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Veteran Patton 16" 126v 2220wh


Mango

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The weight doesn't make sense to me. It just can't weigh that much.

Unless they're stacking 35 26650 LiFePo4 cells to get 126V... at 4000 mAH/cell 4p would get you to about 2000 wH (which matches the machine translation of the chinese picture of the mystery wheel). That'd be 13 kilos of cells (91 g/cell per https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Wholesale-Price-4000mAh-3-2v-Large_1600428153554.html?spm=a2700.7735675.0.0.5b565470cyf38r&s=p), and they're cheap.

I guess not... a data sheet was posted that says it's 50E cells, 2220 wH.

Edited by Tawpie
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Yea, even accounting for the bigger battery, the considerably bigger motor and maybe beefier suspension parts and rails than the V11 it shouldnt be more than 32, 33kg. It does have a much smaller rim and tire after all. Maybe 35 kg max.

Edited by mhpr262
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29 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

So, how about a so called 20” wheel with a street tire? That would make it as close to 18” that a 3” wide tire can be.

Hah, just guess…

I now have a 27kg 1500Wh 18”/20” suspension wheel. Bumping the battery to 2220Wh and adding rebound adjustments should weigh about 30kg in total. Instead, ShermS 16” has a smaller tire and weighs 10kg extra. It’s clear that the weight has not gotten any kind of consideration from the manufacturer.

 How can they manage to make it so heavy?? Where is all the extra weight??

Sherman S has 3600Wh this new 16" has 2200Wh weight difference of 1400Wh 5000mA 18Wh (69g) batteries is 5,4kg, Sherman S  is 44kg so the 16" is actually 1,4kg heavier than S would be with 2200WH battery.  The new motor with more torque may be heavier, but still why would I buy 40kg 16" 2200Wh wheel when there is 44kg 18" 3600Wh with more top speed? 

Begode T4 is 30,7kg (V1) and if you add full Grizzla armour its 33kg, 7kg weight difference is just too much for the trail. And the Veteran price will be much higher also. 

 

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41 minutes ago, okvp said:

the 16" is actually 1,4kg heavier than S

Excluding the battery, the Patton is 1.4 kg heavier than the Sherman-S.

My guess is that Leaper Kim added a cross brace at the top of the two struts. In addition, they may even have improved the battery packs to controller box to struts design for more chassis rigidity.

Furthermore, Leaper Kim may be pricing the Patton to be a less premium product than the Sherman-S, and so will price it lower. Therefore, they may be substituting magnesium alloy components with aluminum alloy ones.

Purely, my speculation.

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1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

How can they manage to make it so heavy?? Where is all the extra weight??

90 lbs weight is certain not the norm for 16" wheels in the past, even when the T4 is taken into account.

My guess is that the weight came from a few areas:

(1) Non-minimal design construction will be heavier; but will be sturdier, more rugged and more weather resistant.

(2) Fork style suspension is heavier. But will be more robust, durable, and should be low maintenance.

(3) Leaper Kim put in a heavy duty 3000 W motor and rim into the Patton.

(4) Added a cross-brace at the top of the two struts, and substituted magnesium alloy components with aluminum alloy components.

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3 hours ago, okvp said:

Sherman S  is 44kg so the 16" is actually 1,4kg heavier than S would be with 2200WH battery. 

Actually it would be more than that. I'm guessing the S tire/rim would be 1/2-1kg heavier than the 16" Patton.

It sounds like they beefed everything up so it could be riden hard on trails... but who wants that weight and with the small wheel it may feel even more top heavy than the S.

Edited by DavidB
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12 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Actually, all of the sudden I'm not certain about anything labeled "safety margin" on LK wheels. It's basically the inverse of PWM and quite honestly, PWM is what matters in the end no matter what it's called!

Yes. I was speaking to 16x safety margin.  The lack in confidence in Veteran's PWM estimates is the reason that I'm hoping the Fatton is actually capable of a higher speed than Eevee's reported.  I want the top speed tobe significantly higher than I'm ever likely to try to ride.  I see 70kph being a realistic speed I'd try to go on this wheel and I want more in reserve at that speed and with a 4p battery.

