onkeldanuel Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, techyiam said: Yet, there appears to be plenty of Begode fans raving how great the Extreme is. It looks like the S22 Pro is still safe, as is the Patton. Both wheels have their strengths. I guess some third party will come to the rescue for the Extreme. Is this Begode's thinking all along? Riders looking to buy a new wheel need to determine which new wheel has the best fit for their needs and wants. It doesn't look like there will be a wheel that will rule supreme in all areas. I will try with Airshock now....it seems that with 280-300PSI it should work out at Softhole and then 115mm Suspension Travel... Will be then on par with S22 which also can not achieve 130mm travel because highest mounting hole is not usable (tire rub on linkage lugs) . As im aware S22 is also true 115mm travel at most.... So would be perfect then for me, but will see... Im 85Kg geared and Soft hole wouldnt be usable for anyone above that , not coil and also not air , since 300psi is rated safe max on the good shocks (some smaller airvolumeshocks are 350psi tho) To be clear , i love the Extreme for its raw offroad Power, it wants to shred as soon as you stand on it....the S22 is nowhere near.... But i want to get above 100mm Suspension Travel for it thats for sure... Edited September 19, 2023 by onkeldanuel 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 12 minutes ago, onkeldanuel said: I will try with Airshock now....it seems that with 280-300PSI it should work out at Softhole and then 115mm Suspension Travel... Will be then on par with S22 which also can not achieve 130mm travel because highest mounting hole is not usable (tire rub on linkage lugs) . As im aware S22 is also true 115mm travel at most... Thanks for pointing this out. How is the leverage ratio curve of the linkage? Is there actually a rising rate? 14 minutes ago, onkeldanuel said: i love the Extreme for its raw offroad Power, it wants to shred as soon as you stand on it In terms of ease of acceleration, Jack mentioned in his video that the Adventure took the least effort to accelerate, followed by the Patton, then the Extreme, a distant third. Are you saying the Extreme is already very easy to accelerate? If you have ridden a Patton, can you confirm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyss Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, techyiam said: Jack mentioned in his video that the Adventure took the least effort to accelerate, followed by the Patton, then the Extreme, a distant third. Are you saying the Extreme is already very easy to accelerate? If you have ridden a Patton, can you confirm? Watching a video of the extreme shows the foot plates are higher than the axle. Hsiang has a theory this makes the wheel harder to accelerate and I agree with this point. Source: the adventure has pedals a little bit lower than the axle. It also has the battery packs going below the pedals like the ex30. Source: electric dreams. So it makes sense the adventure is going to be easier to accelerate and will be more stable at speed than the extreme. I haven't been impressed with the extreme based on feedback and reviews (haven't actually tried one) so I've changed my pre-order to a EX30 instead. The T4 has enough power to do my off roading and the suspension mod makes it amazing, and I just want more range. Edited September 19, 2023 by Eyss 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julianjc84 Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, onkeldanuel said: Ok guys, if anyone wonders, i have testet and measured available Wheeltravel of the Extreme suspension: In the "hard" mounting hole of the linkage the available wheeltravel is massively reduced ! Its very max 82mm Wheeltravel until the linkage hits the rearlight-assembly (unlikely because its more progressive too) On the Soft Mounting hole its about 110mm - very very max i would say 115mm Wheeltravel...(nothing will hit anything) (But Bottomout O-rings are about 12mm and Topout-dampers are 6-7mm anyways....the included this space into the advertised 130mm Suspension-Travel which could not be used because of that ) Soft mounting hole is not usable with an Coilshock, unless you will find a spring with 1000lbs or above (im 80Kg).-->an correct 800lbs spring gave me 55mm Sag at Soft hole...way to much around 50% Sag Hard hole works great with an 700lbs spring for me , but again, as i suspected the Wheeltravel will be greatly reduced to patton-style (its ok but not what it could be of course) , Sag is 32mm (little high for 82mm Wheeltravel tho, but on the other hand it seems ok because the available travel would be little more if the Headlight would be little higher placed) Now i will test with Fox X2 Airshock in Soft mounting hole with full Wheeltravel (will see if perhaps around 200, 250 or 300psi will make this possible, or not) I have quite a detailed drawing of the EXTREME Suspension in FreeCAD Like would like some better detailed photos and measurements. I have taken what I can from reference photos of youtube superstars. These reference images are not that great. But gives you a good baseline to add the real measurements. Can anyone come to the rescue? The current simulated references I have, NOT ACCURATE but based on my reference shots. Fully OPEN ~209mm Fully CLOSED ~164mm What are the specs for the Coils used? and the Air Shocks? Notes: Extreme top and bottom mount frame mounting holes are not parallels from what I can extrapolate, compared to other wheels like the T4 that I am very familiar with. Edited September 19, 2023 by Julianjc84 photos and Details 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onkeldanuel Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 (edited) 44 minutes ago, techyiam said: In terms of ease of acceleration, Jack mentioned in his video that the Adventure took the least effort to accelerate, followed by the Patton, then the Extreme, a distant third. Are you saying the Extreme is already very