Sherman-S 3600wh: 100V, 20", suspension, 97lb

[techyiam]

46 minutes ago, enaon said:

I am not sure, but see no reason not to be, no one really cared the v11 was off by ~10%. This is not an inmotion only thing, till some time ago kingsong was off by more than 10%, closer to 15%.

Thanks.

I see what you are saying now. To me, that is more of a speedometer calibration thing. In almost all cases, they will over report. It is just a matter of degree. 10% maybe on the high side, but it isn't that bad.

[enaon]

3 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Thanks.

I see what you are saying now. To me, that is more of a speedometer calibration thing. In almost all cases, they will over report. It is just a matter of degree. 10% maybe on the high side, but it isn't that bad.

I am not exactly saying that the just over report like they all do, or used to do. I am saying that till it is verified that this is a extraordinary motor, it makes more sense to assume that they over inflated the free spin speed for marketing reasons. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by enaon

[techyiam]

16 minutes ago, enaon said:

I am not exactly saying that the just over report like they all do, or used to do. I am saying that till it is verified that this is a extraordinary motor, it makes more sense to assume that they over inflated the free spin speed for marketing reasons. 

To me, I not really seeing the benefit Inmotion is getting from the V13's free spin speed, since they are capping the top speed to only 90 km/h. The motor is rated at 4500 W, with a peak of 10 000 W. Even if the free spin speed is 120 km/h, I don't see a problem.

My Inmotion V12 has a free spin speed of 103 km/h. I wouldn't know whether this speed is inflated or not. But if the V13's free spin speed is inflated by about the same percentage,  I am fine with that.

[enaon]

35 minutes ago, techyiam said:

To me, I not really seeing the benefit Inmotion is getting from the V13's free spin speed

I think there is a reason, this conversation started exactly because of the reported free spin of the v13, someone thought that it will provide a safer margin. 

I will check it once I get my hands on one, assuming someone will buy it here, because it defies logic a bit, it is either an extraordinary motor or extraordinary marketing. The numbers they released point to the latter in my opinion, the same goes for your v12, I do not think it is a 103 free spin wheel, 85 is more likely.  

Edited October 2, 2022 by enaon

[Freeforester]

At face value, It’s a lot of mass in the new V13, which, when ‘let go’, will make for ‘interesting’ viewing, especially at the implied upper speed limits. Build quality notwithstanding, there may well be some repercussions.

[Daniel Clopton]

I was just thinking about the topic of free spin speed. I believe there is an inherent flaw with that data point in comparing wheels. It is entirely dependent on wheel diameter and proper speed calibration. If you get a slightly lower free spin speed on an 18" wheel it may actually be better than a higher free spin speed on a 22" wheel since the 18" wheel actually has to rotate faster. We should be thinking in terms of free spin RPM.

Edited October 2, 2022 by Daniel Clopton

[The Brahan Seer]

7 minutes ago, Daniel Clopton said:

We should be thinking in terms of free spin RPM.

Won't the revolutions per minute vary depending on the size of the wheel too? A 16" will have a higher revolution per minute than an 18" equivalent. Which the free spin speed takes into account? or am I missing something.

[Freeforester]

May as well await the real world trials, given that most of us won’t be testing the wheels to beyond what most would consider a safe upper speed limit or ‘target’, depending on one’s attitude/level of curiosity.

[enaon]

1 hour ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Won't the revolutions per minute vary depending on the size of the wheel too? A 16" will have a higher revolution per minute than an 18" equivalent. Which the free spin speed takes into account? or am I missing something.

rpm will be the same on an 16 or 24 wheel if using the same motor design and board tech, speed will change since the bigger dimeter travels more distance on each revolution. 

a magnet on the rim and a handheld hall sensor will point out if im is using tech or marketng. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by enaon

[The Brahan Seer]

4 minutes ago, enaon said:

rpm will be the same on an 16 or 24 wheel if using the same motor design and board tech

Yes of course, The revolutions at the axle are the same. I am very stupid these days. I blame old age, covid and intelligence.

[fbhb]

Noticed this Ali Express listing by Wheel Tech Store, which mentions that there will be 2 suspension weight versions made available by Leaperkim.

58lbs suspension model for riders up to 80KG 

62lbs suspension model for riders over 80KG

 

Link to Ali Express listing: https://tinyurl.com/Veteran-Sherman-S

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by fbhb

[Rawnei]

15 minutes ago, fbhb said:

Noticed this Ali Express listing by Wheel Tech Store, which mentions that there will be 2 suspension weight versions made available by Leaperkim.

58lbs suspension model for riders up to 80KG 

62lbs suspension model for riders over 80KG

Link to Ali Express listing: https://tinyurl.com/Veteran-Sherman-S

 

That price 😂 hope it's placeholder.

[Slartibartfast]

17 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

That price 😂 hope it's placeholder.

Hope away, but it seems pretty spot on to me: 

 

What are you expecting?

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by Slartibartfast

[Paul g]

They’ve changed the shape of the seat for the production model. I hoped they’d make more like a bicycle seat with an ergonomic channel in the middle for our sensible tissues. 

Old one:

New one:

[Slartibartfast]

6 minutes ago, Paul g said:

I hoped they’d make more like a bicycle seat with an ergonomic channel...

