keep wattage under 1000 when riding > 30kmh (correct me if i'm wrong).   Could he theoretically go to 50kmh as long as wattage was under a certain number?

It would be nice to know the metrics, or combination thereof that keep us from face-planting due to a shutdown without learning first hand.

If anyone has experienced a cut-out on the MSuper2, please reply with your model, power, and what what going on when it cut out on you...  

Thanks!

Yes, I do this and can keep the speed at 20 mph for pretty long distances. However, I'm only this aggressive above 70% battery capacity. When it gets below 50 percent I usually keep it below 15 mph. Also, the only cut out that I've had as occured with no beeping so something else besides a cutout due to a voltage drop or overlean could still happen, and if you going 20+ mph when it does, you're going to be in a lot of trouble. 

[EUC Extreme]

Watt This amount has nothing to do with the engine off. Speed is the one who turns the engine off.
Wattage can surely tilt the front of the pedals, but does not turn the engine off.
Can easily drive to 5000W readings without cutting. Though kilometers uphill.

[Kells]

@EUC Extreme In your video, what do you think made you fall?  It looks like there was no cut-off.  I was guessing over-leaning and it didn't have the power to keep up since the wattage spiked.

Also does anyone know the KMH limit on the 3 versions before cutoff?

[EUC Extreme]

I am sure that it is cut off. I would not have otherwise fallen.
This video is only one version. 43kmh factory declared. It is therefore normal speed 40kmh version.
40kmh version turns off exactly at 40 kmh Gotway Apps by.

Gotway never never never shut himself otherwise than the maximum speed. It is a fact.

[MetricUSA]

...km/h...

[SirGeraint]

On 3/2/2016 at 9:49 AM, EUC Extreme said:

Gotway never never never shut himself otherwise than the maximum speed. It is a fact.

I'm not sure I would agree with that.  Unless there's some other term for what I call cutouts at low speed. 

@zlymex posted a while back that on his back and forth ramp testing he was able to get the MSuper2 to "yield". 

The instances I've experienced are best described as just starting off (launching) in an area that requires a lot of power and then possibly bumping into a pothole or hitting an edge (like a 2" curb).  If it's not considered a cutout then I'd say it gives up trying.  The effect is the same.  I've also known it to cutout during HARD braking. 

[EUC Extreme]

Cut off is different from the ending of torque. Maybe it feels somewhat the same. Depends on the situation. But the end of power feels soft. And if you will be able to reduce the need for power situation, the engine is still running.
But if it should be cut off. Then it is off and there is no help.
Torque the end of the pedal has been still feel.
But the engine is stopped, there is nothing to feel. Pedalit go totally loose.

I have never received Msuper to turn off except for two reasons. Excessive tilting, or too high a speed.

[SirGeraint]

13 hours ago, EUC Extreme said:

Cut off is different from the ending of torque. Maybe it feels somewhat the same. Depends on the situation. But the end of power feels soft. And if you will be able to reduce the need for power situation, the engine is still running.
But if it should be cut off. Then it is off and there is no help.
Torque the end of the pedal has been still feel.
But the engine is stopped, there is nothing to feel. Pedalit go totally loose.

I have never received Msuper to turn off except for two reasons. Excessive tilting, or too high a speed.

You lost me there at the end.  But from what I recall when it reaches the end of torque it also stops balancing.  So to me I still consider that a cutout.  I guess we just use different definitions.

[Kells]

I consider "cut out" total loss of power or 0 watts or OFF.  it appear not to do any if those things in the video, in fact the power usage increased which leads me to beleive it was overleaned and could only give 2000 watts when it really needed 5000 as an example.  It did not drop to 0 which I would have expected it a cut-out.

@EUC Extreme ,thank YOU for putting your own health at risk to test this out.  I've seen this video before and thought about the danger involved, and your commitment to this sport and pushing it to the "Extreme" I respect it and if you're ever in the States and we connect I'll buy you dinner and drinks at the very least!!!

[Yashaya Yasharahla]

On ‎2016‎년 ‎3‎월 ‎5‎일 at 4:43 AM, SirGeraint said:

I'm not sure I would agree with that.  Unless there's some other term for what I call cutouts at low speed. 

@zlymex posted a while back that on his back and forth ramp testing he was able to get the MSuper2 to "yield". 

