RagingGrandpa Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 28 minutes ago, Freeforester said: might the thread title better be changed to reflect the recently upped voltage? @Greg X pretty please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbrunoeuc Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 The competition between Sherman S and Commander Pro got an interesting turn with the change to 134,4V. If the price is hot and there is more metal under the hood than the mass of plastic in the Sherman S... Probably a win for X bull... What do you think? I saw a teardown video of the Sherman S from eevees and there is to much plastic for me especially the U frame and also the need to dismount the whole thing to change a tire doesn't look appealing to me. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, alexbrunoeuc said: If the price is hot and there is more metal under the hood than the mass of plastic in the Sherman S... Probably a win for X bull... What do you think? I saw a teardown video of the Sherman S from eevees and there is to much plastic for me especially the U frame and also the need to dismount the whole thing to change a tire doesn't look appealing to me. Well, the Commander Pro is a copycat of the Sherman-S. They both use front fork suspension design. Can't see how the Commander Pro is going to be easier to change tire on. Additionally, the Sherman-S is mostly metal. Not sure how the Pro is going to be better in this regard. Due to the 134.4V motor drive system, and similar pricing, it is perhaps more interesting compare the Commander Pro to the EX30. Edited November 23, 2022 by techyiam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 2 hours ago, alexbrunoeuc said: The competition between Sherman S and Commander Pro got an interesting turn with the change to 134,4V. If the price is hot and there is more metal under the hood than the mass of plastic in the Sherman S... Probably a win for X bull... What do you think? I saw a teardown video of the Sherman S from eevees and there is to much plastic for me especially the U frame and also the need to dismount the whole thing to change a tire doesn't look appealing to me. Don't forget suspension, they are suspension wheels after all and I think people should focus/be more critical of that aspect on these wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbrunoeuc Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 3 hours ago, techyiam said: Well, the Commander Pro is a copycat of the Sherman-S. They both use front fork suspension design. Can't see how the Commander Pro is going to be easy to change tire on. Additionally, the Sherman-S is mostly metal. Not sure how the Pro is going to be better in this regard. Due to the 134.4V motor drive system, and similar pricing, it is perhaps more interesting compare the Commander Pro to the EX30. Yeah, but for me there are more similarities between Sherman S and Commander Pro. suspension big sideplates/covers metal (no fairing system needed like on EX30) batteries look/design optics I don't really like the look of the EX30 even though it is very similar to my master. Also not quite sure about waterproofing on this thing (except from the motor). 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbrunoeuc Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 2 hours ago, Rawnei said: Don't forget suspension, they are suspension wheels after all and I think people should focus/be more critical of that aspect on these wheels. I would use it as a daily rider or long distance cruiser. No need for a sporty suspension just no bottoming out like on my master please (and hopefully durable design or easy to replace). Even a soft hovercraft feel would be ok. In which points are you mostly interested? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg X Posted November 23, 2022 Author Share Posted November 23, 2022 (edited) Edited November 23, 2022 by Greg X 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 43 minutes ago, alexbrunoeuc said: Yeah, but for me there are more similarities between Sherman S and Commander Pro. It is a copycat. If the build quality of the Commander Pro is subpar, it may even be considered a Chinese knockoff of a Chinese product. 🙂 If the build quality, weatherproofing, and durability of the Commander Pro is close enough to the Sherman-S, then for some, it is a no brainer to get the Commander Pro, since it has a lower price, 134.4V, CNC Honey Comb pedals, and a higher free spin speed of 112 km/h. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Greg X Posted November 23, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted November 23, 2022 photo from Alienrides, shock absorber used in CommanderPro 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbrunoeuc Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 1 hour ago, techyiam said: It is a copycat. If the build quality of the Commander Pro is subpar, it may even be considered a Chinese knockoff of a Chinese product. 🙂 If the build quality, weatherproofing, and durability of the Commander Pro is close enough to the Sherman-S, then for some, it is a no brainer to get the Commander Pro, since it has a lower price, 134.4V, CNC Honey Comb pedals, and a higher free spin speed of 112 km/h. It's impressive how fast they can pull off such things 😅. I definitely prefer the commander cause I life in the austrian alps (mountains, steep hills,...) and need extra power to come around. (price, pedals are ofc a big plus) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbrunoeuc Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Greg X said: photo from Alienrides, shock absorber used in CommanderPro If they work properly with not to much slack/play I'm ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 2 hours ago, alexbrunoeuc said: I would use it as a daily rider or long distance cruiser. No need for a sporty suspension just no bottoming out like on my master please (and hopefully durable design or easy to replace). Even a soft hovercraft feel would be ok. In which points are you mostly interested? Good suspension opens up many new possibilities while crappy suspension is just more limits things you cannot do, but of course it doesn't apply to everyone depends on what type of riding you do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 26 minutes ago, alexbrunoeuc said: It's impressive how