Personally I couldn't care less bout the seat.

Possibly, if anything, it may be beneficial to add a means by which one could add their own seat but I can't see myself ever using either the supplied seat nor my own one myself.

But each to their own.

[Paul g]

Seat is very important for long rides, have some leg rest, it is also important to protect the board casing - two functions in one.

[enaon]

Anybody know what the 58/62 lbs is about? 

[Slartibartfast]

1 hour ago, Paul g said:

Seat is very important for long rides...

Sure, if you want a seat then by all means, but I have tried riding seated on almost every wheel I have and I have to say it has never worked for me. Even on an S22 I found it completely impractical but clearly others seem to be able to manage it so I say go ahead.

I'm just saying having the ability to fit your own seat would probably be more beneficial than hoping to have the ideal seat fitted as standard ...and I have to say wishing to have a divot carved out for your plumbs to nestle in, to me sounds misguided (😲). Having a rail run over the top or something to which you could mount a regular bicycle seat or an old fashioned steel tractor seat if you wish, or whatever you like would be better.

But as I say, it really doesn't phase me as I've never found seats practical regardless, either with or without a "Gooch pit": 😅
(and here's hoping you don't all go off Googling "Gooch" –even the google auto-results are NSFW)

Edited October 3, 2022 by Slartibartfast

[Jon Wall]

2 different spring rates is fantastic. Does the seat look more shaped on the sides now? Maybe rolls over the sides a bit? Looks great. Anyone read anything about waterproofing yet?

[RagingGrandpa]

3 hours ago, enaon said:

Anybody know what the 58/62 lbs is about? 

To me, that indicates it's a coil spring, not an air spring. 
Likely, 58 lb/in spring rate, on each side.
Preload is adjustable with a threaded mount, so it could be up to 2" of static sag, and less when preload is used. 

Assuming a 60lb battery+frame, the 150lb rider has a 210lb total sprung mass. And 220lb guy is 280lb total. 
A little strange that this 30% increase in weight only gets a 7% increase in spring rate... but it may also mean Fastace has tuned this smartly. Time will tell.

(Do not compare these numbers to scissor-link spring rates like S22 (~1000 lb/in). Sherman-S has a 1:1 motion ratio and two springs. S22 has about 3:1 motion ratio, and one spring.)

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by RagingGrandpa
(Fastace not Fastech)

[enaon]

33 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Likely, 58 lb/in spring rate, on each side.

thanks, so it is lbs/inch, this makes more sence. Is the 58 to 62 really that much of a difference? How would that translate to a scissor-link spring for the 58 and the 62, can you give an estimation?

ps. sorry, reading more careful I can see that you answered allready 

 

ps2. I thought they were fastech too, but is it, or is  it fastace?

Edited October 3, 2022 by enaon

[Slartibartfast]

24 minutes ago, enaon said:

I thought they were fastech too, but is it, or is  it fastace?

[Slartibartfast]

2 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

To me, that indicates it's a coil spring, not an air spring. 

I think you're right.

All the sites listing the Sherman-S features seem to be saying "shock compression and rebound adjustable" without mentioning any "pressure adjustment", and this infographic even mentions "pretension adjustment" which definitely does seem more "spring" than "air":

 

It also mentions "90mm Suspension travel range" which frankly doesn't seem like that much.

Hopefully it will be enough but given I am likely to compress those springs significantly just by standing on them I hope there is still enough travel left to actually do the suspension.

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by Slartibartfast

[fbhb]

12 hours ago, enaon said:

I thought they were fastech too, but is it, or is  it fastace?

More information about the "upside down" forks Fastace have most likely used as the Blueprint/template/inspiration for the implementation on the Sherman-S can be found on the Fastace website:

 Fastace ALX13RC MTB Bike Front Fork 26 27.5 29 Inch Compatible Double – fastace

Interestingly, on the Sherman-S the adjusters at the top of each tube are colour coded, which would indicate different functions from left stanchion to the right stanchion, so possibly (hopefully) a very similar construction to the "upside down" forks they have experience producing is being used! 

Edited October 4, 2022 by fbhb

[Slartibartfast]

42 minutes ago, fbhb said:

More information about the "upside down" forks Fastace have most likely used as the Blueprint for the implementation on the Sherman-S can be found on the Fastace website

Yeah, I've seen that. The top caps on those forks are definitely different to what's on the Sherman-S and those forks are listed as having 200mm of travel where as the Sherman forks only have 90mm, so I'd take comparisons with a pinch of salt as they say: 

 

After thinking about it more, while 90mm is less travel than I was expecting there is of course a trade off between suspension travel and ride height and given I'm more of a cruisy rider than off-road thumper perhaps a lower ride height would actually be preferable. My only concern is how much of that 90mm is going to be left once fully loaded.

In terms of loading I see most manufactures seem to be stating 120kg where as eWheels often seem to state 325 or 330lbs. For instance SpeedyFeed list the "Max Load" of the ShermanMAX as 120kg (264lbs) where as eWheels shows it as 330lb/150kg. Any idea where this discrepancy comes from?

Edited October 4, 2022 by Slartibartfast