easy to accelerate? If you have ridden a Patton, can you confirm? From a standstill probably not (the C40 motor is way heavier too) , but once going it just rips (uphill is insanely good) , its impossible to overpower it yet, ridden it already way harder than any other of my wheels (uphill offroad for powertesting) like S22 pro (pedaldips), Sherman S (beeps) or the other ones of course (EX,RS,V11) Thats what i can tell regarding power... Edited September 19, 2023 by onkeldanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 1 hour ago, techyiam said: Yet, there appears to be plenty of Begode fans raving how great the Extreme is. It looks like the S22 Pro is still safe, as is the Patton. Both wheels have their strengths. I guess some third party will come to the rescue for the Extreme. Is this Begode's thinking all along? Riders looking to buy a new wheel need to determine which new wheel has the best fit for their needs and wants. It doesn't look like there will be a wheel that will rule supreme in all areas. Looking for the "best" or "perfect" wheel is a mistake IMO, better to make a list of personal requirements and get the wheel that fulfill those requirements, otherwise you just get stuck in a comparison loop that goes on forever as new models are announced. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 35 minutes ago, Eyss said: Watching a video of the extreme shows the foot plates are higher than the axle. Hsiang has a theory this makes the wheel harder to accelerate and I agree with this point. Source: the adventure has pedals a little bit lower than the axle. It also has the battery packs going below the pedals like the ex30. Source: electric dreams. So it makes sense the adventure is going to be easier to accelerate and will be more stable at speed than the extreme. I haven't been impressed with the extreme based on feedback and reviews (haven't actually tried one) so I've changed my pre-order to a EX30 instead. The T4 has enough power to do my off roading and the suspension mod makes it amazing, and I just want more range. Is that before or after a rider steps on the wheel with proper sag tuning? I think that is more relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onkeldanuel Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 36 minutes ago, Eyss said: Watching a video of the extreme shows the foot plates are higher than the axle. Hsiang has a theory this makes the wheel harder to accelerate and I agree with this point. Source: I think they have to be higher if you want to achieve more then 80mm travel , or? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel1234 Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 There will be soon Extreme V2 - same situation as with V1 master - let me look in future with my crystal ball : - They will redesign linkage as soon as 3th party one will be available. - New Coil shock will be needed with wider mounting slot. - They will chose different mosfets to battle 350A-400A (I would love to see extreme mainboard). - Pedals will change. - Either distribution board or BMS will change so V1 extreme will not be compatible with V2 spare parts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyss Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Rawnei said: Is that before or after a rider steps on the wheel with proper sag tuning? I think that is more relevant. Not sure what you mean? If you're talking about the pedals above the axle, it would be after the ride steps on. 1 hour ago, onkeldanuel said: think they have to be higher if you want to achieve more then 80mm travel , or? It makes sense they would be higher for higher travel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 50 minutes ago, Eyss said: Not sure what you mean? If you're talking about the pedals above the axle, it would be after the ride steps on. A lot of people simply examines a suspension wheel with no rider on it and complains that the pedals are high while having sag from a rider on it might put the pedals in line with or slightly below the axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyss Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 56 minutes ago, Rawnei said: A lot of people simply examines a suspension wheel with no rider on it and complains that the pedals are high while having sag from a rider on it might put the pedals in line with or slightly below the axle. Once again, not sure what you mean on this context. The extreme has a rider in the photo and I've commented that the pedals are high. The adventure does not have a rider on it, but already the pedals are much lower than the extreme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onkeldanuel Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Eyss said: Once again, not sure what you mean on this context. The extreme has a rider in the photo and I've commented that the pedals are high. The adventure does not have a rider on it, but already the pedals are much lower than the extreme Not sure how this should work for an offroad wheel then....the Extreme is almost able to pedalscrape at tight turns already , so its pedalheight is absolutely needed as a minimum i would say --> they are not that high and additional this are 16 inch wheels, so already little lower then an 18incher Edited September 19, 2023 by onkeldanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Clem604 Posted September 19, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted September 19, 2023 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 5 hours ago, Eyss said: Once again, not sure what you mean on this context. The extreme has a rider in the photo and I've commented that the pedals are high. The adventure does not have a rider on it, but already the pedals are much lower than the extreme It's confusing because in the video it's difficult to tell if the pedals are above the axle and then you compare to Adventure with a still picture with no rider on it. From the video posted just above it certainly looks like pedals