Have others taken interest in your EUC the wrong way?

[Glock43x]

I ride to the lake front in Milwaukee, WI often and it happened 3 times already. Some ghetto people have taken interest in my EUC the wrong way. All those 3 times, they have joked about "taking it" from me as I ride by. It's basically a robbery.  I swear, one time. I could have shot 3 teens with my Glock 43x (w/red dot and 3 spare mags)  if they didn't let me through. They blocked (sitting in the middle of the trail) the trail (it was 7pm and no one around) and as I approached within 20 yards, they got up and walked toward me. Looked around and no one was on the trail and I thought to myself, "This is it.. Someone or some people will have to die tonight". In WI, we are allowed to carry (assuming you are allowed to own guns) and use deadly force if others are attempting to rob you and/or do physical harm whether using hands or weapons.

I unzipped my jacket and suddenly those teens stopped and moved out of the way. For those from Milwaukee or the surrounding area, it happened on the oak leaf trail just after crossing the milwaukee river.

Lived in Milwaukee for over 30 yrs. I honestly believed those teens were up to no good, but they knew something was up when I unzipped my jacket.
 

Edited July 29, 2022 by Glock43x

[UtahRider]

No but I love my 43x.

[Cerbera]

I very rarely feel threatened in my smallish home town, even when passing quite large groups of youths on the weekend, but I can't say the same when I occasionally visit the nearest large city, which is right on the seafront, and therefore makes for very scenic riding. On 3 separate occasions there I have spied large groups of potential trouble-makers from a distance and have had to divert my riding plans so I avoid riding past them. On one occasion my danger senses were so spiked that I actually turned round, and pegged it off the way I had come to avoid the possibility of confrontation.

I would say the possibility of having it stolen by force is a constant, but low-level background worry when riding, but I generally feel more reassured the faster I am going, presuming as I do that if I can keep the time short between when they first see me coming and when I'm gone again, people won't have time to hatch worrisome plans !

Being in the UK, we do not have access to guns or anything that would offer a reasonable defence in a robbery situation, so avoidance, wheeling away at speed and long distance awareness are about the only things we can do - indeed it's a sad state of affairs, but I don't think our police, these days, are remotely likely to be interested in helping if one does get stolen.

I have evolved a sort of generally unwritten rule book for minimising the risk of running into trouble, which seems to have mostly worked so far...

• Don't ride the same paths at the same time of day - vary routes and ride times so you are hard to predict.
• Keep moving. When in potential danger areas don't hang around in one place very long, and ideally don't stop at all, and get through it quite fast so people don't have time to hatch nefarious plans before you are gone.
• Go to larger towns and cities early in the morning - like 9-11 am when most errant youth are still asleep !
• Ride in busy public areas where there is good camera coverage (not hard in UK where there are cameras damn well everywhere in city centres!)
• Wear excellent armour, ideally with a full face visor so you are resistant to projectiles and liquids (recent spate of acid attacks in London)
• Pre plan several different routes back to the car.
• Use a twisted wire tether to tie your machine to you in a way that would make the 'push, grab and go' attack impossible or considerably more difficult for them.
• If you see any vehicle with more than one person in it slowing down or taking an unhealthy interest in you, alter your path to remove yourself from their sight asap. In worst case, where a van stops ahead of you, and you get dark vibes, do a 180, and peg it off the way you just came, which they will be unable to easily follow. Then, get off that road as soon as you can, ideally down a cycle path where they can't follow even if they manage to turn around !

CBR

Edited July 29, 2022 by Cerbera

[sbb]

14 hours ago, Glock43x said:

I unzipped my jacket and suddenly those teens stopped and moved out of the way.

Obligatory

[0000]

15 hours ago, Glock43x said:

They blocked (sitting in the middle of the trail) the trail (it was 7pm and no one around) and as I approached within 20 yards, they got up and walked toward me. Looked around and no one was on the trail and I thought to myself, "This is it..

That's straight up "highway" banditry tactics. I've always thought that it was kind of stupid, years ago, when some mainstream news channels were all about labeling "No-Go" zones in various European countries and meanwhile the US had and has these same "zones" in far greater quantities and densities which seem to be growing all the time.

I'd define "No-Go" zones as areas populated by people not interested in the rule of law or in maintaining some semblance of civilized society. It sounds like you might live in such an area. Like @Cerbera said above, the best strategy is avoidance. While he doesn't get access to adequate personal defense measures, god forbid you have to use yours. As it is today you will likely suffer a great deal in the court system that seems hell bent on protecting and excusing perpetrators of crime if they can be perceived as higher in the victimization/oppression hierarchy of the reigning dominant cultural ideology in the West.

