Vichtak Posted December 28, 2022 Author Share Posted December 28, 2022 5 hours ago, techyiam said: Just curious, which wheel are you going to get that will be more reliable? Additionally, with any new wheel, you would need to be extra cautious until the wheel is proven reliable. I think the v12 is pretty reliable but mine was not but i will dig more about reported issue next time (it's sad i missed the video of wrong way about his issue) Trying the V12 was the occasion for me to experiment non-suspension wheel, Next wheel will one with suspension. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Vichtak said: I think the v12 is pretty reliable but mine was not but i will dig more about reported issue next The main components of the motor drive system are the battery, motor and controller. Firmware is the same for every wheel with the same version. There are no known issues with the motor, and the battery couldn't be the culprit, it is only the controller left. But they are providing you with a new controller. Personally, I would go over the connections very carefully, and clean the contact of the motor wire connectors, and the battery pack connectors with contact cleaners. 27 minutes ago, Vichtak said: Trying the V12 was the occasion for me to experiment non-suspension wheel, Next wheel will one with suspension. But which suspension wheel would be more reliable than your V12? S22, T4, Master, have more reported issues than the V12 HT. The reason I don't have a suspension wheel yet is because I am still waiting for one to be proven reliable. If you are unable to cope with your V12 HT issue, how are you going to be able to handle the suspension wheels issues? Edited December 28, 2022 by techyiam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vichtak Posted December 28, 2022 Author Share Posted December 28, 2022 48 minutes ago, techyiam said: The main components of the motor drive system are the battery, motor and controller. Firmware is the same for every wheel with the same version. There are no known issues with the motor, and the battery couldn't be the culprit, it is only the controller left. But they are providing you with a new controller. Personally, I would go over the connections very carefully, and clean the contact of the motor wire connectors, and the battery pack connectors with contact cleaners. But which suspension wheel would be more reliable than your V12? S22, T4, Master, have more reported issues than the V12 HT. The reason I don't have a suspension wheel yet is because I am still waiting for one to be proven reliable. If you are unable to cope with your V12 HT issue, how are you going to be able to handle the suspension wheels issues? Your questions are interesting but It's not directly related to the issue I faced. I prefer not polluting the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostris Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 The V12 HT now seems to be selling in quite good numbers. It is hard to know how many people have actually had this problem. I would have thought that there would be a lot more discussion on various forums if this problem was manifesting regularly. And, is this something that only apparently occurs with the HT, and not on the HS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vichtak Posted January 16, 2023 Author Share Posted January 16, 2023 On 1/15/2023 at 3:07 PM, Nostris said: The V12 HT now seems to be selling in quite good numbers. It is hard to know how many people have actually had this problem. I would have thought that there would be a lot more discussion on various forums if this problem was manifesting regularly. And, is this something that only apparently occurs with the HT, and not on the HS? Yes I agree, I was not lucky but their answer and how they investigate is scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostris Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 20 hours ago, Vichtak said: Yes I agree, I was not lucky but their answer and how they investigate is scary. Could you elaborate please. I also saw a YouTube video where someone was suggesting that the wheel can become confused by which way is forwards or backwards. He suggested that, after releasing the spin kill button, the wheel should always be rolled forwards…as this lets the wheel know which way is the front of the wheel…… if it is rolled backwards after releasing the spin kill button, it will then think the back of the wheel is the front, and set its self up accordingly. Wether this is true or not, I don’t know. On my V8f it makes no difference…but I have the pedals set to 0 deg and it has no split mode..maybe the split mode is the problem? What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vichtak Posted January 17, 2023 Author Share Posted January 17, 2023 6 hours ago, Nostris said: Could you elaborate please I don't have more information than the one provided by inmotion in above posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverine Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Sudden acceleration is a real problem: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriskova Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 On 1/17/2023 at 1:15 PM, Nostris said: Could you elaborate please. I also saw a YouTube video where someone was suggesting that the wheel can become confused by which way is forwards or backwards. He suggested that, after releasing the spin kill button, the wheel should always be rolled forwards…as this lets the wheel know which way is the front of the wheel…… if it is rolled backwards after releasing the spin kill button, it will then think