Trouble Accelerating

[NewRiderV12HT]

Hello, I just got the V12 HT today.
I can't push beyond 3.5 mph standing and 5 mph seated on grass & parking lot, even though my free spin speed is above 30 mph. 
I'm 130 lbs 5'10", similar to chooch tech who has total control of the wheel. Yet, I feel like I have very little influence over the wheel. If it starts tilting, I struggle to make it straight. If I lean forwards, it barely accelerates.
I have my pedal sensitivity at 100% and max speed at 30 mph.
Am I missing a setting? Is this the limit without jump pads? Thank you!

Also, I fell at 3 mph on grass and the screen cracked LOL. Pretty much straight in half running left to right. Insanely fragile.

[Tawpie]

try putting your feet further forward on the pedals... it's ok for your toes to be past the front.

[Chriull]

Hi! 

3 hours ago, NewRiderV12HT said:

If it starts tilting,

In which situations did your wheel tiltback? This should only happen at high(er) speeds, over temperature or voltage or low battery.

In case your tiltback speed is not set to some 3.5-5 mph, beside 

1 hour ago, Tawpie said:

try putting your feet further forward on the pedals

another thing sometimes happening to new riders is that they push their rear backwards while leaning forward - so the center of gravity does not really move forward and the wheel does not accelerate.

You can try this video tutorial series for many more usefull tips, too.

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Chriull

[NewRiderV12HT]

21 hours ago, Tawpie said:

try putting your feet further forward on the pedals... it's ok for your toes to be past the front.

I tried this and it didn't work for me. It made it even harder for me to put forwards pressure. I need the ball of my foot to be on the pedals.

19 hours ago, Chriull said:

Hi! 

In which situations did your wheel tiltback? This should only happen at high(er) speeds, over temperature or voltage or low battery.

In case your tiltback speed is not set to some 3.5-5 mph, beside 

another thing sometimes happening to new riders is that they push their rear backwards while leaning forward - so the center of gravity does not really move forward and the wheel does not accelerate.

You can try this video tutorial series for many more usefull tips, too.

 

I meant side to side tilting. Leaning left or right would probably have been better wording.

I found holding my arms forwards like Super Man helped me accelerate more, though I still don't accelerate very fast. Then dabbing left or right helped me straighten my wheel when it leans left or right.

I spent more time on the parking lot rather than the grass today. I still couldn't figure out how to get from standing still at 0 mph to above 5 mph. I used my car to help balance so I was able to reach 5 mph on the wheel before I had to balance by myself. I ended the day able to go 10-15 mph and do 5 laps around the parking lot without dismounting. Though, when I get over 13 mph the wheel starts wobbling a lot left to right and I'm constantly trying to straighten it.

I'm bending my knees and they feel a lot of strain after a while. The inside part of my legs that grip the EUC are also very sore.

Advice on any of these problems would be appreciated! Thank you.

[Tawpie]

14 hours ago, NewRiderV12HT said:

I tried this and it didn't work for me. It made it even harder for me to put forwards pressure. I need the ball of my foot to be on the pedals.

If you could post a picture of your foot on the pedals (there's a pinned post on how to post pictures) it would help! Yes, ball of the foot needs to be on the pedals so if that's happening something else is up.

What is your tire pressure? If you're tire is low, it'll be difficult to get going because... well, it's low! 25 psi is probably the minimum but I wouldn't go above 30 until you get a bit more comfortable on the wheel—higher pressure makes the wheel more sensitive to steering input and that doesn't help learning.

 

14 hours ago, NewRiderV12HT said:

I still couldn't figure out how to get from standing still at 0 mph to above 5 mph. I used my car to help balance so I was able to reach 5 mph on the wheel before I had to balance by myself.

That's fine, free mounting can come later. For starters, you want to be able to get going and have your muscles learn how to balance. Believe it or not, they'll figure it out on their own, your brain only needs to guide them a little bit.

 

14 hours ago, NewRiderV12HT said:

when I get over 13 mph the wheel starts wobbling a lot left to right and I'm constantly trying to straighten it.