While I haven't personally experienced that level of threat riding ebikes or EUC yet, I tend to spend a good deal of effort planning when and where I park my vehicle when I'm in new locations to minimize the chance of theft. That said, I believe it's never a bad idea to responsibly carry as much as possible if you are able to, should the worst come to pass despite all avoidance preparations. "No-Go" areas are an unsolvable problem in today's society IMO, best to just move if and when you can.

Still, the incentives stack up that it's probably still better to be judged by 12 and all that than the alternative... well maybe just.

[Glock43x]

On 7/28/2022 at 11:07 PM, Cerbera said:

I very rarely feel threatened in my smallish home town, even when passing quite large groups of youths on the weekend, but I can't say the same when I occasionally visit the nearest large city, which is right on the seafront, and therefore makes for very scenic riding. On 3 separate occasions there I have spied large groups of potential trouble-makers from a distance and have had to divert my riding plans so I avoid riding past them. On one occasion my danger senses were so spiked that I actually turned round, and pegged it off the way I had come to avoid the possibility of confrontation.

I would say the possibility of having it stolen by force is a constant, but low-level background worry when riding, but I generally feel more reassured the faster I am going, presuming as I do that if I can keep the time short between when they first see me coming and when I'm gone again, people won't have time to hatch worrisome plans !

Being in the UK, we do not have access to guns or anything that would offer a reasonable defence in a robbery situation, so avoidance, wheeling away at speed and long distance awareness are about the only things we can do - indeed it's a sad state of affairs, but I don't think our police, these days, are remotely likely to be interested in helping if one does get stolen.

I have evolved a sort of generally unwritten rule book for minimising the risk of running into trouble, which seems to have mostly worked so far...

• Don't ride the same paths at the same time of day - vary routes and ride times so you are hard to predict.
• Keep moving. When in potential danger areas don't hang around in one place very long, and ideally don't stop at all, and get through it quite fast so people don't have time to hatch nefarious plans before you are gone.
• Go to larger towns and cities early in the morning - like 9-11 am when most errant youth are still asleep !
• Ride in busy public areas where there is good camera coverage (not hard in UK where there are cameras damn well everywhere in city centres!)
• Wear excellent armour, ideally with a full face visor so you are resistant to projectiles and liquids (recent spate of acid attacks in London)
• Pre plan several different routes back to the car.
• Use a twisted wire tether to tie your machine to you in a way that would make the 'push, grab and go' attack impossible or considerably more difficult for them.
• If you see any vehicle with more than one person in it slowing down or taking an unhealthy interest in you, alter your path to remove yourself from their sight asap. In worst case, where a van stops ahead of you, and you get dark vibes, do a 180, and peg it off the way you just came, which they will be unable to easily follow. Then, get off that road as soon as you can, ideally down a cycle path where they can't follow even if they manage to turn around !

CBR

Thanks for the tip. I get off work at 3pm and usually hit the 20 mile trail (one way) around 5pm and back around 8pm. Will have to go save that trail for the weekend or during my days off. Part of that trail goes through the not-so-good area of the city before reaching the lake front. 

 

Despite carrying a gun all the time, I don't wanna shoot anyone if I absolutely do not have to. 

[Glock43x]

11 hours ago, Vanturion said:

That's straight up "highway" banditry tactics. I've always thought that it was kind of stupid, years ago, when some mainstream news channels were all about labeling "No-Go" zones in various European countries and meanwhile the US had and has these same "zones" in far greater quantities and densities which seem to be growing all the time.

I'd define "No-Go" zones as areas populated by people not interested in the rule of law or in maintaining some semblance of civilized society. It sounds like you might live in such an area. Like @Cerbera said above, the best strategy is avoidance. While he doesn't get access to adequate personal defense measures, god forbid you have to use yours. As it is today you will likely suffer a great deal in the court system that seems hell bent on protecting and excusing perpetrators of crime if they can be perceived as higher in the victimization/oppression hierarchy of the reigning dominant cultural ideology in the West.

While I haven't personally experienced that level of threat riding ebikes or EUC yet, I tend to spend a good deal of effort planning when and where I park my vehicle when I'm in new locations to minimize the chance of theft. That said, I believe it's never a bad idea to responsibly carry as much as possible if you are able to, should the worst come to pass despite all avoidance preparations. "No-Go" areas are an unsolvable problem in today's society IMO, best to just move if and when you can.

Still, the incentives stack up that it's probably still better to be judged by 12 and all that than the alternative... well maybe just.

I agreed..  i really hope I will never have to use deadly force. Milwaukee is a crap hole, but the trail that runs through part of it is so nice. 😆  Will have to avoid that part of the trail after 5pm from now on.   

Yes, when it really comes down to it, I would rather be judged by 12 than carriee by 6. 

[mhpr262]

Could you describe what they looked like?

