Inmotion 16" suspension

[Mango]

mod edit: the spec changed and this became "Adventure," discussed separately here: 
https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/32663-inmotion-adventure-a-new-trail-wheel-from-inmotion

 

Quote

 

Code name "Conquer"

100v, linkage suspension like S18/S22/Master, 1800wh.

Leaked info from a telegram source.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by RagingGrandpa
(clarified title)

[Paul A]

@Funky  See above.

[meepmeepmayer]

Samsung 50S - nice! First time we will see high discharge 5000mAh 21700 cells in a wheel.

Worried about the price, but what else is new?

I wonder why they went for a linkage suspension on this wheel, as opposed to their usual way.

[Funky]

Also hate linkage suspension..

Battery pack still TOO BIG.

At least IP67.. That's something.  "Smart" BMS??? Are they really smart??? Where you can see each cell voltage? Or regular smart BMS..

I'm calling it right now, it will be ~2800$. And weight will be the same as T4, around 30kg. (Maybe ~32kg) (My guess about V13 was spot on.) All you need to know is battery pack size and if it has a suspension, to tell the price/weight. As it's coming from InMotion their wheel line is bit pricier.. So yeah price can be around there.

 

Too big/heavy for what i want.  Same thing as T4.. Only with better build quality coming from InMotion. Meh, could have been smaller/lighter..

I'll fix the date - they mean August, not June. Perfect wheel to buy for 2024 summer. If someone wants it.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Funky

[GottaWay]

They've peaked my interest but I bet weight and the delivery time messes my decisions up. Not buying a new wheel end of summer...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nostris]

Sounds interesting. I just hope the suspension is Hydraulic rather than air, and I hope it’s a big improvement on the V11/13 type system…which is pretty much like a sprung seat on an old tractor! 

[Drunkard]

I'm intrigued. I think the 16" form factor will be nice, but i'm fearing that the weight and the price will be in line with S22.. Just look at v12, it's around 30KG and price in most shops is around 2600 Euro. Both price and weight will be more than v12 :/ 

I'm defiantly keeping an eye on this one for now. Hope KS S16 news will drop soon also. 

[chanman]

Looking forward to IM's take on a linkage suspension, see if they can nail it first try. High discharge and high capacity is nice, don't have to make the range and performance tradeoffs. V12HT motor/board maybe, or something new? Expecting cost to be high compared to the T4.

Edited February 4, 2023 by chanman

[avevo]

Looks like Inmotion carefully planned its catalog, to not to have two competing models or "intermediate" ones (the only exception being the V8S... except if the V8S is actually meant to slowly retire the V8F and the V10F). You can bet the "V14" is not meant to replace the V11 (neither to look like a "cheaper V13", nor a mere "suspension V12") so it has to offer something new (the linkage suspension and the high discharge cells). Note that "100V 1800Wh" literally means the V12 battery pack (24s4p of 21700's), albeit using the 50S cells.

* there won't be any "V11F" because it would require some non-trivial redesign. Also, the V11 still hits the sweet spot in terms of "weight + range + suspension".

[mrelwood]

8 hours ago, Nostris said:

Sounds interesting. I just hope the suspension is Hydraulic rather than air

You mean coil spring rather than air? Hydraulics take care of the damping on all suspension EUCs (except V11, which doesn’t have any damping). What differs is what provides the uplift: coil or air.

8 hours ago, Nostris said:

and I hope it’s a big improvement on the V11/13 type system…which is pretty much like a sprung seat on an old tractor! 

While they look similar, the V13 suspension behaves very differently than the V11 one. V11 suspension can be called a tractor seat, I give you that, but the V13 is something else entirely.

 

4 hours ago, avevo said:

You can bet the "V14" is not meant to replace the V11 (neither to look like a "cheaper V13", nor a mere "suspension V12") so it has to offer something new (the linkage suspension and the high discharge cells).

We’ll see, 16” 100V 1800Wh does sound awfully V12-ish…

4 hours ago, avevo said:

the V11 still hits the sweet spot in terms of "weight + range + suspension".

It does, but even as a long time V11 user/lover/advocate I must say that the V11 suspension system is awfully dated. There are good reasons why Inmotion decided to finally go with a tail shock.

 

 And so the waiting for more news begins!

[Funky]

55 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

It does, but even as a long time V11 user/lover/advocate I must say that the V11 suspension system is awfully dated. There are good reasons why Inmotion decided to finally go with a tail shock.

 

 And so the waiting for more news begins!

Doh if you had option of choosing from Sherman-S suspension vs Master/S22 suspension. I think most would say that S-S suspension is way better. Also it doesn't have that shitty "tail" links.

I wonder why they went that way.. All new suspension wheels should have S-S type suspension NOW! Nothing else.  No back tail - even less moving parts.

 

 

And in my case - no suspension at all would be BEST.  