These are called 'speed wobbles' and happen to everyone. The only real cure is riding—your muscles need to get stronger. Accelerate gently to the speed where the wobbles start, then back off. Over time (weeks!) keep increasing your speed and you'll find that you can go progressively faster before the wobbles start. Eventually they'll be very rare. Foot position, body posture and to some extent footwear do matter when it comes to speed wobbles and you'll want to experiment with them, but all that comes later.

 

14 hours ago, NewRiderV12HT said:

I'm bending my knees and they feel a lot of strain after a while.

This is good! You want to get in the habit of riding with bent knees because they absorb bumps in the road. If the bumps aren't absorbed, you get tossed off the wheel. But crouching down too far is unstable for learners, so there's a happy medium. The strain you're feeling is most likely your muscles getting into shape, they're not used to this. You might check how your feet are angled (duck footed/pigeon toed) because you do want to have your knee in alignment. Your feet are liable to get sore too, they have to get into shape as well.

 

14 hours ago, NewRiderV12HT said:

The inside part of my legs that grip the EUC are also very sore.

In general you want to avoid clenching the wheel with your legs. Lightly touching is fine and when you clear the learning phase you'll find you use your legs to help guide the wheel in high speed turns. When I learned, my wheel was flopping back and forth between my legs—it was sketch but it helped me learn to ride by balancing my weight on the pedals. In the long run, that's far more stable than gripping the wheel with your legs. Clenching doesn't help keep your knee lined up properly either, so…

The very best advice I have for learners is to take it slow and limit yourself to short sessions each day. Short: 30 mins. When you sleep, something magic happens and your muscles start to figure things out, things your brain isn't fast enough to process. Before you know it you'll be able to ride straight lines, gentle turns, circles and figure 8s. At that point it'll be difficult to get you off the wheel, so long sessions are fine!!!

Good luck, keep us posted on your progress. Everyone can do this if they're stubborn enough.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Tawpie

[rcgldr]

To accelerate | brake, focus on leaning forwards | backwards, not on the pedal pressure, the EUC's balancing algorithm will accelerate | brake based on the rider's lean angle. It might help to realize that similar to standing on solid ground, to lean forwards, initially you're pressing with the heels, then once leaned, pressing with the toes to control lean angle or return to vertical.. To lean backwards, initially you press with the toes, then once leaned, press with the heels. However, it's simpler to focus on leaning as if on solid ground and not think about the pedal pressure inputs.

Most of the how to ride EUC videos recommend beginner start off with their feet (not shoes) centered (front of toes and back of heels equal distant from edges of pedals, you'll need to adjust for shoes). There's no need to shift your feet forwards to accelerate. For example, when Wrong Way does climb tests on wheels without pads, he actually moves his feet back a bit so that his toes don't hang off, and he stands on the pedals with his heels lifted off the pedals and just the balls and toes of his feet on the front edge of pedals for maximum torque applied to the pedals, while leaned over forwards a lot, although this is something only done by advanced riders, and most of the time, he rides with feet centered.

For left right balance, try riding at around 8 mph or so. At 5 mph or less, beginners normally extend their arms and yaw|twist the EUC for balance (flail arms left to twist right and vice versa), but at 8 mph or so (depending on EUC), the EUC will become stable and balance corrections won't be needed for riding in a straight line. At that speed, turning is normally done by tilting the EUC (inner foot down, outer foot up), which will turn due to camber effect. It won't take long to be able to ride straight and weave a bit side to side, or do large radius turns (even if it's a series of weaves in the same direction), but it will take some time to coordinate how much to tilt an EUC versus how much you lean versus speed and turning radius. On the V12 with its 3 inch wide tire, you'll be tilting it less than you lean somewhere around 12 mph or more. At slow speeds, you will tilt it more than you lean, but slow speed tight turns will take a while to learn, mostly an issue with balance at slow speed. I did drills where while I was riding on a long straight, I would lean a small amount to the side, then tilt the EUC inwards enough to return me back to vertical, doing a series of weaves left and right. Over time, you'll be able to handle more variations in speed, lean, and turning radius.

