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Can Overlean be prevented? (Split from: “Inmotion V13 Speculation”)


Funky

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Can't there be made something in software/hardware. Same as tilt-back. But something that doesn't make the wheel go faster?

Example: Let's say the tilt-back starts at 50km/h. Can't it be made that wheel stops going faster then? Even if rider is leaning even harder forwards.. Wheel simply ignores that input and doesn't go past 50km/h?

If user has went over said speed/power of wheel abilities. It stops right there and then. Not letting user to lean more forwards. Or rightout wheel limits itself - not letting more speed/power be gained? It simply locks itself up at max speed/power number and doesn't go past it.

Same thing as in PC. If it goes over said temperature, system shuts itself off. Or starts working "slower". To not damage the components. Can't something like that be made in EUC. So it never goes past the abilities of the wheel? Simple hard lock at max speed/power?

Isn't that a possibility to do?

Edited by Funky
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27 minutes ago, Funky said:

Example: Let's say the tilt-back starts at 50km/h. Can't it be made that wheel stops going faster then? Even if rider is leaning even harder forwards.. Wheel simply ignores that input and doesn't go past 50km/h?

Well, that’s basically what happened here. Wheel stopped going faster (fast enough). Do you think the end result was good?

 It’s a self-balancing vehicle. Contemplate on that for a while… :P

27 minutes ago, Funky said:

Not letting user to lean more forwards.

That in turn is called a “tilt-back”.

 

27 minutes ago, Funky said:

Same thing as in PC. If it goes over said temperature, system shuts itself off. Or starts working "slower".

Again, that’s already what happened. The wheel was unable to balance the rider due to the rider leaning too hard near the top speed.

 

Edited by mrelwood
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Just now, soulson said:

No.

If you're leaning forward, the only way the wheel can stop you from falling is by accelerating forward. If the wheel decided to "ignore the input and [not] go past 50km/h", you would fall immediately. It would be the exact same as a cut-out.

I mean the wheel stops.. You going faster in first place. There would be no more tilt-back then..

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1 minute ago, mrelwood said:

Well, that’s basically what happened here. Wheel stopped going faster (enough). Do you think the end result was good?

 It’s a self-balancing vehicle. Contemplate on that for a while… :P

That in turn is called a “tilt-back”.

 

Again, that’s already what happened. The wheel was unable to balance the rider due to the rider leaning too hard near the top speed.

 

I get what happened...

I simply saying about the design that we have right now - tilback - it doesn't work! If user ignores it.

I'm talking about HARD blockage. That system don't ever go over said "limits".

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2 minutes ago, HEC said:

Short answer, no.

"Long" answer, no, because it needs to keep the rider upright(-ish), thus accelerate further when rider is leaning forward. That's the whole principle of EUC. What your requesting is equivalent of having handbrake slowing down falling plane ...

You still would have said 15% margin for safety.. As we have now. 

 

You guys don't get what i mean..

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Example max power of wheel is 10.000W. And max speed of wheel is 70km/h.

Let's say system limits the user to never go over 8.000W and never go over 65km/h. You still got the ~15% margin to go over said "limits" to keep the user "balanced". But same time not letting user go past the said 8.000W or 65km/h speed?

1 minute ago, mrelwood said:

 

With all due respect, we do get exactly what you mean. You just don’t understand the answer.

I do understand wheel needs to go "faster" to keep the user standing up - i do..

Can't there be a workaround?

Edited by Funky
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7 minutes ago, Funky said:

I get what happened...

I simply saying about the design that we have right now - tilback - it doesn't work! If user ignores it.

I'm talking about HARD blockage. That system don't ever go over said "limits".

if the system had a hard blockage.. then the rider would fall forward from leaning over too much..

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3 minutes ago, Funky said:

Example max power of wheel is 10.000W. And max speed of wheel is 70km/h.

Let's say system limits the user to never go over 8.000W and never go over 65km/h. You still got the ~15% margin to go over said "limits" to keep the user "balanced". But same time not letting user go past the said 8.000W or 65km/h speed?

That’s how it currently works. The V13 motor can spin 140km/h, but it prevents the rider from going faster than 90km/h.

 There are similar limits for motor current, overvoltage, undervoltage, battery temperature, etc, all of which the wheel monitors hundreds of times every second. And if any of them goes above the set threshold, the wheel slows the rider down by the only possible means it has for doing that.

3 minutes ago, Funky said:

I do understand wheel needs to go "faster" to keep the user standing up - i do..

So how would the wheel keep going faster without going faster?

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Just now, mrelwood said:

That’s how it currently works. The V13 motor can spin 140km/h, but it prevents the rider from going faster than 90km/h.

