Sherman-S 3600wh: 100V, 20", suspension, 97lb

[BKW]

@Freeforester I noticed the locking mechanism for the trolley handle on the Sherman-S as well. With the regular Shermans, and with my 16X, their trolley handles would break due to popping open during a crash, and thus bending/breaking that way, so I'm a little optimistic about the Sherman-S trolley locking mechanism to keep it in place. However, by what I've seen on evee's first ride video, it looks pretty cheaply fastened, so I'm not so sure it'll do a good job holding up in a crash as it is now... And as I've reiterated, it's going to be an expensive replacement, and hopefully not something that is so breakable as the wheels I've mentioned above

[techyiam]

Too bad.

It looks like the Sherman-S deal got shutdown after 7 orders at GT King Store.

 

[Freeforester]

some observations from here:

 

“No gasket” : there is a visible upward protruding ridge of plastic moulded all around the housing, to the inside the screw holes, with corresponding groove in the top board (visible around 2:28) which suggests that it shouldn’t be too easy for water to pour in, but 1-1.5mm diameter silicone sealing beading/gasket is available online for the ‘worried well-off’ to address this potential issue as they may feel necessary, if they don’t want to apply the runny stuff, or electrical tape, which, if applied carefully around the exterior join might also serve to further reduce/minimise any risk of water or dust ingress; given there isn’t anywhere to place a physical gasket, I’d personally tend toward the careful appliance of exterior electrical tape option (okay, inelegant, but pretty effective and relatively clean, though I’m not even convinced that it would be strictly necessary);

Top cover screw type - Philips are a bit 20th century, but could be readily changed out for more suitable hex or torx heads (again, Würth considering 😆);

finish of handle lock mech, sacrificial kickstand, etc - should be readily addressed;

Lower exposed wiring - a notable cause for potential concern, as although the route chosen seems to be shielded by the housing, the actual wire protection could possibly be better, the shown routing - it would be great if this could be improved, to hopefully minimise risk of rock damage for the more serious off-roaders;

Lighting - still modular, and therefore replaceable should better designed rear or front become available or are improved upon by Lk;

suspension inner channel wear - a potential time-bomb! I would want to be satisfied that this aspect is fully addressed prior to full production rollout; it suggests there are  lateral and/or torsional forces both at work and ‘in play’ 🤔 that may require further design consideration; at 8:37 for a few seconds the wear/abrasion areas seem to be shown on the lower suspension fixing area, ie where the leverage is greatest for movement front to back, which also may need watching, as this seems to be the cause of the inner channel wear;

pedal ratchet system - is it really necessary? Something to wear out and possibly cause irritation; pedal extensions - let down by poor fixing screw choice,  I can see better aftermarket pedals becoming available, albeit at not inconsiderable cost;

tyre replacement - rather involved! Maybe should be offered stock from manufacturer with road or knobby tyre, but at least the dissembling process appears to be a) relatively straightforward, if time consuming, but also b) offers the owner the opportunity to inspect the suspension channels, bearings, etc, so not all bad news really. 
 

Shall watch again! Looking forward to a more detailed and comprehensive teardown as executed by our friends in Russia.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Freeforester

[rebeuc]

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

Too bad.

It looks like the Sherman-S deal got shutdown after 7 orders at GT King Store.

When I checked just now they still have 3 of the 62lb suspension available, and the price only went up by $20

(compared to before where they showed as having around 97 in stock)

[rebeuc]

1 hour ago, rebeuc said:

When I checked just now they still have 3 of the 62lb suspension available, and the price only went up by $20

Okay yeah the stock in that listing is fluctuating quite a bit

Now the 62lbs is out of stock and the 58lbs has 1 in stock

So I assume they are trickling these in and not just starting with a pool of 100 of each as they were yesterday

[techyiam]

@rebeuc Thanks. It is rather odd that it fluctuates like this, since one can place an order for 2nd batch.

[rebeuc]

1 minute ago, techyiam said:

It is rather odd that it fluctuates like this, since one can place an order for 2nd batch.

