Sherman Max: missing motor axle sealant - all affected wheels require rework

[That Guy]

So, you have to disassemble the wheel completely (including disconnecting the motor, taking the pedal hangers, etc.) in order to apply the sealant, right? (I am sure it's been already discussed, I just couldn't find where. ) 

[techyiam]

17 minutes ago, That Guy said:

I just couldn't find where.

@FrenchUsa did a video on how to change a tire on the Sherman Max. 

1/2" impact gun and heat gun can come handy, I suppose. 

 

 

[That Guy]

29 minutes ago, techyiam said:

how to change a tire

So, there are no ways around and you have to dismantle it to bits?... 

[techyiam]

47 minutes ago, That Guy said:

So, there are no ways around and you have to dismantle it to bits?... 

I don't own a Sherman Max. And I don't know whether there is a special silicone applicator that would allow you to inject the silicone into the axle space to seal the axle channel from foreign matter ingress, without removing the the wheel first. 

If the wheel has to be removed first, then it does look comparable to most other wheels. Remove the side covers. Remove covers to access phase wires, and hall sensor wires. Disconnect the wires from the controller board. For, the Sherman Max, you may need a Impact gun, and possibly a soldering iron. Remove all relevant bolts, and slide out the wheel.

Edited October 12, 2022 by techyiam

[supercurio]

Pictures from when I helped my friend Simon with his Sherman Max.
There was sealant already, but as you can see it was not applied in a way that prevent ingress

 

Top view

It looks like sealant is applied first, then the wire is pulled up during assembly, in order to go through the pedal hanger which opens a gap.

New sealant applied

Notice that the sealant fills the gap below the hole and the motor wire. It was then allowed to harden over night, before some cleaning and reassembly

Edited October 13, 2022 by supercurio

[BananaPancake666]

Forum newbie here. Just wanted to say thank you. All of the information here was super helpful. I pre-ordered the Sherman max and I think mine is probably from one of the first batches. It was totally missing sealant. Took care of it myself thanks to the videos and information posted here. Y'all are awesome. 

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, BananaPancake666 said:

Took care of it myself thanks to the videos and information posted here. Y'all are awesome. 

Did you remove the three axle bolts that fasten the pedal hanger to the axle on each side?

Were yours super tight?

If yes, which method did you use to lossen them?

I have an Abrams, which has the same axle-to-pedal hanger arrangement, and the same water ingress issue.

I am debating which method to use.

The easiest method would be to use a half-inch drive impact gun, which I have in pneumatic and electric form.

However, I worry about damaging the bolt heads.

I have already guaged how tight bolts are fastened.

I use a 1/2" drive flex bar, and a 3/4" drive T-handle. I applied a substantial loosening torque, but probably still less than 100 ft-lbs. It didn't budge the slightest. 

I contemplated of using heat first, but then there is a plastic fender mounting flange there. So a torch or heat gun are out.

I don't have a high power soldering iron.

Edited December 15, 2022 by techyiam

[BananaPancake666]

On 12/15/2022 at 3:05 PM, techyiam said:

Did you remove the three axle bolts that fasten the pedal hanger to the axle on each side?

Were yours super tight?

If yes, which method did you use to lossen them?

I have an Abrams, which has the same axle-to-pedal hanger arrangement, and the same water ingress issue.

I am debating which method to use.

The easiest method would be to use a half-inch drive impact gun, which I have in pneumatic and electric form.

However, I worry about damaging the bolt heads.

I have already guaged how tight bolts are fastened.

I use a 1/2" drive flex bar, and a 3/4" drive T-handle. I applied a substantial loosening torque, but probably still less than 100 ft-lbs. It didn't budge the slightest. 

I contemplated of using heat first, but then there is a plastic fender mounting flange there. So a torch or heat gun are out.

I don't have a high power soldering iron.

Sorry for the late response! Lots of group rides this week!

Yep, I did remove the axle bolts. They were SUPER TIGHT. It was a nightmare. I tried loosening them with brute strength. That got the first one at least. Then, my arms were too tired. So, I got my wrench secured in there, using my best hex bit. Then, I took a mallet and tried repeatedly and forcefully tapping the handle of my wrench. I made sure the wrench was pointing out toward the pedal hangers so that I wouldn't knock the batteries if I missed. Anyway, that worked eventually and I didn't even strip anything! However, this method can and will strip those things quick if you're not careful. 

I don't know if any benefit gained from using heat is worth getting heat so close to the batteries. I'd recommend taking the batteries out if you're gonna go that route, just in case! 
 

