The sensation of leaning forwards | backwards: rider moving or EUC moving?

[rcgldr]

When I first started, I just leaned forwards to accelerate, leaned backwards to decelerate, with the sensation I was doing the movement. Later I started to sit back when braking, mostly for dismounting. That is when the sensation switched from me leaning backwards to instead a sensation of shoving the EUC forwards ahead of me in preparation for braking. Later still after that, I was getting a similar sensation when accelerating, shoving the EUC behind me in preparation for acceleration. 

From a physics standpoint, this makes sense, when setting up lean angle, a rider's momentum keeps the rider going at about the same velocity, and it's the EUC that has relative motion to current velocity in order to result in the rider leaning forwards or backwards. It's also similar to the beginner drill of using support and rocking back and forth, moving the EUC forwards and backwards while the riders shoulders are mostly fixed in place due to using support.

I'm wondering what the sensation is for other riders here.

Edited June 20, 2023 by rcgldr

[Cerbera]

I think maybe it is only your perception that has shifted, possibly in response to visual cues, as a result of the way your braking changed as you gained XP. By 'sitting down' as you brake and 'flare' braking in order to stop (where there is more time during the manoeuvre to appreciate the sensations), the wheel seems more obviously 'in front' of you while that happens than would be the case when your braking was less refined and it was more of a straight lean backward. Or perhaps now you are better at it you just have more attention free to focus on the sensation than you had initially ?

3 hours ago, rcgldr said:

I'm wondering what the sensation is for other riders here.

For me the sensations are visualised / interpreted by my brain as constantly feeling where the centre of balance is, and tipping forwards / backwards of that line. But because of my riding style and natural gait, my left leg is constantly in contact with my acceleration pad on that side, and my right leg is in constant contact with the braking pad on its side, then the main sensation I get is gentle pressure in my shins when accelerating or in my calves when braking, and a general shifting of overall bodyweight relative to the intertia point / centreline.

I guess it doesn't matter how we visualise what is happening, as long as we are consistent in the way we respond to those sensations !

 

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Cerbera

[level9]

I have this experience if I'm not in contact with the sides of the wheel or any power pads. That is, if I'm only touching the pedals,then the wheel can easily be 'shoved around'. It's a different experience and a lot of fun; although less safe...

[rcgldr]

9 hours ago, level9 said:

only touching the pedals,then the wheel can easily be 'shoved around'. It's a different experience and a lot of fun; although less safe...

This is how Duf (EUC Army) rides, because he's so bowlegged that it's a struggle to touch the upper pads. In my case, I'm touching the upper pads, but not gripping them, so it's mostly pedal pressure, which is more than enough on my V8F due to it's low power. I do use the upper pads to tilt my V8F left | right for turning, but for quick steering maneuvers, I use just the pedals, (the V8F's light weight at 35 lbs makes it very "flickable" if just using pedals). The V8F does brake well, and had the shortest braking distance from 30 kph | 18 mph in the comparison test video below, but blew a fuse on the second acceleration run, so I accelerate much more gradually than I brake. I occasionally brake hard as practice for an emergency stop, like some small animal dashing across a bike path. In this video, the Sherman had the longest braking distance, in spite of the fact it was the only EUC in the comparison with power pads. Much of this could be due to the rider.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAEOnvDNaYw&t=652s

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by rcgldr

[alcatraz]

That's a very good point by the OP. It's more "shoving" than "leaning". It helped me a lot to realize this because when we're talking about a 20kg wheel and a 70kg rider, it's way easier to move the wheel around than the rider. You don't need to worry about your weight as much as where the wheel is in relation to that weight.

[level9]

12 hours ago, rcgldr said:

In this video, the Sherman had the longest braking distance, in spite of the fact it was the only EUC in the comparison with power pads. Much of this could be due to the rider.

The v8f does brake well, likely due to the mechanical advantage of the smaller diameter wheel. I'm sure the mten would be even faster.

Moment of Inertia: Smaller diameter wheels typically have a lower moment of inertia compared to larger diameter wheels. This means they require less rotational force to start and stop rotating. As a result, smaller wheels may offer a more responsive and quicker braking response.

However a lot still depends on the rider. In the video it looks like the v8f is pulling around ~-0.35g braking.
On my S22 + pads I can pull -0.63g and haven't been able to overpower it yet. Trying that on my v8f I get dumped off the back.