Not necessarily; it could serve one or more purposes:

1. Ratelimit orders so you don't have some reseller or something order 100 of them
2. Make people 'on the fence' about ordering more likely to place an older; after all it says there is only one left!
3. Hide the true number available or already sold as part of this deal (maybe even so Leaperkim themselves aren't sure as it may be that this isn't an allowable price)

[wstuart]

3 hours ago, Freeforester said:

 

 

suspension inner channel wear - a potential time-bomb! I would want to be satisfied that this aspect is fully addressed prior to full production rollout; it suggests there are  lateral and/or torsional forces both at work and ‘in play’ 🤔 that may require further design consideration; at 8:37 for a few seconds the wear/abrasion areas seem to be shown on the lower suspension fixing area, ie where the leverage is greatest for movement front to back, which also may need watching, as this seems to be the cause of the inner channel wear

Im concerned that this wear indicated that the frame has excessive flex - like the Abrams.  Is the idea here that the battery cases are the source of rigidity?  

[Dmitry Ya]

17 minutes ago, rebeuc said:

Хорошо, да, акции в этом списке немного колеблются.

Теперь 62lbs нет в наличии, а 58lbs есть 1 в наличии.

Поэтому я предполагаю, что они просачиваются, а не просто начинают с пула из 100 каждого, как это было вчера.

Sorry guys, these fluctuations are because of me, I yesterday asked the store to put one wheel for my friend, because such a price was for a limited batch, today when a friend was ordering had difficulty with the payment on this product then appeared to disappear. The factory does not give the store more wheels at such a low price, I was informed of this by the seller King on Ali.
I use a translator, sorry if it is not accurate.

 

[Dmitry Ya]

You can try to write a personal message to King if you are ready to buy, maybe someone refused to pay and there will be free positions

[Freeforester]

33 minutes ago, wstuart said:

Im concerned that this wear indicated that the frame has excessive flex - like the Abrams.  Is the idea here that the battery cases are the source of rigidity?  

I don’t think the ‘magnesium alloy’ battery shell structure should have much if any notable flex as such, they do house the batteries after all, and remember, these guys left Gotway, citing quality and design concerns,  but - until we get a proper appraisal - who knows?    Looking at the causes of the internal channel rubbing/wear, it seems to me that a little refinement in the finish of the lower suspension arm fixing brackets might well obviate the issue  (that’s where the obvious wear/scuff signs on the pre-prod unit here are to be seen, 08:37 and on),  I can hardly imagine it to be a structural feature, ie they’re meant to keep clear of the inner channels; but as and until this is addressed, I’d still be ‘watching on with interest’.  

Edit: the suspension upright (vertical) support/guide rails seem to show marked wear at around 12:29 also. Some of these components are obviously coming into frictional contact with the battery casing, causing the internal wear.

Least worst case scenario - attach bristles and clean the channel as you go, lolno!

Edited November 2, 2022 by Freeforester

[techyiam]

The Sherman-S uses inverted fork sliders. There doesn't need to have any relative movements between the outer slider tube and the battery case. If there is a problem, it would be very easy to fix. However, I am not sure that there is a problem to start with.

Keep in mind that only the stanchions at the bottom with the wheel move up and down.

[Freeforester]

3 minutes ago, techyiam said:

The Sherman-S uses inverted fork sliders. There doesn't need to have any relative movements between the outer slider tube and the battery case. If there is a problem, it would be very easy to fix. However, I am not sure that there is a problem to start with.

Keep in mind that only the stanchions at the bottom with the wheel move up and down.

Let us hope so, the wear marks as seen suggest a fairly rapid deterioration rate, given it has only been ridden for four days.

[Freeforester]

5 hours ago, ETAonTheEUC said:

@Freeforester I noticed the locking mechanism for the trolley handle on the Sherman-S as well. With the regular Shermans, and with my 16X, their trolley handles would break due to popping open during a crash, and thus bending/breaking that way, so I'm a little optimistic about the Sherman-S trolley locking mechanism to keep it in place. However, by what I've seen on evee's first ride video, it looks pretty cheaply fastened, so I'm not so sure it'll do a good job holding up in a crash as it is now... And as I've reiterated, it's going to be an expensive replacement, and hopefully not something that is so breakable as the wheels I've mentioned above

Yeah, I don’t know if it’s a case of needing a little refinement in the casting/anodising/coating depts or addition of a couple slim shims to reduce friction, but it shouldn’t be impossible for Lk to address.