Edited December 19, 2022 by BananaPancake666

[techyiam]

4 hours ago, BananaPancake666 said:

Yep, I did remove the axle bolts. They were SUPER TIGHT. It was a nightmare. I tried loosening them with brute strength. That got the first one at least. Then, my arms were too tired. So, I got my wrench secured in there, using my best hex bit. Then, I took a mallet and tried repeatedly and forcefully tapping the handle of my wrench. I made sure the wrench was pointing out toward the pedal hangers so that I wouldn't knock the batteries if I missed.

Thank you for your reply. 

It does look like the best way to weather seal the bearings and the motor wire channel in the axle is to remove the wheel first.

Wow, you indeed use brute strength. That would be a tall order if you don't have a 1/2" drive impact gun ,or a couple breaker bars with one on each side.

And you did it without removing the battery packs first, on top of that.

I have already remove my battery packs since I had to to add the capacitors. There will be a spark when connecting the first pack back. You could use s high power rated resistor to charge back up the capacitors  at lower current to avoid the spark.

I am going to experiment with some out of the box ideas first to heat up the bolts without melting the part of the fender that mounts to the pedal hanger.

Otherwise, I will just put my 1/2" drive pneumatic impact gun on it. Easy peasy then.

 

[BananaPancake666]

On 12/19/2022 at 7:36 PM, techyiam said:

Thank you for your reply. 

It does look like the best way to weather seal the bearings and the motor wire channel in the axle is to remove the wheel first.

Wow, you indeed use brute strength. That would be a tall order if you don't have a 1/2" drive impact gun ,or a couple breaker bars with one on each side.

And you did it without removing the battery packs first, on top of that.

I have already remove my battery packs since I had to to add the capacitors. There will be a spark when connecting the first pack back. You could use s high power rated resistor to charge back up the capacitors  at lower current to avoid the spark.

I am going to experiment with some out of the box ideas first to heat up the bolts without melting the part of the fender that mounts to the pedal hanger.

Otherwise, I will just put my 1/2" drive pneumatic impact gun on it. Easy peasy then.

 

 

Oof, had to add some capacitors? Yikes! To the controller or where? Is this a common thing needed on the abrams? 
Also, yeah I decided to leave the battery packs in. The Sherman Max connects each pair of packs using a li-tech power board. Looks like the OG sherman doesn't have these boards. During assembly, they opted to just solder a very thick wire to a pad on the board instead of using a connecter or a properly-sized hole. I had to re-solder one of em. Anyway it's all so fragile seeming that I decided it would be best to leave it all in place. Hahaha 

Best of luck with everything! 

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, BananaPancake666 said:

had to add some capacitors? Yikes! To the controller or where? Is this a common thing needed on the abrams? 

Kevin Is a tech at e-rides. He owns an Abrams. And he posted a video sharing his experimentation with adding two additional capacitors to the controller board. Essentially, he doubled up on the original two large capacitors on the board. For him, the big win was he no longer experience cut out when hitting a certain speed bump at 45 mph. He also noticed that the motor runs smoother in the Free Spin speed test. I haven't seen many others posting that they have tried the capacitor mod.

1 hour ago, BananaPancake666 said:

Anyway it's all so fragile seeming that I decided it would be best to leave it all in place.

I see. It is really too bad it is like that.

1 hour ago, BananaPancake666 said:

Best of luck with everything!

Thanks. You too.

Edited December 22, 2022 by techyiam

[BlunderedEUC]

I am late to the thread but does this impact the v1-3 shermans as well or just the max?

[fbhb]

On 2/16/2023 at 4:09 PM, BlunderedEUC said:

I am late to the thread but does this impact the v1-3 shermans as well or just the max?

This ONLY impacts the Sherman Max due to the wider diameter 3 bolt axle, "slotted" to accommodate the motor cables!

Edited March 3, 2023 by fbhb

[Kekafuch]

On 3/3/2023 at 1:49 AM, fbhb said:

This ONLY impacts the Sherman Max due to the wider diameter 3 bolt axle, "slotted" to accommodate the motor cables!

Abrams has the same axle design. 
 

I opened up my Abrams motor recently and it wasn’t sealed at the axle motor wire. The cover had some type of sealant applied but not at the groove. My motor was clean and dry inside. 5000kms .

[Pignon]

Hi, may I know the size of the 3  big bolts? My Shermax is also affected. I need to open up the motor. I don't have an impact wrench. I there a Bosch, Makita  unit that you can recommend that will open the bolts? Thank you.