It was only a matter of time..

[The Brahan Seer]

Hi guys,

I had my first over-lean cut out today! Woohoo!

I was going up a road on a hill I have done many times. 66% Battery Sunny Day 14°C Bam hit the ground 20-25 Mph.

Like everyone says too fast to do anything.

Had all the gear, slight scratch on helmet, wristguards/gloves fine, sore right knee but nothing serious, oh and  i broke my collar bone.

Yes it hurts, 6 weeks out of action not good. In sling but no surgery.

Safe rides everyone!

 

[gon2fast]

Heal quick. I was in the same boat a few weeks ago LOL. 

[Cerbera]

37 minutes ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Had all the gear, slight scratch on helmet, wristguards/gloves fine, sore right knee but nothing serious, oh and  i broke my collar bone.

Yes it hurts, 6 weeks out of action not good. In sling but no surgery.

The collar bone sorts itself out on its own does it ?! Speedy healings !

[pico]

Sorry to hear that. Get well soon!

[txwheel]

Wishing you a quick recovery!  What wheel were you riding?

[Tawpie]

Ouch. Rest up and get better. Glad it wasn't worse! All hail the gear.

[Hellkitten]

Damn. Sorry to hear. Heal fast. 🤙🏻

[The Brahan Seer]

14 hours ago, Cerbera said:

The collar bone sorts itself out on its own does it ?!

Usually they do but sometimes if it breaks the skin or there is issues with it healing properly then they can put plates in that get removed a year down the road.

Will find out in two weeks how things are progressing.

 

[The Brahan Seer]

5 hours ago, txwheel said:

What wheel were you riding?

I was riding the Kingsong S18, its well known as an underpowered wheel and I thought I had it sussed out. I had a max speed tiltback at 27Mph, plus it was very good at progressive tilting you back at other times. I always stayed under 15-20Mph below 50%, but thought over 50% still gave me enough power at 20-25Mph on the roads I used so often. I have put on 3-5Kg's weight so maybe I was sailing too close to the wind. Obviously I was. From now on I will use PWM80% as a guide.

Real shame, it has put me off somewhat even though I know the reason and how to mitigate it.

Ho Hum.

[alcatraz]

Sorry to hear it. Do you think you would have been ok if you had high current cells?

I hate unnecessary power run outs. It makes me want to get a HT motor that free spins at 100km/h and then stay under 50. Ride it without a worry. Be it wind, power level, inclination....

I take it 20-25mph is near the max speed.

Another issue is how you can still break bones with protection. That fact alone makes me want to stay at around max 30-35km/h indefinately. Maybe even lower.

[The Brahan Seer]

5 hours ago, alcatraz said:

Sorry to hear it. Do you think you would have been ok if you had high current cells?

I am really unsure. I wasn't leaning in hard at all, just coasting up a not that steep 5° slope. But it certainly could have helped.

 

5 hours ago, alcatraz said:

I hate unnecessary power run outs. It makes me want to get a HT motor that free spins at 100km/h and then stay under 50. Ride it without a worry. Be it wind, power level, inclination....

Yes I think this is very sensible. I really look forward to the next gen batteries where power and weight trade offs shouldn't be an issue.

5 hours ago, alcatraz said:

I take it 20-25mph is near the max speed.

The S18 rated max speed is 31 Mph. So I wrongly thought I had enough headroom. I left the house at 100% charge, crashed at 66%.

 

5 hours ago, alcatraz said:

Another issue is how you can still break bones with protection. That fact alone makes me want to stay at around max 30-35km/h indefinately. Maybe even lower.

Other than reaction times I don't think going slower stops more serious injury (maybe more actually) since we are fighting gravity. Some say going faster helps scrub off some of the impacts energy through lateral motion depending on how you fall of course but so many variables too. So who knows.

[mrelwood]

 

13 hours ago, alcatraz said:

It makes me want to get a HT motor that free spins at 100km/h and then stay under 50. Ride it without a worry.

Speed is one thing, power is another. Drone propellers spin crazy fast, but they still wouldn’t have the oomph to keep us upright on an EUC.