[techyiam]

As for the top cover, the bottom mating surface is grooved, and the top mating surface has a protruding ridgeline which fits into the groove. This could already be splash resistant. But should someone wants better protection, one can form a gasket at the bottom of the groove by running a line of silicone in the groove using a Q-tip. Don't put back the cover until the silicone has cured.

[RagingGrandpa]

1 hour ago, Freeforester said:

the suspension upright (vertical) support/guide rails seem to show marked wear at around 12:29 also

Exactly. The contact is between the battery casing and the lower shock mount / fender support, shown nicely by Eevees' stills in their Telegram.

[Jon Wall]

Disappointed,  I was more optimistic about this before this teardown video.  The rub marks from poorly calculated clearance, Philips screws, gimmick taillight looks plug in maybe easy to replace, overly complicated pedals, sealant Mia. How can something be so over engineered and under engineered the same time. This looks rushed with Lots left to adress before production? I wonder how many of these issues will be addressed by Leaperkim and how many we are expected to solve 

Definitely less excited now and nolonger in a rush 

[techyiam]

In EEVEES Sherman-S Tear Down video at 15:45, Albert shows wear marks higher up on the back covers of the battery packs. Not sure if these are wear marks or plastic grinded down in production. 

However, he also show wear marks down lower in the battery pack earlier in the video. This could be due to insufficient clearance between battery pack center tunnel and the stanchion clamp at the axle. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by techyiam

[Mango]

14 minutes ago, Jon Wall said:

Disappointed,  I was more optimistic about this before this teardown video.  The rub marks from poorly calculated clearance, Philips screws, gimmick taillight looks plug in maybe easy to replace, overly complicated pedals, sealant Mia. How can something be so over engineered and under engineered the same time. This looks rushed with Lots left to adress before production? I wonder how many of these issues will be addressed by Leaperkim and how many we are expected to solve 

Definitely less excited now and nolonger in a rush 

Screws, taillight, pedals can be replaced. Adding sealant is no problem. Rub marks are normal for moving parts.

If this is the level of complaint against SS, it looks solid to me!

[Funky]

Kinda disappointed.. No gaskets, dumb pedal opening/closing mechanism. Dumb trolly handle.

Great beefy axle, but i personally hate the idea of having those 4x screws into axle itself. Over tightening, or broken off screw may mess up those holes/treads. Then you need to drill/tap new "bigger" holes for new screws. Or change motor itself. (Or can the axle part only be removed from rim?)

I also can imagine those screws coming loose over time..

Edited November 2, 2022 by Funky

[Mango]

8 hours ago, techyiam said:

Too bad.

It looks like the Sherman-S deal got shutdown after 7 orders at GT King Store.

 

I'm guilty as charged. 😊

[techyiam]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

I'm guilty as charged. 😊

Congrats. 

For riders who don't need to go faster than 75+ km/h, that is one awesome, high quality suspension wheel to own. That is like $2000 savings for you.

[techyiam]

11 minutes ago, Funky said:

Great beefy axle, but i personally hate the idea of having those 4x screws into axle itself. Over tightening, or broken off screw may mess up those holes/treads

What would suggest as an alternative?

[Funky]

12 minutes ago, techyiam said:

What would suggest as an alternative?

I'm no engineer, but i can see a flaw.. 

2 big metal hands coming from both sides and holding the axle? Same as regular pedals on regular axle. But sideways? That's a fast idea...

Something like this.. 4 or 6 screws per side. Holding said "clamps". Heck rotate it and you can screw the screws from bottom and have top part "welded" to the suspension.

It took me 1 min to think of something better. Easy to fix and so on..  

Edited November 2, 2022 by Funky

[techyiam]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

My SS order came out to cdn $4221, and this is with ups expedited shipping. Shipping timeframe remains to be seen.

Against retail price and taxes I'm saving about $2498. No EUC should be priced over $5,000.

How did you manage to get a lower price? Did you negotiate with the seller?

Do you know how much it would have been, if you had selected regular shipping instead? Thanks.