 There are similar limits for motor current, overvoltage, undervoltage, battery temperature, etc, all of which the wheel monitors hundreds of times every second. And if any of them goes above the set threshold, the wheel slows the rider down by the only possible means it has for doing that.

So how would the wheel keep going faster without going faster?

And as we all know wheel needs to start to go "faster" to make the tilt-back happen.. Duh. That's not wrong in any sense? It's already at limits - lets go faster. :D

I did mention "hard block" at said power/speed. And another ~15% that system allows the wheel (Only wheel) to correct it's balance. Or it starts to go slower by itself? To keep the user balanced. Same thing as 140km/h free spin. And 90km/h riding. 

But somehow it doesn't let the user go past the 90km/h EVER.

 

Somehow i still think it's possible to do that. We simple haven't thought about that possibility?

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2 minutes ago, Funky said:

Example max power of wheel is 10.000W. And max speed of wheel is 70km/h.

Let's say system limits the user to never go over 8.000W and never go over 65km/h. You still got the ~15% margin to go over said "limits" to keep the user "balanced". But same time not letting user go past the said 8.000W or 65km/h speed?

I do understand wheel needs to go "faster" to keep the user standing up - i do..

I'm sorry but your last sentence is contradicted by the rest af the above statement. 

It doesn't matter where do you set the (imaginary) safety threshold, 5, 15 or even 80%, you simply CAN NOT prevent the EUC from using more power / higher current and acceleration if the rider leans forward. There are only TWO possible scenarios:

A. Wheel will have a fixed hard "safety" limit, past which it will stop increasing the power use intentionally. Result? Cutoff with rider's face eating the road.

B. Wheel will do its best to keep the rider upright no matter what. Result? If / when pushed enough to get past the physical capabilities of the wheel, Cutoff with rider's face eating the road.

There is NO a "magic bean" to prevent cutout by overlean, once the required power is higher than EUC is physically capable of providing or artificially limited to use (be it by software, fuses or anything else preventing the wheel's spontaneously combustion), you WILL eat the road. Simple as that.

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3 minutes ago, HEC said:

I'm sorry but your last sentence is contradicted by the rest af the above statement. 

It doesn't matter where do you set the (imaginary) safety threshold, 5, 15 or even 80%, you simply CAN NOT prevent the EUC from using more power / higher current and acceleration if the rider leans forward. There are only TWO possible scenarios:

A. Wheel will have a fixed hard "safety" limit, past which it will stop increasing the power use intentionally. Result? Cutoff with rider's face eating the road.

B. Wheel will do its best to keep the rider upright no matter what. Result? If / when pushed enough to get past the physical capabilities of the wheel, Cutoff with rider's face eating the road.

There is NO a "magic bean" to prevent cutout by overlean, once the required power is higher than EUC is physically capable of providing or artificially limited to use (be it by software, fuses or anything else preventing the wheel's spontaneously combustion), you WILL eat the road. Simple as that.

Yes - that's how it been for all this time. Nothing new have been invented.

I'm talking about that doesn't exist yet.

Edited by Funky
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Maybe consider Funky's idea.

What if the wheel does just maintain a maximum certain speed.....

A rider can lean forward, but the wheel maintains the same speed.....

 

If the rider is gripping the sides of the wheel, or has power pads........is the rider actually going to fall off?

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7 minutes ago, Funky said:

Yes - that's how it been for all this time. Nothing new have been invented.

I'm talking about that doesn't exit yet.

Unless you'll magically manage to change laws of physics, there is nothing to "invent" to prevent overlean cutouts on EUCs.

It's like requesting to make a "safe" car, that will NOT kill its passengers when smashed at 200+ Km/h into large, heavy static object.

Edited by HEC
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1 minute ago, Paul A said:

Maybe consider Funky's idea.

What if the wheel does just maintain a maximum certain speed.....

A rider can lean forward, but the wheel maintains the same speed.....

 

If the rider is gripping the sides of the wheel, or has power pads........is the rider actually going to fall off?

Yes! It’s a single wheel. On bearings. The only thing the wheel can do is to spin the wheel faster or slower. Nothing else.

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What if a wheel is stationary........it is bolted to the ground, unable to move.....

A rider stands on it, grips the sides with legs, or has power pads and leans forwards.

The wheel is not moving.

Is the rider going to fall off?

 

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3 minutes ago, HEC said:

Unless you'll magically manage to change laws of physics, there is nothing to "invent" to prevent overlean cutouts on EUCs.

It's like requesting to make a "safe" care, that will NOT kill its passengers when smashed at 200+ Km/h into large, heavy static object.

Most things we do today was "magic" 500 years ago. :D 

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