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8 hours ago, Bustapalapno said:

I disagree. Having ridden all the major 20” releases, Veteran acceleration is limited by more than just voltage. It’s also motor design and software. The speed demons already bought their 134V, 20” wheels from Begode anyway, I don’t think there is much more  room in the market  

There is definitely more money to be made in the mid/small wheel sector. A T4-equivalent from Veteran would be an instant buy from me. This wheel looks to be much larger. 

Agreed, except for the weight.  Fortunately, it sounds like the weight may come in closer to 35-36 kg.  If true, this is better, but still on the heavy side.  33 kg is where I think it SHOULD be.

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According to cannonfly on telegram the image shown in the Eevee's video is an outdated design as well.  He said that was the design from a few months ago.  The current design is said to have some changes to the handles.  Apparently assembly of the first prototype is happening tomorrow.  We should see real pictures and have real weight specs then.  

He also indicated that the funny looking contraption on the side is an adjustable foot lock.  I really wish they would just keep it simple and leave a flat side.  Could probably shave some weight there alone.

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According to this French site price would be 2800€ and delivery june, suspension travel 8 cm, but no weight given...

https://www.blackdealday.com/gyroroue/leaperkim-patton-veteran.html

Price is not too high if its true, but if the weight is really 40kg that would be the deal breaker for me.

image.thumb.png.e75576321d97b6fee52d1de53669e246.png

Edited by okvp
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5 hours ago, Mango said:

Can someone do a welfare check on @Funky?

Ohh Sorry i didn't notice it's 16" that almost weights the same as Sherman S which is 20" wheel.

In my book another heavy 16" wheel.. Which is simply "shit" in my eyes.. If 16" weights ~35kg, i will simply get 20" which weights 44kg.. Because in my eyes the ~9kg differene isn't big difference... At 35kg you will have somewhat hard time carrying it around already. Then why not get 44kg one and be done. 

16" wheels should be 30kg and under. As rule! Yet another 16" wheel which wants to PERFORM like 18-20" incher.. :facepalm: (If it's real weight is 40kg - God forbid.. What's the point of having it then? If bigger bother weighs 44kg.)

 

These are my thoughts about this wheel. :) I'll keep riding my 18XL - which is 18" incher and weights 25kg..... (Haven't seen any better weight/performance wheel till this date.)

 

Honestly i'm simply disappointed yet again! Sure 80km/h speed is awesome.. Bigger battery awesome also. But if end results is almost the same as 18-20" incher. Nah Thanks.

Still waiting for:

1200-1500Wh

60km/h

25-30kg

wheel.

Edited by Funky
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Well I was waiting to see if I jump the price gap and buy a Sherman S or if I wait for a better 16inch than the t4.. 

But seems I'll have to go with the ShermanS.. and I will still need a 16inch suspension. So t4. No way I'm going to buy the Patton at this price and weight..

I'm somewhat disappointed 

Unless inmotion or kingsong surprise us ..

 

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35 minutes ago, LeGiroquoi said:

Well I was waiting to see if I jump the price gap and buy a Sherman S or if I wait for a better 16inch than the t4.. 

But seems I'll have to go with the ShermanS.. and I will still need a 16inch suspension. So t4. No way I'm going to buy the Patton at this price and weight..

I'm somewhat disappointed 

Unless inmotion or kingsong surprise us ..

 

If Inmotion is following V13 build. V14 will be 35kg+ also..

I hope Kingsong will build something lightweight. But knowing where market is going (More range/speed/performance) I don't see their 16" also being lighter than 30kg...

I miss when 14-16" inchers where lightweight wheels.

I'm simply disappointed and sad. :cry2:

Edited by Funky
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Indeed.. I guess we will have to wait for a new begode.. 

At least to their credit they surprise us from time to time. The mcm5 was superb, and the mten4 too.

I don't really like the t4, but as the Master, once we add 600$ of add-on protections and shocks to it, it's pretty decent. 

Maybe they could surprise us with a 14inch suspension??