For wobbles, at your weight and with the V12, lowering tire pressure to 25 psi should help, but don't drop off any curbs to avoid bending your rim. With experience, you'll be able to increase pressure to 30 to 35 psi (I'm not sure what is recommended for the V12 tire at your weight, since I don't know how stiff the sidewalls are). A youtube rider named Duf is so bow-legged that he can't touch the upper pads without a struggle, so he runs at lower tire pressure to avoid wobbles and doesn't do any drops that could bend the rim. If riding on a bumpy surface bend the knees a bit more to get more suspension effect.

I also had some bruising on my inner legs when I first started, and I bought a pair of cloth shin guards and turned them inwards. I only used them for 2 weeks. I also used support to mount and launch for 4 days, until I could ride reasonably well before I tried free mount on the 5th day, which I got on my 3rd try after compensating by leaning a bit more for my only time on a grassy field. Trying to start off by free mounting is tiring and can lead to bruising of the inner leg that you start off with on the EUC.

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by rcgldr

[Funky]

Simply fall on your face when you are riding a EUC.. Same as standing still and falling forwards.... How hard is to fall??  

Try this. Stand up and start falling forwards. Did you fall? Great, now you know how to ride EUC faster!!!  The more you lean/fall forwards - the faster EUC will start going.

Do this:  <<< Yes just like that, but on euc.

As for wobbles. Firstly are your tire really centered? It doesn't do this: ~~~~~~ when you try to spin the tire really fast?

Second try lowering PSI.. I weigh 280lbs and i started at 28 PSI. You can go easy 25 PSI for the start.. I could not ride anything over 30, as i normally got wobbles at higher speeds. Also wheel felt like i was riding on "knife edge'. After 500km ridden i can now ride 35 psi without any wobbles.. Simply start at lower PSI. As you still are learning - Doh. I literally got wobbles at 20-30km/h speed at beginning. After 300-500km no wobbles at all at any tire pressure.

As for pain - get used to them.. After month maybe two. You won't feel them anymore. You are using muscles that you never used in daily bases.  

My starting story: I personally could not mount and start going for 3 days.. Each day i tried for around 15-20m min without any luck.. As soon as i placed my other foot on pedals i fell over. I could not get the wheel start moving forwards.. The 4th day i simply hopped on and did the "trust fall" forwards.... Yes i did that!!!! And it got me going. I simply didn't lean forwards enough. And i weigh 280lbs.. At your weight you need to lean/fall even more i bet. Simply fall forwards really fast when you get both feet on pedals. Later you will be available to lean, start riding with one foot as you place second foot in position.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Funky

[NewRiderV12HT]

On 10/1/2022 at 1:23 PM, Tawpie said:

If you could post a picture of your foot on the pedals (there's a pinned post on how to post pictures) it would help! Yes, ball of the foot needs to be on the pedals so if that's happening something else is up.

What is your tire pressure? If you're tire is low, it'll be difficult to get going because... well, it's low! 25 psi is probably the minimum but I wouldn't go above 30 until you get a bit more comfortable on the wheel—higher pressure makes the wheel more sensitive to steering input and that doesn't help learning.

 

That's fine, free mounting can come later. For starters, you want to be able to get going and have your muscles learn how to balance. Believe it or not, they'll figure it out on their own, your brain only needs to guide them a little bit.

 

These are called 'speed wobbles' and happen to everyone. The only real cure is riding—your muscles need to get stronger. Accelerate gently to the speed where the wobbles start, then back off. Over time (weeks!) keep increasing your speed and you'll find that you can go progressively faster before the wobbles start. Eventually they'll be very rare. Foot position, body posture and to some extent footwear do matter when it comes to speed wobbles and you'll want to experiment with them, but all that comes later.

 

This is good! You want to get in the habit of riding with bent knees because they absorb bumps in the road. If the bumps aren't absorbed, you get tossed off the wheel. But crouching down too far is unstable for learners, so there's a happy medium. The strain you're feeling is most likely your muscles getting into shape, they're not used to this. You might check how your feet are angled (duck footed/pigeon toed) because you do want to have your knee in alignment. Your feet are liable to get sore too, they have to get into shape as well.