The instances I've experienced are best described as just starting off (launching) in an area that requires a lot of power and then possibly bumping into a pothole or hitting an edge (like a 2" curb).  If it's not considered a cutout then I'd say it gives up trying.  The effect is the same.  I've also known it to cutout during HARD braking. 

This happened to me on the Kingsong 18in. I fell into a pothole and it prevented me from moving (couldn't advance or back up), so the already high momentum of my body had just turned the casing of the wheel (while the wheel's tire was stationary) over and I fell off. It felt like a cutoff, but I realized I just got stuck and fell over.

[EUC Extreme]

8 hours ago, SirGeraint said:

You lost me there at the end.  But from what I recall when it reaches the end of torque it also stops balancing.  So to me I still consider that a cutout.  I guess we just use different definitions.

But in the end torque crash is not inevitable.
A crash can be avoided easily.
  The engine goes out, the downfall is certain. I think they are two different things.

[SlowMo]

6 minutes ago, EUC Extreme said:

But in the end torque crash is not inevitable.
A crash can be avoided easily.
  The engine goes out, the downfall is certain. I think they are two different things.

What I understand is at the end of motor torque, there will be a fraction of time that you can sense the power will fail while on a power cut due to engine failure, you cannot anticipate the free wheeling and immediately fall forward. Is that correct?

[EUC Extreme]

Sorry, now I do not exactly understand your question.
But the engine turns off the pedal does not have any strength to stay upright.
But if you run out of torque, the power is, however, left, and the crash is guaranteed outcome
Certainly, this is individual how much power is left.

[SlowMo]

14 minutes ago, EUC Extreme said:

Sorry, now I do not exactly understand your question.
But the engine turns off the pedal does not have any strength to stay upright.
But if you run out of torque, the power is, however, left, and the crash is guaranteed outcome
Certainly, this is individual how much power is left.

So you can immediately sense the torque running out and would be able to slow down?

[EUC Extreme]

Yes. At least, Gotway Speed version with 40 kmh and 43 kmh. Any other Gotway models I have no experience yet.

[SlowMo]

3 minutes ago, EUC Extreme said:

Yes. At least, Gotway Speed version with 40 kmh and 43 kmh. Any other Gotway models I have no experience yet.

What about the MCM2s? Have you tested the torque behavior?

[EUC Extreme]

Yes. It behaves just like Msuper Speed.
end torque notice in time, and not necessarily fall.

[esaj]

What I think Vee's trying to say here, is that when the motor is really shut down (no power), you just fall (forwards or backwards), as there's no torque (or balancing-effect) at all to keep you up. When the torque is running out (near max speed), you should be able to feel the pedals starting to angle forwards (if riding forwards), because it cannot accelerate anymore to keep them level if you lean forwards, just keeps running at that max speed. If noticed soon enough & dropping your speed, I believe you should be able to avoid a faceplant.

[Kells]

@esaj thanks for clarifying, does this mean it will not actually "SHUT DOWN" at max speed, it will just put you in a position where it cannot keep up?  If so that is GREAT and provides a lot more confidence when riding this.  I would get 2 beeps and 3 beeps, then fear for my life that it was going to cut power on me.  Apparently that fear is not justified.

[esaj]

Just now, Kells said:

@esaj thanks for clarifying, does this mean it will not actually "SHUT DOWN" at max speed, it will just put you in a position where it cannot keep up?  If so that is GREAT and provides a lot more confidence when riding this.  I would get 2 beeps and 3 beeps, then fear for my life that it was going to cut power on me.  Apparently that fear is not justified.

It will shut down the motor above the max speed:

On 6.3.2016 at 9:21 AM, EUC Extreme said:

I have never received Msuper to turn off except for two reasons. Excessive tilting, or too high a speed.

But apparently not when "running out of torque", as long as the speed is below max and the wheel doesn't tilt too much (45 degrees? I don't know what the max allowed tilt for MSuper is).

[Kells]

5 minutes ago, esaj said:

It will shut down the motor above the max speed:

But apparently not when "running out of torque", as long as the speed is below max and the wheel doesn't tilt too much (45 degrees? I don't know what the max allowed tilt for MSuper is).

So Max Speed on MS Msuper is 45kmh according to their Gotway App?

[dmethvin]

I don't know how realistic it is, but if you lift the wheel off the ground and are good about keeping it balanced you will see that it eventually shuts off after reaching high speed. I played around with my old wheel on a treadmill but it only goes up to 12mph so I can't test the Firewheel max speed on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTEtbzE3njA