 

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I am a bit confused by leaperkim's decision with the Sherman S and Patton. Obviously they had a 126v system in the works, so why would they put the higher speed/torque system into a smaller wheel? I can't imagine anyone I know going 60mph on a 16inch wheel, however if the Sherman S had that system it would make a lot more sense. That being said, I don't go faster than 40mph anyway but still. 

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12 minutes ago, MrMonoWheel said:

I am a bit confused by leaperkim's decision with the Sherman S and Patton. Obviously they had a 126v system in the works, so why would they put the higher speed/torque system into a smaller wheel? I can't imagine anyone I know going 60mph on a 16inch wheel, however if the Sherman S had that system it would make a lot more sense. That being said, I don't go faster than 40mph anyway but still. 

I already said before 100v is enough for 16"... Anything more is simply waste (Waste as battery will be drained faster.)

I also don't get why bigger wheel has 100v and smaller one has 126v.. Go figure world is going bat crazy anyways.

In my eyes 40mph is plenty for 16". Even overkill.. 

Edited by Funky
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2 hours ago, MrMonoWheel said:

I am a bit confused by leaperkim's decision with the Sherman S and Patton. Obviously they had a 126v system in the works, so why would they put the higher speed/torque system into a smaller wheel? I can't imagine anyone I know going 60mph on a 16inch wheel, however if the Sherman S had that system it would make a lot more sense. That being said, I don't go faster than 40mph anyway but still. 

I think they wanted to take a very safe step for the sherman-s coming after the abrams. They didnt want another flop so 100v was the safe move to make instead of experimenting with a new voltage system. This however made the sherman-s underwhelming for some and they went with the other large suspension options on the market. Now I feel leaperkim is overcompensating for the amount of people that were disappointed in the sherman-s 100v and bringing out an overperforming 16" wheel at the expense of weight. But voltage doesnt add any weight to a wheel, its the same amount of cells just wired more in series than parallel. The design might just be overbuilt for a 16" platform

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2 hours ago, Funky said:

If Inmotion is following V13 build. V14 will be 35kg+ also..

Its rumored they are going with a new suspension design this time around. The benefit of the linkage suspension design is that it can be much lighter weight than the fork suspension of the sherman-s. If inmotion keeps the plastic shell and understands how much people value the weight of a 16" wheel over pure performance, we might get a good balanced wheel. The v12 was pretty good specs for a 100v wheel already. I also wouldnt mind keeping it to 1800wh instead of 2200wh battery

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14 minutes ago, Cobaltsaber said:

I think they wanted to take a very safe step for the sherman-s coming after the abrams. They didnt want another flop so 100v was the safe move to make instead of experimenting with a new voltage system. This however made the sherman-s underwhelming for some and they went with the other large suspension options on the market. Now I feel leaperkim is overcompensating for the amount of people that were disappointed in the sherman-s 100v and bringing out an overperforming 16" wheel at the expense of weight.

Another possibility is that they rather release a brand new 126V design in a non-flagship model to get the kinks out, without risking tarnishing a flagship model. Sherman Max and Sherman-S are two flagship models released in a row that didn't have crazy many early batch issues.

Edited by techyiam
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Probably the Sherman-S was the "This can't go wrong like the Abrams, or we are broke" model and thus they just used their existing 100V expertise to be safe. It's just a Shermax with suspension. Now with the future wheels (like this Patton) they can go with the long-planned higher voltage. I say long-planned because apparently everyone was surprised by Begode going 134V instead of the expected 126V next step that everyone else has done.

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34 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Probably the Sherman-S was the "This can't go wrong like the Abrams, or we are broke" model and thus they just used their existing 100V expertise to be safe. It's just a Shermax with suspension. Now with the future wheels (like this Patton) they can go with the long-planned higher voltage. I say long-planned because apparently everyone was surprised by Begode going 134V instead of the expected 126V next step that everyone else has done.


The Abrams was originally marketed as a 116V wheel and last moment it changed to 100V on release. 
 

Begode at the time was also announcing 116V but ultimately went to 132V. 

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  • RagingGrandpa changed the title to Veteran Patton 16" 126v 2220wh

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