 

In general you want to avoid clenching the wheel with your legs. Lightly touching is fine and when you clear the learning phase you'll find you use your legs to help guide the wheel in high speed turns. When I learned, my wheel was flopping back and forth between my legs—it was sketch but it helped me learn to ride by balancing my weight on the pedals. In the long run, that's far more stable than gripping the wheel with your legs. Clenching doesn't help keep your knee lined up properly either, so…

The very best advice I have for learners is to take it slow and limit yourself to short sessions each day. Short: 30 mins. When you sleep, something magic happens and your muscles start to figure things out, things your brain isn't fast enough to process. Before you know it you'll be able to ride straight lines, gentle turns, circles and figure 8s. At that point it'll be difficult to get you off the wheel, so long sessions are fine!!!

Good luck, keep us posted on your progress. Everyone can do this if they're stubborn enough.

I changed it from 35 to 25 PSI.

While I practiced turning, I focused on combining where I put pressure on my feet, heel vs toe, and leaning. Now I feel confident in my ability to turn. That plus practicing Carving were super helpful for when I tried to learn braking to 0 mph and dismounting, as well as mounting and accelerating from 0 mph.

I can go 25 mph per hour now. I realized that the speed wobbles occur when I transition from accelerating to neutral/decelerating because the wheel wasn't touching either foot during the transition. So I focused on keeping at least 1 of my legs touching the wheel's body so that it didn't wobble. Which helped a lot. Clenching the wheel or just applying more weight to 1 pedal were both effective, but clenching was certainly less effective.

I did 90 minutes day 1, 90 minutes day 2, skipped day 3, 120 minutes day 3. 

I feel pretty confident in my riding ability now. I mainly need to perfect my stopping + dismounting and mounting + accelerating now.

On 10/1/2022 at 2:37 PM, rcgldr said:

To accelerate | brake, focus on leaning forwards | backwards, not on the pedal pressure, the EUC's balancing algorithm will accelerate | brake based on the rider's lean angle. It might help to realize that similar to standing on solid ground, to lean forwards, initially you're pressing with the heels, then once leaned, pressing with the toes to control lean angle or return to vertical.. To lean backwards, initially you press with the toes, then once leaned, press with the heels. However, it's simpler to focus on leaning as if on solid ground and not think about the pedal pressure inputs.

Most of the how to ride EUC videos recommend beginner start off with their feet (not shoes) centered (front of toes and back of heels equal distant from edges of pedals, you'll need to adjust for shoes). There's no need to shift your feet forwards to accelerate. For example, when Wrong Way does climb tests on wheels without pads, he actually moves his feet back a bit so that his toes don't hang off, and he stands on the pedals with his heels lifted off the pedals and just the balls and toes of his feet on the front edge of pedals for maximum torque applied to the pedals, while leaned over forwards a lot, although this is something only done by advanced riders, and most of the time, he rides with feet centered.

For left right balance, try riding at around 8 mph or so. At 5 mph or less, beginners normally extend their arms and yaw|twist the EUC for balance (flail arms left to twist right and vice versa), but at 8 mph or so (depending on EUC), the EUC will become stable and balance corrections won't be needed for riding in a straight line. At that speed, turning is normally done by tilting the EUC (inner foot down, outer foot up), which will turn due to camber effect. It won't take long to be able to ride straight and weave a bit side to side, or do large radius turns (even if it's a series of weaves in the same direction), but it will take some time to coordinate how much to tilt an EUC versus how much you lean versus speed and turning radius. On the V12 with its 3 inch wide tire, you'll be tilting it less than you lean somewhere around 12 mph or more. At slow speeds, you will tilt it more than you lean, but slow speed tight turns will take a while to learn, mostly an issue with balance at slow speed. I did drills where while I was riding on a long straight, I would lean a small amount to the side, then tilt the EUC inwards enough to return me back to vertical, doing a series of weaves left and right. Over time, you'll be able to handle more variations in speed, lean, and turning radius.

For wobbles, at your weight and with the V12, lowering tire pressure to 25 psi should help, but don't drop off any curbs to avoid bending your rim. With experience, you'll be able to increase pressure to 30 to 35 psi (I'm not sure what is recommended for the V12 tire at your weight, since I don't know how stiff the sidewalls are). A youtube rider named Duf is so bow-legged that he can't touch the upper pads without a struggle, so he runs at lower tire pressure to avoid wobbles and doesn't do any drops that could bend the rim. If riding on a bumpy surface bend the knees a bit more to get more suspension effect.