the back of the wheel is the front, and set its self up accordingly. Wether this is true or not, I don’t know. On my V8f it makes no difference…but I have the pedals set to 0 deg and it has no split mode..maybe the split mode is the problem? What do you think? Hey guys! I think this might be related. The mentioned video is here: I'm super newbie in the EUC world but I feel like this guy is onto something. So when you think about the normal operation of a wheel during acceleration you put your weight forward onto to front edge of the pedals. When the euc thinks it is on the limit (either set by you or the wheel manufacturer) it tilts you back to move your weight to the back side of the pedals. When your weight is back, the wheel decelerates. This is fine. When you have this 'confused mode' though, the wheel acts as if you were going backwards, even though it not the case. So when you are on the limit, it starts tilting you 'back', however, that is forward in real life. You weight, that is supposed to go backward is going even more forward with this confused tilt 'back' and we all know what happens when your weight is forward. Given that it cannot find the balance this way, it will accelerate as much as it can and tilt forward as much as it can. What do you think? How can we prove this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) 41 minutes ago, kriskova said: Hey guys! I think this might be related. The mentioned video is here: I'm super newbie in the EUC world but I feel like this guy is onto something. So when you think about the normal operation of a wheel during acceleration you put your weight forward onto to front edge of the pedals. When the euc thinks it is on the limit (either set by you or the wheel manufacturer) it tilts you back to move your weight to the back side of the pedals. When your weight is back, the wheel decelerates. This is fine. When you have this 'confused mode' though, the wheel acts as if you were going backwards, even though it not the case. So when you are on the limit, it starts tilting you 'back', however, that is forward in real life. You weight, that is supposed to go backward is going even more forward with this confused tilt 'back' and we all know what happens when your weight is forward. Given that it cannot find the balance this way, it will accelerate as much as it can and tilt forward as much as it can. What do you think? How can we prove this? But if user isn't riding the said limits - where it starts tilting back? If it happened at max speed, etc.. You would simply cut-out right there and then. Because wheel is already at its "limits". It would be the same as if user ignored alarms/tiltback and started to accelerate really fast.. Then yeah i can see that happening. As wheel is tilting you now forwards, making you cut-out. I'm thinking more about this scenario. >>> Most time when you are cruising. You are going at one steady speed. Your weight isn't adding more into front. But wheel starts to accelerate out of blue by itself. Without the added weight that you normally add - when you manually accelerate.. It isn't tilting then, because you weren't riding the "limits", no tiltback where engaged jet. But somehow it start to accelerate. Most people aren't riding so close to tiltback.. Normally "slower", yet somehow it start to accelerate without user input. (Tiltback wasn't even engaged.) Edited January 23, 2023 by Funky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 3 hours ago, kriskova said: When the euc thinks it is on the limit (either set by you or the wheel manufacturer) it tilts you back to move your weight to the back side of the pedals. When your weight is back, the wheel decelerates. This is fine. When you have this 'confused mode' though, the wheel acts as if you were going backwards, even though it not the case. So when you are on the limit, it starts tilting you 'back', however, that is forward in real life. You weight, that is supposed to go backward is going even more forward with this confused tilt 'back' and we all know what happens when your weight is forward. Given that it cannot find the balance this way, it will accelerate as much as it can and tilt forward as much as it can. What do you think? How can we prove this? There are a few problems with your theory. For one, what @Funky already brought up, that if the tilt-back is working the wrong way around, it would create a feedback loop where the tilt forward would make you lean forward further, and further engaging the tilt-forward. This would indeed be an instant faceplant. Much like when Chooch installed the motor the wrong way around: Wheel starts tilting forward, so it starts to accelerate to find balance. But the acceleration works the wrong way around, so it tilts the wheel more, which makes it accelerate even more. The top of the shell slammed on the ground with a considerable speed and force. Another issue with your theory is that the wheel can’t separate acceleration and pedal tilt. Think about it: The wheel only has a single rotating tire, and it can’t do anything else but to spin the tire forward and backwards. It can’t separately control the tilt position. It can only spin the tire. What happened to Wrong Way was that the wheel started to accelerate on it’s own and dropped him on his butt. Since the self-balancing algorithm was obviously no longer working correctly, this also caused a tilt-back in the pedals as the wheel accelerated without a concern for the horizontal tilt angle of the wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostris Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 Ok, a couple more thoughts