are below the axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robse Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 how can anybody be in doubt whether the pedals are abowe or below the center of the wheel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julianjc84 Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 3 hours ago, Robse said: how can anybody be in doubt whether the pedals are abowe or below the center of the wheel? Amen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyss Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 But is the shock inflated? I've had a look at a few more videos and I don't think the pedals are above the axle. the bottom of your feet may be in line with the axle at worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onkeldanuel Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 14 hours ago, Clem604 said: Great review, exactly this...the true offroad beast today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onkeldanuel Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 (edited) On 9/19/2023 at 11:33 AM, onkeldanuel said: I will try with Airshock now....it seems that with 280-300PSI it should work out at Softhole and then 115mm Suspension Travel... Will be then on par with S22 which also can not achieve 130mm travel because highest mounting hole is not usable (tire rub on linkage lugs) . As im aware S22 is also true 115mm travel at most.... So would be perfect then for me, but will see... Im 85Kg geared and Soft hole wouldnt be usable for anyone above that , not coil and also not air , since 300psi is rated safe max on the good shocks (some smaller airvolumeshocks are 350psi tho) To be clear , i love the Extreme for its raw offroad Power, it wants to shred as soon as you stand on it....the S22 is nowhere near.... But i want to get above 100mm Suspension Travel for it thats for sure... Short Update: Fox X2 also doesnt work in the soft mounting point: blows right through the travel at the max of 300psi and already mounted the max 2 volume reducers into it....with my 80Kg (180lbs) Need an more progressive small volume Airshock for this....i changed the Fox X2 now for an DPS SV and will try this one tomorrow as an last try and see (should work well but who knows) ...otherwise i Stick to the hard mounting point and the DHX2 Coilshock... Edited September 20, 2023 by onkeldanuel 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabChampion Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 On 9/19/2023 at 4:11 AM, Rawnei said: Just as I suspected, so the 130mm is just marketing, it's the same on all the Begode wheels, that really sucks, so in hard position it's basically same as a T4, somewhere around same as EX30, and that's with same bad old geometry. I wish they could be more honest here and say the actual travel instead of this marketing stunt. So they should be marketing it as "up to 130mm travel" haha. The extreme did feel super similar to my EX30 suspension. Lets see if the aftermarket guys can fix the linkage geometry again to get back some of the full travel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabChampion Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 23 hours ago, Clem604 said: interesting hsiang says the extreme outperforms the patton. Most other people say its the reverse. Its also interesting to note that Hsiang I believe owns a patton himself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 3 hours ago, Cobaltsaber said: So they should be marketing it as "up to 130mm travel" haha. The extreme did feel super similar to my EX30 suspension. Lets see if the aftermarket guys can fix the linkage geometry again to get back some of the full travel Even with 3rd party linkage it won't be 130mm, you have to subtract rubber stoppers, old ones were 10mm (2x5mm) these ones are bigger so maybe subtract 15-20mm, that would make it possibly 110-115mm max with different linkage which is not bad just that the 130mm is a lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onkeldanuel Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Rawnei said: Even with 3rd party linkage it won't be 130mm, you have to subtract rubber stoppers, old ones were 10mm (2x5mm) these ones are bigger so maybe subtract 15-20mm, that would make it possibly 110-115mm max with different linkage which is not bad just that the 130mm is a lie. Yeah its exactly 110-115mm in Soft hole, same as S22 max ....also not the 130mm that are adverticed because of not usable highest mounting hole Edited September 20, 2023 by onkeldanuel 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jimjam.nyc Posted September 20, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted September 20, 2023 3 hours ago, Cobaltsaber said: interesting hsiang says the extreme outperforms the patton. Most other people say its the reverse. Its also interesting to note that Hsiang I believe owns a patton himself For me if you are looking to compare Patton to the Extreme, I think looking at performance is wasted. I would look at other areas to compare these two. Build quality, suspension, smart BMS, price, etc. These wheels are so close in performance you can argue all day which one is better than the other and everyone would be wrong. I like watching the YouTube videos on all of the wheels, I think most of the wheel youtubers do a great job highlighting the things that need to be highlighted. But truthfully everything from design to performance is so close now on all of these wheels in their respective categories, you have to just pick which one suits you the best and be happy with it. Or just buy every one that comes out lol. I get if you are racing and need those extra miliseconds, KPH, etc.. But for most of us, I think we should choose what makes the most sense for our use case. Either way I am glad to see some real thoughts on the extreme. Not the stuff that was leading up to release. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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