Edited February 5, 2023 by Funky

[conecones]

It's a shame they are making a V12S rather than a >100V 20" wheel to actually compete with Master and S22. V12 & V12HT performance was underwhelming, so I'm not getting my hopes up for them to do much better this time around...

The T4 is already out and will be taking over the 16" suspension category, IM is way too late to the party. They could have also went with 20" 100V 1800WH suspension wheel (to upgrade the V11) and be the only wheel in this category as the Hero is discontinued... What a missed opportunity. 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by conecones

[Drunkard]

3 hours ago, conecones said:

It's a shame they are making a V12S rather than a >100V 20" wheel to actually compete with Master and S22. V12 & V12HT performance was underwhelming, so I'm not getting my hopes up for them to do much better this time around...

The T4 is already out and will be taking over the 16" suspension category, IM is way too late to the party. They could have also went with 20" 100V 1800WH suspension wheel (to upgrade the V11) and be the only wheel in this category as the Hero is discontinued... What a missed opportunity. 

 

That is the issue with all new wheels, they are built to compete with the bigger wheels. That's how we end up in the land of 53KG wheels in the first place.. I'm glad IM is taking it's time to compete with smaller wheels, where the wheels are all older and do not offer new wheel benefits. Dpn't think it's a missed opportunity at all. 

 

You see T4 is already out for a bit and I don't see it taking over the category. And it's because T4 is made by begode.. I will pay extra for smart BMS, proper water proofing, proper protection for batteries.. list goes on. I don't see any wheels made by begode to be viable options until they get there shit together.

[meepmeepmayer]

Interesting linkageless suspension discussion split off:

Edited February 5, 2023 by meepmeepmayer

[Funky]

6 hours ago, conecones said:

It's a shame they are making a V12S rather than a >100V 20" wheel to actually compete with Master and S22. V12 & V12HT performance was underwhelming, so I'm not getting my hopes up for them to do much better this time around...

The T4 is already out and will be taking over the 16" suspension category, IM is way too late to the party. They could have also went with 20" 100V 1800WH suspension wheel (to upgrade the V11) and be the only wheel in this category as the Hero is discontinued... What a missed opportunity. 

 

Market is already full of heavy turds..  

When we look at something small, same time we are looking for something light. Even T4 is to heavy for 16"... All 16" wheel should be under 25kg in my mind. And that's simply because most lightest 18" wheel is also 25kg.

If 16" wheel is 30-35kg. You can add little bit more weight and rightout get 18" better model. Because at that weight point, you already are going into heavy wheel category.

[mrelwood]

8 hours ago, Funky said:

Doh if you had option of choosing from Sherman-S suspension vs Master/S22 suspension. I think most would say that S-S suspension is way better.

Sure, until they had to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars into it’s future… The ShermS suspension is and will be a big unknown for a good while still, and if Inmotion wants to make a durable proven system, I think they made the right choice.

 Besides, nobody knows how good a Master type suspension can be if made well from the ground up.

8 hours ago, Funky said:

Also it doesn't have that shitty "tail" links.

What’s so shitty about them? Or do you mean the looks?

 

6 hours ago, conecones said:

It's a shame they are making a V12S rather than a >100V 20" wheel to actually compete with Master and S22.

By the time the V14 is out, the Master in the above quote can already be replaced with something else. Why try to compete with Master, CP, ShermS and S22 with yet another similar model, when the T4 is all alone creating it’s own market category? There’s much more room in small and mid sized wheel categories.

6 hours ago, conecones said:

V12 & V12HT performance was underwhelming, so I'm not getting my hopes up for them to do much better this time around...

Not sure what you mean. V12 was one of the fastest wheels when it came out.

6 hours ago, conecones said:

The T4 is already out and will be taking over the 16" suspension category, IM is way too late to the party.

Wouldn’t they be even much more late to the Master/S22/CP/ShermS party then?

6 hours ago, conecones said:

They could have also went with 20" 100V 1800WH suspension wheel (to upgrade the V11) and be the only wheel in this category as the Hero is discontinued...

Alone in the 20” ~34kg wheel category? I must be missing your point completely.

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

Market is already full of heavy turds..

Just 'cos something is heavy doesn't intrinsically make it a turd. Sometimes, even on a smaller wheel, extra weight can equal extra stability, in wind for example, and extra robustness in minor crashes, although of course the very same weight makes it more of a liability and danger to itself in higher speed tumbles.

But stuff that is well built and robust, which is what we all seem to be demanding at the moment, is usually heavier, at least until the materials revolution and battery tech gets a bit further along...

Edited February 5, 2023 by Cerbera

[Funky]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

What’s so shitty about them? Or do you mean the looks?

More moving parts..

58 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Just 'cos something is heavy doesn't intrinsically make it a turd. Sometimes, even on a smaller wheel, extra weight can equal extra stability, in wind for example, and extra robustness in minor crashes, although of course the very same weight makes it more of a liability and danger to itself in higher speed tumbles.

But stuff that is well built and robust, which is what we all seem to be demanding at the moment, is usually heavier, at least until the materials revolution and battery tech gets a bit further along...