@The Brahan Seer’s crash for example, of course the speed headroom affects the amount of power available, but there was a lot of headroom to the free spin speed. The battery on the S18 just can’t provide very much power, at any speed.

 And you can overlean any wheel at 50km/h with enough intent. I don’t think “without worry” is truly achievable.

13 hours ago, alcatraz said:

Another issue is how you can still break bones with protection.

Maybe instead of protection it should be called mitigation. While it helps a lot with road rash and breaking knees and elbows, bones still break if twisted badly enough. The deceleration from falling is still quite significant.

13 hours ago, alcatraz said:

That fact alone makes me want to stay at around max 30-35km/h indefinately. Maybe even lower.

And the older you get the higher the cost for a crash. Staying under 30-35km/h is definitely not a bad idea. Though I’m not ready to go there just yet… I like my occasional 45km/h rush too much! (When there’s no one around of course.)

[Robse]

First of all, I want to wish you a good recovery
Next: I always felt that the S18 was undersized in terms
of battery capacity compared to top speed and motor max.

Kingsong 16S, Batt 840 Wh, Top speed 35 kmph, motor max 3000 Watt
Inmotion V10F, Batt 960 Wh Top speed 40 kmph, motor max 3000 Watt
Kingsong 16X, Batt 1554 Wh, Top speed 50 kmph, motor max 4200 Watt
Kingsong S18, Batt 1100 Wh, top speed 51 kmph, motor max 5000 Watt
Take a look at the numbers. Something about the S18 is not right.
Too little Bat and too much possible power demand.
Riding at 66% means 726 Wh left on S18  Versus  1025 Wh left on 16X.
The 16X has 41% more power available at any time.
Riding 25 mph at 66% on the S18 is in the danger zone.

 

[alcatraz]

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Speed is one thing, power is another. Drone propellers spin crazy fast, but they still wouldn’t have the oomph to keep us upright on an EUC.

I'm looking at it like this. By staying at 50% I have a greater share of the torque that's available at low speeds. A torque we are better familiar with.

The real desception is to aquire a feel of a wheel while let's say extreme offroading and staying below 50% of max but really pushing it, and then falsly feeling comfortable at 75% of max speed on a smooth gentle incline. Just staying upright requires a fair amount of torque. Add wind and varying charge level and you get unpredictable situations.

Like taking little chances. 999 out of 1000 times it's fine. Then there's that one .... Grrr.

Edited May 15, 2023 by alcatraz

[The Brahan Seer]

14 hours ago, Robse said:

Take a look at the numbers. Something about the S18 is not right.
Too little Bat and too much possible power demand.
Riding at 66% means 726 Wh left on S18  Versus  1025 Wh left on 16X.
The 16X has 41% more power available at any time.
Riding 25 mph at 66% on the S18 is in the danger zone.

Thank you for clarifying and explaining part of my mistake. Over the years I would occasionally get hard tilt backs when riding at lower battery levels at lower speeds so in my head I thought the wheel was very good with its dynamic tilt back at keeping me safe. I had a false sense of security from this and that I don't go crazy hard ever or fast and with my own tilt back set at 27. Well I have learned a valuable lesson. 

[bpong]

TBS,

take your time recovering, ... and of course, trust no wheel.

what can you take away from this experience ?

humility,...

cheers, and continue to have a safe riding season for 2023 !!! (and again, take your time recovering too...)

bpong

[Jonah Hax]

On 5/13/2023 at 9:23 PM, The Brahan Seer said:

Hi guys,

I had my first over-lean cut out today! Woohoo!

I was going up a road on a hill I have done many times. 66% Battery Sunny Day 14°C Bam hit the ground 20-25 Mph.

Like everyone says too fast to do anything.

Had all the gear, slight scratch on helmet, wristguards/gloves fine, sore right knee but nothing serious, oh and  i broke my collar bone.

Yes it hurts, 6 weeks out of action not good. In sling but no surgery.

Safe rides everyone!

 

Did you have your wheel in Hard mode?

 

[The Brahan Seer]

7 hours ago, Jonah Hax said:

Did you have your wheel in Hard mode?

Yes it was.

[Circuitmage]

Bummer.

But that collar bone break is a common injury. I had mine 30 years ago.