[Glock43x]

4 hours ago, mhpr262 said:

Could you describe what they looked like?

Black teens in their 15-18's. Wearing pants half way down there asses. They're easy to spot. 

[gon2fast]

On 7/28/2022 at 7:35 PM, Glock43x said:

I could have shot 3 teens with my Glock 43x (w/red dot and 3 spare mags)  if they didn't let me through.

That is a bit much, but then again I don't live in a area where people need to carry guns for protection. Carry on and don't get your self in trouble.

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Glock43x said:

Wearing pants half way down there asses. They're easy to spot. 

In prisons they would be called ladyboys. Asses already presenting themselves..  

On positive note, they could not "run" after you. Their pants would fall down.  (In my mind they are clowns/dipshits.)

 

Edited July 30, 2022 by Funky

[360rumors]

On 7/28/2022 at 7:35 PM, Glock43x said:

I ride to the lake front in Milwaukee, WI often and it happened 3 times already. Some ghetto people have taken interest in my EUC the wrong way. All those 3 times, they have joked about "taking it" from me as I ride by. It's basically a robbery.

The way you describe it, it does seem that they were about to attack you but I don't know if that necessarily meant they were intending to take your wheel.  They could have identified that area as "theirs" and might have just been waiting for anyone to pass by to rob them.  Or maybe riding a high tech wheel made them think you have money. 

In this case, the issue is whether the state has a "stand your ground" law that allows you to use deadly force without having to retreat.  In other states, there is a duty to retreat before resorting to deadly force.  In a state with a duty to retreat, you could be liable if you had a wheel that would enable you to escape, but you chose to stay and confront them.  IDK what the law is in WI.  And even if you did retreat, but they came after you, how would you prove that you first retreated?  That's why IMHO if you choose to carry any weapon, it's probably a good idea to get some kind of body cam to protect yourself from criminal and civil liability.

[VikB]

Glock? I mount a 50 cal to my EUC. I'm not plinking beer cans! 

[360rumors]

Somewhat related to this incident is the Apple River incident.  It sounds like the guy was surrounded by people who were hitting him and he stabbed some of them to protect himself and get away, but he's the one who's being charged with first degree homicide, in part because the criminal complaint said he "had an opportunity to leave the confrontation."  Charges: Scuffle, insults led to fatal stabbing on Apple River - StarTribune.com   Since we have EUCs, there is an even stronger argument that we can leave the confrontation in states with a duty to retreat.

Edited August 2, 2022 by 360rumors

[360rumors]

7 hours ago, VikB said:

Glock? I mount a 50 cal to my EUC. I'm not plinking beer cans! 

desert eagle?  I tried shooting with that once at a range a long time ago.  are you able to shoot that while riding or will the recoil knock you off balance?

[mike_bike_kite]

Young males always try to look a little threatening and cool. I think it's just a part of growing up. The difficulty is not bursting out laughing when you see the latest "style". I'm usually very polite with them and try to treat them as the valued members of society I hope they'll become. Shooting them can be tempting at times but I don't think it's really necessary.   

[weavermarquez]

I am surprised that more people aren't yet talking about the utility of flashlights to pair with EUCs.

'Tactical' flashlights are an excellent, legally safe tool for threat assessment and de-escalation. Recent LED developments have led to crazy bright, yet tiny flashlights. Useful for a range of dangers.

Everybody can find a decent, inexpensive, portable flashlight that balances their specific needs addressing major riding concerns: Environmental conditions (wide flood, high throw, or high spill), human threats (high candela, turbo mode), other vehicles (high throw), and passive animal deterrence (color profile, strobe).

With two free hands, you can literally hold two flashlights! Or a flashlight and a phone, or a weapon, or a camera, whatever else.

[BarrettJ]

In the Madison, WI area the only “wrong” interest I get are the bicyclists who shake their head. 

[FlyingWigs]

On 8/3/2022 at 11:31 AM, BarrettJ said:

In the Madison, WI area the only “wrong” interest I get are the bicyclists who shake their head. 

Yesterday on my way home from work on the local paved pathway a cyclist told me that I need to leave the bike path for the bikes. It's not a bicycle specific trail, its a walkway and pedestrian path. Idaho only specifies no motor vehicles, referring to cars and motorcycles. Ebikes scooters and whatnot aren't really regulated much, nothing about euc at all. 

I just shrugged and kept wheeling. 

I've been passed by cyclists when I was going 28mph, so clearly I'm not the danger here lol

[level9]

As part of the 'defund the police' movement, police patrols on trails are way down around here which has emboldened the criminal element. We just got a homicide on a rather public trail which has never happened before. I'm sure the same is true in other parts of the US. I'd recommend carrying some sort of self defense at this point. Better safe than sorry.