I also had some bruising on my inner legs when I first started, and I bought a pair of cloth shin guards and turned them inwards. I only used them for 2 weeks. I also used support to mount and launch for 4 days, until I could ride reasonably well before I tried free mount on the 5th day, which I got on my 3rd try after compensating by leaning a bit more for my only time on a grassy field. Trying to start off by free mounting is tiring and can lead to bruising of the inner leg that you start off with on the EUC.

 

Focusing on leaning forwards/backwards was certainly effective. I needed to have faith in the wheel.

Balancing left/right was certainly much easier at 10 mph vs 3. The mention of inner foot down, outer foot up was helpful for turning.

I think going from 35 to 25 PSI helped. Chooch Tech on YT uses 25 PSI all the time, even while trail riding and such. He said the V12 HT reinforced rim + low rider weight was enough to make 25 PSI viable. So I don't think I'll need to increase my PSI beyond 25.

My legs don't feel bad today. I can still feel a bit of pain when I touch them, but not much. Hopefully Jump Pads will help. As well as muscle build up. 

Turning practice and Carving practice were super helpful for when I tried free mounting. I got it on my 1st try today! Though I'm still working on being able to do it consistently and quickly.

On 10/1/2022 at 2:54 PM, Funky said:

Simply fall on your face when you are riding a EUC.. Same as standing still and falling forwards.... How hard is to fall??  

Try this. Stand up and start falling forwards. Did you fall? Great, now you know how to ride EUC faster!!!  The more you lean/fall forwards - the faster EUC will start going.

Do this:  <<< Yes just like that, but on euc.

As for wobbles. Firstly are your tire really centered? It doesn't do this: ~~~~~~ when you try to spin the tire really fast?

Second try lowering PSI.. I weigh 280lbs and i started at 28 PSI. You can go easy 25 PSI for the start.. I could not ride anything over 30, as i normally got wobbles at higher speeds. Also wheel felt like i was riding on "knife edge'. After 500km ridden i can now ride 35 psi without any wobbles.. Simply start at lower PSI. As you still are learning - Doh. I literally got wobbles at 20-30km/h speed at beginning. After 300-500km no wobbles at all at any tire pressure.

As for pain - get used to them.. After month maybe two. You won't feel them anymore. You are using muscles that you never used in daily bases.  

My starting story: I personally could not mount and start going for 3 days.. Each day i tried for around 15-20m min without any luck.. As soon as i placed my other foot on pedals i fell over. I could not get the wheel start moving forwards.. The 4th day i simply hopped on and did the "trust fall" forwards.... Yes i did that!!!! And it got me going. I simply didn't lean forwards enough. And i weigh 280lbs.. At your weight you need to lean/fall even more i bet. Simply fall forwards really fast when you get both feet on pedals. Later you will be available to lean, start riding with one foot as you place second foot in position.

It's hard to have faith that the wheel would catch me, but once I did I was able to easily accelerate. 

I checked and my tire is centered. The problem was that I didn't keep a leg touching the wheel, so it kept bouncing between them.

25 PSI was helpful.

Yeah, I need to lean a lot to control the wheel. 

 

Thanks all!

[Funky]

6 hours ago, NewRiderV12HT said:

I changed it from 35 to 25 PSI.

While I practiced turning, I focused on combining where I put pressure on my feet, heel vs toe, and leaning. Now I feel confident in my ability to turn. That plus practicing Carving were super helpful for when I tried to learn braking to 0 mph and dismounting, as well as mounting and accelerating from 0 mph.

I can go 25 mph per hour now. I realized that the speed wobbles occur when I transition from accelerating to neutral/decelerating because the wheel wasn't touching either foot during the transition. So I focused on keeping at least 1 of my legs touching the wheel's body so that it didn't wobble. Which helped a lot. Clenching the wheel or just applying more weight to 1 pedal were both effective, but clenching was certainly less effective.

I did 90 minutes day 1, 90 minutes day 2, skipped day 3, 120 minutes day 3. 