Someone who needs a specific weight for a wheel - in their eyes all new wheels are turds. (Because they won't even consider looking at them, or even buying them ever.) Yes i get that all steel build will be heavier. (EX20S for example.)

But same time how heavy do you want a 16" wheel? Same range as V13? Duck that.

ks16s ~ 17 kg. inmotion v8 ~ 15 kg. begode tesla ~ 22kg. List goes on.. Plenty of 16" wheel that are near ~20kg range. Solidly built 16" should not weight more than 25kg...

Okay i will include suspension make that 27kg no more! Still look at V8 it's only 15kg. Add suspension, better materials, etc.. And it will be 20kg!

 

I'm sick and tired seeing only big wheels being manufactured. (And anyone who wants so start talking about market that and people buy that.. M4ten is a joke wheel and it sold pretty well.)

Market haven't had any light wheel for 3 years for duck sake. Yet all these "new" wheels in ~40kg range are copy of a copy.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Funky

[mrelwood]

52 minutes ago, Funky said:

More moving parts..

So moving parts are automatically shitty, no matter how well made and maintenance free? Got ya.

 

52 minutes ago, Funky said:

Market haven't had any light wheel for 3 years for duck sake.

I have an idea of your personal speed and range requirements. But considering how much it costs to bring a new wheel to the markets, the manufacturer has to get the wheel to sell well. In that light, what do you think would be sensible business choices for a new 16” wheel’s battery capacity, motor power, top speed, and price?

[Funky]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

So moving parts are automatically shitty, no matter how well made and maintenance free? Got ya.

 

I have an idea of your personal speed and range requirements. But considering how much it costs to bring a new wheel to the markets, the manufacturer has to get the wheel to sell well. In that light, what do you think would be sensible business choices for a new 16” wheel’s battery capacity, motor power, top speed, and price?

Well moving parts are the ones you need to repair most often. Even if you need to repair it only once a year. I still would choose no moving parts at all. For solid reliability.

I personally don't care much about price. But no more than 3000$. (Because i'm buying it for next ~5 years. I'm not changing wheels every year. I bet there are many who do the same. That's why i'm fine with 3000$.) Battery 1200-1500Wh is plenty for small wheel. (Heck even 1000Wh is plenty.) Motor power i don't care. 2000W is enough.   Speed around 35mph would be great. But for 16" 30mph is plenty.

Most important is to have quick rechargeable cells in that small battery pack. Need be - recharge at cafe, work.. Keep one charge at home/work. You automatically get 2000Wh.. Same time save some weight/money.

 

I'm going about weight savings. And small form factor. I'm not asking for 100mph wheel, which can go 500 miles.. For a small wheel ~30miles range is A LOT. Same ks16s can go ~37miles. Yet people are asking more range, more speed.. Where are you going to ride at 100mph? Will you ride 500 miles non-stop? (Then again most people here are "addicted" to riding.) For them 500 miles would be to little. Doh 100mph speed would maybe be enough.  

Most important is build quality. Which i haven't seen in any wheel. All of them need some "user loving". To make them perfect. Doh 3rd/4th batch becomes somewhat deaccent. But only some wheels - not all.

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Funky

[mrelwood]

So, 16” 2000W 1500Wh 27kg 35mph for $3000. Do you think that it would sell well?

Disregarding the wheel size, you are actually exactly describing the V11 here. Except the V11 costs a lot less.

[ssup2406]

16 hours ago, mrelwood said:

We’ll see, 16” 100V 1800Wh does sound awfully V12-ish…

It does, but even as a long time V11 user/lover/advocate I must say that the V11 suspension system is awfully dated. There are good reasons why Inmotion decided to finally go with a tail shock.

I had filled out the surveys they released, had hooped for a V11 replacement, but their strategy seems sensible
My dilemma is should I wait for the V14 or buy a V11 in early-April?
Could y'all please shed some light, will be my first EUC, but I'm okay with a normal unicycle so I guess the learning curve will be less steep..

[mrelwood]

1 minute ago, ssup2406 said:

My dilemma is should I wait for the V14 or buy a V11 in early-April?

EUC launch dates always get pushed further away. So the V14 is probably actually available in the fall. If you want to ride this summer, buy the V11. It’s a solid choice.

[ssup2406]

5 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

EUC launch dates always get pushed further away. So the V14 is probably actually available in the fall. If you want to ride this summer, buy the V11. It’s a solid choice.

Yes, cheers thanks for your reply! Happy riding!

[Hellkitten]

1 hour ago, ssup2406 said:

I had filled out the surveys they released, had hooped for a V11 replacement, but their strategy seems sensible
My dilemma is should I wait for the V14 or buy a V11 in early-April?
Could y'all please shed some light, will be my first EUC, but I'm okay with a normal unicycle so I guess the learning curve will be less steep..

Agreed. The V11 was my first wheel. It’s a decent all rounder. Close to perfect casual cruiser.