on this. The V12 wheels are noted for the large number of options available to configure the wheel I do wonder if this might have something to do with this problem. Unfortunately, the operator manual give very little explanation as to what selecting various options do, or is their any guidance given for setting up the wheel, particularly for people who have bought this as a starter wheel. INMOTION should at the least put out some video guides to point people in the right direction. It seems they INMOTION have themselves stated that some mixing of options might be problematic. In my view, the Assistance Balance option seems to cause some odd behaviour of the wheel, as seen in the video above, where it causes the wheel to creep back and forth when the wheel is in the upright / riding position. The No Motor Load option seems to work as a sort of automatic spin kill, it apparently shuts off the motor when the wheel detects it is not on the ground.. Perhaps, in certain conditions, these options could cause an interruption in drive power if the wheel bounces under braking perhaps, and an extreme tilt back, as the wheel thinks the rider is wanting to put it on the kickstand and is ‘assisting ‘ him to do that? Anyway, just a thought…..Both these options are Off on my wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Nostris said: Ok, a couple more thoughts on this. The V12 wheels are noted for the large number of options available to configure the wheel I do wonder if this might have something to do with this problem. Unfortunately, the operator manual give very little explanation as to what selecting various options do, or is their any guidance given for setting up the wheel, particularly for people who have bought this as a starter wheel. INMOTION should at the least put out some video guides to point people in the right direction. It seems they INMOTION have themselves stated that some mixing of options might be problematic. In my view, the Assistance Balance option seems to cause some odd behaviour of the wheel, as seen in the video above, where it causes the wheel to creep back and forth when the wheel is in the upright / riding position. The No Motor Load option seems to work as a sort of automatic spin kill, it apparently shuts off the motor when the wheel detects it is not on the ground.. Perhaps, in certain conditions, these options could cause an interruption in drive power if the wheel bounces under braking perhaps, and an extreme tilt back, as the wheel thinks the rider is wanting to put it on the kickstand and is ‘assisting ‘ him to do that? Anyway, just a thought…..Both these options are Off on my wheel. Doh where the automatic acceleration comes in? No tiltback/nothing. Wheel starts to ride faster and faster out of blue - without user input. (You were cruising, doing ~15mph and suddenly wheel start to speed up 20mph, 25mph, 30mph.. Crash!) Yeah.. Having to many options is the problem i think. Mis matching options - wheel go bonkers. (If you place some options in just, just right parametres. It may make wheel go crazy.) Edited January 30, 2023 by Funky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostris Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 Hi Funky. So, what I was thinking was this…….. If a rider had those two options turned on, and was riding on a loose surface.. Suppose he leans back to brake..pretty aggressively..as the wheel has a slight upward bounce..And the No motor Load option is on…as the wheel gets light..or even a small amount of air, the No Motor load might ..momentarily…cut the power.,as the rotation of the wheel might be stopped because of the braking action..As soon as the wheel touches the ground…and the system detects load again…the weight of the rider is transferred forward…because the wheel was unpowered..but then accelerate at max power to try to balance the wheel again…in so doing..it flicks the rider off the back of the wheel, and then heads off down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostris Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 Also…the extreme tilt back at low speed and low battery could well be to do with the Assistance Balance option. The wheel goes into the mode of being put back on the kickstand. It’s all conjecture..but something strange seems to have happened to a small, possibly very small, number of riders. There are however a lot of V12HTs out there don’t have these problems..That’s what makes me think it might be to do with the various options and configuring the wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 (edited) On 1/30/2023 at 6:33 PM, Nostris said: as the wheel has a slight upward bounce..And the No motor Load option is on…as the wheel gets light..or even a small amount of air, the No Motor load might ..momentarily…cut the power. The no-load recognition doesn’t engage if the wheel is going faster than about 4km/h. It also still takes about half a second to kick in, and to be half a second in the air in earth’s gravity means a jump 30cm (one foot) high. Not something that just happens while braking on a loose surface. I can’t see any other possibility than an issue with only some of the units, which would imply a physical mainboard issue. For Inmotion to imply that some user applied settings could be the cause sounds like a thoughtless low ball to me. Edited February 3, 2023 by mrelwood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post matthewearl Posted February 25, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 25, 2023 I just had this happen to me on my HS. New board and latest firmware. It had to do with the calibration. The wheel