I feel pretty confident in my riding ability now. I mainly need to perfect my stopping + dismounting and mounting + accelerating now.

Focusing on leaning forwards/backwards was certainly effective. I needed to have faith in the wheel.

Balancing left/right was certainly much easier at 10 mph vs 3. The mention of inner foot down, outer foot up was helpful for turning.

I think going from 35 to 25 PSI helped. Chooch Tech on YT uses 25 PSI all the time, even while trail riding and such. He said the V12 HT reinforced rim + low rider weight was enough to make 25 PSI viable. So I don't think I'll need to increase my PSI beyond 25.

My legs don't feel bad today. I can still feel a bit of pain when I touch them, but not much. Hopefully Jump Pads will help. As well as muscle build up. 

Turning practice and Carving practice were super helpful for when I tried free mounting. I got it on my 1st try today! Though I'm still working on being able to do it consistently and quickly.

It's hard to have faith that the wheel would catch me, but once I did I was able to easily accelerate. 

I checked and my tire is centered. The problem was that I didn't keep a leg touching the wheel, so it kept bouncing between them.

25 PSI was helpful.

Yeah, I need to lean a lot to control the wheel. 

 

Thanks all!

There ya go.  

25mph or 25km/h already going? If it's really "mph", i would highly recommend slowing down. At least till you got 300-500km range under your belt. Also what protection gear do you use? In any "new" ridder case, i would keep max riding speed closer to ~20mph, ~30km/h..

[NewRiderV12HT]

16 hours ago, Funky said:

There ya go.  

25mph or 25km/h already going? If it's really "mph", i would highly recommend slowing down. At least till you got 300-500km range under your belt. Also what protection gear do you use? In any "new" ridder case, i would keep max riding speed closer to ~20mph, ~30km/h..

25 mph max speed. I'm still riding in the parking lot and only reach that speed when I'm practicing braking. I'm usually going 15 mph. Luckily I haven't had any falls yet, but have certainly jumped off of the wheel a couple times.

I'm using Triple Eight skateboard helmet, wrist + elbow + knee guard. I already ordered motocross & motorcycle safety gear, but I'm waiting on it to arrive. I'm not going to go any faster till then.

[MrEUCMan]

To move forward, do the MJ

Edited October 4, 2022 by MrEUCMan

[Funky]

10 hours ago, NewRiderV12HT said:

25 mph max speed. I'm still riding in the parking lot and only reach that speed when I'm practicing braking. I'm usually going 15 mph. Luckily I haven't had any falls yet, but have certainly jumped off of the wheel a couple times.

I'm using Triple Eight skateboard helmet, wrist + elbow + knee guard. I already ordered motocross & motorcycle safety gear, but I'm waiting on it to arrive. I'm not going to go any faster till then.

I personally didn't have any gear when i "learned". Doh when i started to go faster than running speed. I figured i need at least some gear.

I hope you ordered also full face helmet. Much better protection vs open chin ones.

[NewRiderV12HT]

12 hours ago, Funky said:

I personally didn't have any gear when i "learned". Doh when i started to go faster than running speed. I figured i need at least some gear.

I hope you ordered also full face helmet. Much better protection vs open chin ones.

Motocross helmet with the best Motorcycle safety certifications. 

https://leatt.com/us/product/helmet-kit-moto-9-5-carbon-v22?selected-color=5440

"Certified and tested: DOT+ New 2021 ECE 22.06 and exceeds new FIM standards"

[Funky]

10 hours ago, NewRiderV12HT said:

Motocross helmet with the best Motorcycle safety certifications. 

https://leatt.com/us/product/helmet-kit-moto-9-5-carbon-v22?selected-color=5440

"Certified and tested: DOT+ New 2021 ECE 22.06 and exceeds new FIM standards"

Nice. (Link doesn't work, but i found it in google.) I got the "cheaper"  https://www.oneal.eu/en/o-neal-3srs-helmet-attack-2-0-v-20-black-neon-yellow

Doh if i would have to buy again, i would have bought more "rounded" helmet. Rounded helmet will slide more.. Mine and your helmets have "corners" that would catch on ground, etc.. Especially the chin part - if you think about it..

Edited October 5, 2022 by Funky