Umbrella Insurance Policy for EUC

[Josiah]

I’ve been looking into getting an umbrella liability insurance policy that would cover property, myself or a bystander in the event of a crash.  Or in the event that an officer stops me about being an un insured vehicle operating on a grey area of the law.

Received an enormously high quote from a Warren Buffet affiliate group for a business liability policy that would cover the wheel and bodily injury.  It was around $9000 per year.

About to get a quote for a personal umbrella policy from a broker who will compare prices across the board.  I’m hoping that will be closer to $1200 per year.

Maybe we should all start a mutual fund insurance company. It could be set up like everyone pays in $100 a month and all the money goes to whichever of the policy holders that actually has an incident. 

Here is the Colorado state minimum for car insurance.  

$25,000 for bodily injury or death to any one person in an accident;

$50,000 for bodily injury or death to all persons in any one accident; and

$15,000 for property damage in any one accident. 

Thats $65,000 max per incident.  If we had at least 650 members we could pay lit up to 1 full cost claim per month and when there was an excess in the fund the payments for existing members could be paused.  We need someone to figure this out.  The idea is up for grabs to whoever wants it.  I don’t want any credit for it.  But I would be a paying member.

I’ll post about my findings from the first option and would love to hear of anyone already has coverage. 
 

-Thanks

Edited January 30, 2023 by Josiah

[2disbetter]

Interesting thought. One thing I wanted to mention was that using the minimums for car insurance doesn't really make sense. For one thing a car is significantly larger and more capable of doing damage. I really have a hard time imagining a wheel like the V13 doing anywhere close to $65,000 of damage. I mean I guess it could if it broke something expensive, but as a minimum? Just doesn't seem likely to me. 

[Cerbera]

7 hours ago, Josiah said:

$100 a month

I like the idea in principal of course, but can quite see the administration of such a fund being a total nightmare for the poor buggers that bravely volunteer to run it, and that's an unfeasibly massive amount to be paying every month for insurance, perhaps such that we might struggle to get 650 people willing to do it. I certainly couldn't at that rate. My comprehensive car insurance, by way of comparison, is £162 for the whole year.

Also by way of comparison, my membership of the BMFA (British Model flying Association) is £35 a year which provides up to 10 million PLI for any legal use of my drones should they cause an accident or injury to anyone or anything else. I think we need fees and a system that works at that sort of level ideally, but that is impossible here because it is not legally possible (I am told) to have PLI (in this country at least) for any activity that is not yet adequately defined and classified in law AND fully legal to do.

I don't mean to be pissing on anyone's fireworks here, and I love that people are thinking of ways to help each other in this hobby / community, but history is full of horrible 'lessons' about friend or hobbyist-run 'insurance clubs' and the myriad ways they can go wrong (some of which have gone as far as violence or even included murder !!), so we should be very cautious about such an enterprise... 

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Cerbera

[Josiah]

Great points,  sounds almost impossible for a world wide program, probably same for the US.  Regulations are so tight but maybe there’s a loop hole to get around it.

 Medical costs can be is so expensive that minimum might be a good amount for protection.
 

The mutual fund like an emergency saving account, premiums would only be payed in the initial month and after the event of a crash claim.  The fund could possibly be earning interest in the mean time and actually grow or possibly pay members back on their premiums.  Don’t know the ratio that would be necessary to keep the product viable.  Like if you had two or more  members with maxed out claims in one month that’s obviously a problem.  Also generally, it may need to be a one hit wonder program.  Where in at fault or bad luck cases, you loose your membership after the claim is paid out.  We would need a way of vetting the members for risk level prior to entry.

 

Found this today.

There is a company called Markel that offers a stand-alone e-bike insurance policy that insures e-bikes with power assist up to 750 watts with speeds up to 28mph.

Markel’s electric bicycle coverage protects the ebike from theft, damage and more. E-bike policies start at $100 per year and offer a variety of coverage levels and deductible options.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Josiah

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Josiah said:

Found this today.

There is a company called Markel 

Oh dear - I fear it may be raining on Parade day again... yes, that looks promising doesn't it ?

But what's going to happen is you phone them up to arrange the cover, ask about EUCs, the person you speak to won't have heard of them, so after a lengthy explanation, they will go away and speak to a manager, who also won't know if they are covered. Then follows an afternoon of them consulting their underwriters / legal team only to get back to you 4 hours later to confirm that no, indeed their policy does not include EUCs, and that's the end of that   Alas it's rinse and repeat with every single one I call.

[Roadpower]

Here in NY State automobile liability insurance has historically been very inexpensive, for this reason I always maxed it out. In fact almost all insurance is generally cheap when the government doesn't over "regulate" it. This is not to imply that all regulation is bad, just that price controls and things that attempt to do the business of the insurance company are.

General liability insurance should be cheap but it is completely understandable that until the insurance industry figures out a given area and has real data to work with, that they will charge more upfront. In fact this particular point is funny because my insurance cost goes down without me even talking to them. They figured out that I am low risk, but not just me, people like me. They have the aggregate data to work with obviously.

So I would look at what homeowners or renters insurance or personal policies will cover. Don't waste your time calling them to ask about it, see what their written terms say. Then ask them questions where need be. BTW, look up AAA insurance, they have interesting plans. One of the really neat things about their common plans is that it covers the driver and not any particular vehicle as long as that vehicle is not engaged in commercial operations. So you could even be in a friends car and if you break down in it and need a tow, they will come get you. I know this topic is not about cars but I mention these things to get people thinking and to look at things that they might not expect to be helpful.

[alcatraz]

Has any non profit "community" based insurance ever worked? Historically speaking...

[alcatraz]

Don't you still have to assess risk for each rider and adjust their premiums accordingly?

[Josiah]

@alcatraz

Yes my brother is in a group health insurance program 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Josiah

[Roadpower]

2 hours ago, alcatraz said:

Has any non profit "community" based insurance ever worked? Historically speaking...

This is a fascinating bit of history that I wish a LOT more people were aware of. If they were aware of it, it would radically alter the political landscape on certain topics.

http://freenation.org/a/f12l3.html

[Josiah]

Just put out a request for a few different policies.  One is a renters insurance that would cover liability if I hurt someone or something on the wheel.  At least that’s what the agent thinks.  If I get it I’ll get the specific coverage in writing and post the details and the premiums.  Also getting an additional quote for an umbrella policy and an ev insurance.    All three from the same broker.  

Edited February 3, 2023 by Josiah