fast they can pull off such things I have to give them credit for that. No other euc manufacturer can compete with that. However, for me at least, is why don't they charge the same or a bit more to build a Sherman-S with a 134.4V motor drive system. Why does Begode continues to marginalize quality, and weather proofing is hard to understand, especially when they are doing a copycat. It's like they can't seem to be able to move away from making cheap Chinese knockoffs. It's such a big shame. Having said that, we haven't seen everything yet, it is still a bit premature to draw conclusions. But the low price is a negative indicator when it comes to Gotway/Begode unfortunately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbrunoeuc Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 9 minutes ago, techyiam said: I have to give them credit for that. No other euc manufacturer can compete with that. However, for me at least, is why don't they charge the same or a bit more to build a Sherman-S with a 134.4V motor drive system. Why does Begode continues to marginalize quality, and weather proofing is hard to understand, especially when they are doing a copycat. It's like they can't seem to be able to move away from making cheap Chinese knockoffs. It's such a big shame. Having said that, we haven't seen everything yet, it is still a bit premature to draw conclusions. But the low price is a negative indicator when it comes to Gotway/Begode unfortunately. If they would just make half the wheels per year and concentrate more on the details. Price is around the same as master (don't know exact pricing in your countries.). Bigger battery plus speakers and sideshell should add some more $ I guess. I'm not swimming in money so low price is good but not the low quality that may come with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, alexbrunoeuc said: I'm not swimming in money so low price is good but not the low quality that may come with it. That is other point. On the Master, don't you have to spend more to get it working properly. And if you have a small crash, again you have to spend more money. Also, low price doesn't necessarily translate to high value. Sure, I all for high value. But I am also interested in total cost of ownership. For my V12 after it has been sorted out, all I have do now is just recharge, and replace tire when it gets worn. I have never had to do any repairs on my V12 so far for all the crashes I have been in. And the V12 performs better than when it was new, and still feels fresh and not degraded. Whereas, my T3 has degraded even with less mileage. But you do have a point. Compared to the Master, the Commander Pro could well be the better deal. Edited November 23, 2022 by techyiam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbrunoeuc Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 1 hour ago, techyiam said: That is other point. On the Master, don't you have to spend more to get it working properly. And if you have a small crash, again you have to spend more money. Also, low price doesn't necessarily translate to high value. Sure, I all for high value. But I am also interested in total cost of ownership. For my V12 after it has been sorted out, all I have do now is just recharge, and replace tire when it gets worn. I have never had to do any repairs on my V12 so far for all the crashes I have been in. And the V12 performs better than when it was new, and still feels fresh and not degraded. Whereas, my T3 has degraded even with less mileage. But you do have a point. Compared to the Master, the Commander Pro could well be the better deal. I do have a Master plus Grizzla fairing system plus grizzla power pads and probably be going to change to a spring coil this winter. This is a lot to upgrade a wheel for 3000€. But, it has all the power I need and I even love the original knobby tire. So much fun on mountain trails ( or e hiking as I call it). Commander Pro could be a Master with no upgrades needed plus a bigger battery and speakers(which I really don't care about). Also it looks more durable. Yet still pricing is scary low in comparison. I bet that V12 rides well 😃 HS or HT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 2 hours ago, alexbrunoeuc said: Commander Pro could be a Master with no upgrades needed plus a bigger battery and speakers(which I really don't care about). Also it looks more durable. Yet still pricing is scary low in comparison. If the build quality and weather proofing is not worse than the Master, then the Commander Pro is a steal for sure. Those extra 1.2 kWh of Samsung 50E cells, CNC pedals, and the magnesium alloy side panels cost money. It is a very simple design, so if the suspension struts are of sufficient quality, then the Commander Pro should not need much mod if any to be a complete wheel. At GT King Store (Ali Express), the price is certainly attractive. I have the V12 HS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aze man Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 (edited) Please do not forget that higher voltage means higher speed or faster acceleration but not necessarily better hillclimbing or sustainability. If a 100V wheel is good designed with thick wires, good cooling and a customized motor (which Sherman S is), then crusing in the mountains may be better than with a 134V wheel. Add to that, if we have 3600Wh with 100V we have an 8P configuration. If we have 134V with 3600Wh, we only have a 6P config, which means less max Amps and more voltage drop. So yes the commander pro may be the faster racing wheel, but not the better allrounder nor does this wheel have more range than the Sherman S. With all that said, if you are a heavier rider I would suggest Sherman S all day. Which quality the Commander Pro is bulit we will have to see, so no judgement here at this time. Edited November 23, 2022 by aze man 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbrunoeuc Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 1 hour ago, techyiam said: If the build quality and weather proofing is not worse than the Master, then the Commander Pro is a steal for sure. Those extra 1.2 kWh of Samsung 50E cells, CNC pedals, and the magnesium alloy side panels cost money. It is a very simple design, so if the suspension struts are of sufficient quality, then the Commander Pro should not need much mod if any to be a