started tilting back and even pulling on the kill switch it was still slowly tilting back. (I was not on the wheel). I eventually let it sit on the kickstand then it started accelerating and I had to pivot the wheel on to the kickstand as I attempted to hold the power button down. The button had no effect besides turning the light on and off. The wheel was spinning and beeping around 60 mph and I could do nothing but wait for it to either run out of battery or wait for it to blow up and catch on fire. Not chancing it to blow up in my face, I decided to lay it down and walk away. Once it was on its side it stopped spinning. As soon as I corrected the wheel upright it did the same thing over and over. This time I had the app ready to set it to default factory settings. This stopped the issue and my wheel started working properly. I could not imagine what it would have been like if I was riding the wheel. Accelerating to max speed without a way to stop it could be deadly. After the reset I now feel my wheel is as nimble and smooth as ever. At least something good came out of it. 3 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 10 hours ago, matthewearl said: I just had this happen to me on my HS. New board and latest firmware. It had to do with the calibration. The wheel started tilting back and even pulling on the kill switch it was still slowly tilting back. (I was not on the wheel). I eventually let it sit on the kickstand then it started accelerating and I had to pivot the wheel on to the kickstand as I attempted to hold the power button down. The button had no effect besides turning the light on and off. The wheel was spinning and beeping around 60 mph and I could do nothing but wait for it to either run out of battery or wait for it to blow up and catch on fire. Not chancing it to blow up in my face, I decided to lay it down and walk away. Once it was on its side it stopped spinning. As soon as I corrected the wheel upright it did the same thing over and over. This time I had the app ready to set it to default factory settings. This stopped the issue and my wheel started working properly. I could not imagine what it would have been like if I was riding the wheel. Accelerating to max speed without a way to stop it could be deadly. After the reset I now feel my wheel is as nimble and smooth as ever. At least something good came out of it. You should really contact IM and see if they can get the black box data from the wheel... maybe it'll tell them what happened! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradox Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 10 hours ago, matthewearl said: After the reset I now feel my wheel is as nimble and smooth as ever. At least something good came out of it. I would upload the logs. There may be something in the data that can explain this repeated behavior. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 10 hours ago, matthewearl said: what it would have been like if I was riding the wheel. Maybe it could happen again......when riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rochoo Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 Just want to say thanks for posting this issue with details and your experience with support. I've been looking for an EUC for the past few weeks and really don't want one with unexplainable behavior - sudden acceleration, motor cutout 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vichtak Posted April 10, 2023 Author Share Posted April 10, 2023 23 hours ago, rochoo said: Just want to say thanks for posting this issue with details and your experience with support. I've been looking for an EUC for the past few weeks and really don't want one with unexplainable behavior This issue looks like very rare, if you search for 'cutout' plus a specific euc model you will always find something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yury81 Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 I just had this issue with my new V12HT. I was riding on a gravel road that I usually ride when suddenly the wheel sped up and I fell on my butt. The wheel kept going forward until it fell on the side but kept spinning at the max speed. The ride record in the app showed 79kph while I was riding at max 30kph. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 6 hours ago, Yury81 said: The ride record in the app showed 79kph while I was riding at max 30kph. That's from the spinning when it was on its side. Maybe the bumpy surface somehow caused this? Do you have the latest firmware on your V12? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UPONIT Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 13 hours ago, Yury81 said: I just had this issue with my new V12HT. I was riding on a gravel road that I usually ride when suddenly the wheel sped up and I fell on my butt. The wheel kept going forward until it fell on the side but kept spinning at the max speed. The ride record in the app showed 79kph while I was riding at max 30kph. The side spinning is a known bug in InMotion firmware that doesn't seem to be dangerous to the rider while riding, but still bothersome. Mine has done it several times. The unstable surface speed dump is a bigger issue that has affected myself and several people on this forum. I don't know what to make of it other than to avoid gravel, oil and leaves like the plague. Sand has been fine. Ditto grass. But, yeah, it's a thing I think about a lot. It is SUCH a perfect wheel for me otherwise, I guess I just live in denial like a dummy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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