complete wheel. At GT King Store (Ali Express), the price is certainly attractive. I have the V12 HS. Really nice talk with you! Thank you for that 😊👍 A teardown video will definitely be a help for everybody who's interested in this thing. Also looked at these fine v12s. Fine wheels for sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbrunoeuc Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 1 hour ago, aze man said: Please do not forget that higher voltage means higher speed or faster acceleration but not necessarily better hillclimbing or sustainability. If a 100V wheel is good designed with thick wires, good cooling and a customized motor (which Sherman S is), then crusing in the mountains may be better than with a 134V wheel. Add to that, if we have 3600Wh with 100V we have an 8P configuration. If we have 134V with 3600Wh, we only have a 6P config, which means less max Amps and more voltage drop. So yes the commander pro may be the faster racing wheel, but not the better allrounder nor does this wheel have more range than the Sherman S. With all that said, if you are a heavier rider I would suggest Sherman S all day. Which quality the Commander Pro is bulit we will have to see, so no judgement here at this time. What about the duration it can handle hillclimbing without overheating? My Master is definitely well powered for my needs to go uphill in the mountains. I also think that the range in this specific area is great. I wondered before if the 100V is better with range... Probably not uphill Bet Sherman is better in built quality but I still wanna see all the reviews and user experiences once it arrives. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 On 11/22/2022 at 10:25 PM, Freeforester said: Edit: might the thread title better be changed to reflect the recently upped voltage? Title updated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aze man Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 (edited) On 11/23/2022 at 6:37 PM, alexbrunoeuc said: What about the duration it can handle hillclimbing without overheating? My Master is definitely well powered for my needs to go uphill in the mountains. I also think that the range in this specific area is great. I wondered before if the 100V is better with range... Probably not uphill Bet Sherman is better in built quality but I still wanna see all the reviews and user experiences once it arrives. I would say hillclimbing without overheating is not dependable on voltage, only on the cooling capability itself. Have you watched the Video from eevee´s of the Sherman S Stress Test? Here the S22 and the Master overheated while Master Pro and Sherman S are keeping cool. Both have their MOSFETs attached to a metal plate which is attached to solid metal and that goes on to the whole frame. This should be about the same with Commander Pro, but again we have to see when it comes out. Interestingly the S22 had no problems with MB overheating but with the motor instead! 100V and better range? - All depends on the power dissipation at the given speed you are running up that hill, because the work which has to be done is always the same. If you go slower the higher Voltage is not needed so more current has to flow. If participating parts (electronic and wires) have a lower resistance then there will be less heat generated and therefore less battery used. Its the sum of all parts which will make the difference but in case of the new sherman motor there are very thick copper wires used in the motor (37mm with) and in the motor cable, Commander pro uses standard C38 motor with thinner wires. Edited November 24, 2022 by aze man 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbrunoeuc Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 28 minutes ago, aze man said: I would say hillclimbing without overheating is not dependable on voltage, only on the cooling capability itself. Have you watched the Video from eevee´s of the Sherman S Stress Test? Here the S22 and the Master overheated while Master Pro and Sherman S are keeping cool. Both have their MOSFETs attached to a metal plate which is attached to solid metal and that goes on to the whole frame. This should be about the same with Commander Pro, but again we have to see when it comes out. Interestingly the S22 had no problems with MB overheating but with the motor instead! 100V and better range? - All depends on the power dissipation at the given speed you are running up that hill, because the work which has to be done is always the same. If you go slower the higher Voltage is not needed so more current has to flow. If participating parts (electronic and wires) have a lower resistance then there will be less heat generated and therefore less battery used. Its the sum of all parts which will make the difference but in case of the new sherman motor there are very thick copper wires used in the motor (37mm with) and in the motor cable, Commander pro uses standard C38 motor with thinner wires. Totally forgot about that video. Sure watched it. You are right! Thank you for your informations! Everyday something new to learn. Never ridden a 100V wheel... went from 55,5V Ninebot One S2 to a 134,4V Master cause my brain said:"More is more". 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKW Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 What do you guy think of the Commander Pro's suspension vs the Sherman-S's suspension? Which do you think is better and why? (not sure if there is much information on the Pro's suspension atm). If the Pro's suspension is good like the Sherman-S I may consider it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post techyiam Posted November 24, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 24, 2022 13 minutes ago, BKW said: What do you guy think of the Commander Pro's suspension vs the Sherman-S's suspension? Which do you think is better and why? (not sure if there is much information on the Pro's suspension atm). If the Pro's suspension is good like the Sherman-S I may consider it I'm afraid you have to wait for the comparison reviews to be sure. However, someone has posted a picture of a suspension struct of the Commander Pro, claiming to be from Alienrides. It looked small and non-standard. So, you can't know until someone rides one. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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