S22 tips, mods, suspension settings, tire pressure, etc. Share your experiences!

[litewave]

3 hours ago, novazeus said:

i'd call it, 15" tall and 8.5" wide. the top and bottom have plates on them that add 3/16", and the front and back have rounded edges. 

so if i were laminating the sides, i'd make a plate 14.75"x 8".

this is the outside of the battery box. if this isn't what ur looking for, pls lmk.

 

 

1 hour ago, Tawpie said:

mine is 14.75" tall and 8.5" wide.

(and S22 is actually an excellent choice, some do disagree but that's my opinion!)

Thank you both very much!

 

[Tawpie]

@litewave you probably do want to extend your plate over the front and back some... the width works for my pad setup (Shanespads v2) but won't work for all. KS supplied stick-on blocks meant to be attached to the narrow front and back of the battery box to support their pads, but far and away the more popular approach is to make an oversized plate.

[litewave]

1 hour ago, Tawpie said:

@litewave you probably do want to extend your plate over the front and back some... the width works for my pad setup (Shanespads v2) but won't work for all. KS supplied stick-on blocks meant to be attached to the narrow front and back of the battery box to support their pads, but far and away the more popular approach is to make an oversized plate.

Thank you again. What dimensions would you recommend for Grizzla or Kinetic pads? I'm thinking of ~1/4" ABS or Kydex sheets.

[Tawpie]

56 minutes ago, litewave said:

Thank you again. What dimensions would you recommend for Grizzla or Kinetic pads? I'm thinking of ~1/4" ABS or Kydex sheets.

I'd start with the Kydex... the mods I've seen it looks like they extend the Kydex 2-3 inches past the front, enough so that at least one maker also added an L-shaped support to buttress it against the front of the case. This is a situation where you'll probably want to have the wheel before you go too crazy—partly because you need to find where you'll be putting your foot. Mine has to be very far forward because of the rear-heaviness of the wheel, much further forward than I anticipated.

[Tawpie]

Slider upgrade early report...

I ordered an 8 wheeled slider upgrade from ningning on Telegram (I'm calling it the ningning 8) and after candling all of the rollers had to wait for another shipment from Ali before I had enough without bubbles for me to feel good about the install. These are 24 mm rollers.

Train of thought:

• the slider rails were pretty raw, they hadn't had their sharp edges broken so I went after them with 400 grit sand paper... I don't like cutting myself
• the machining was quite good, not excellent, but acceptable for what we're using them for. I'm judging the slider machining against vape atomizers, and the atomizers are comparatively next level
• I candled all of the wheels, out of 40 in my kit (I ordered 8 extras) only 7 were 100% bubble-free. The rest had 1 bubble about 1 mm long fairly close to the surface. I ordered 30 more from Ali and was able to get enough bubble free wheels for the high stress locations (top front, bottom rear).
• the posts for the wheels are for the most part a very tight friction fit. I used a 2" Pony C Clamp to press most of them on, and the hammer and tongs technique for the ones that have to wait until the slider rail is mounted. In general, the wheels wanted quite a bit of persuasion to install and the included retention screws certainly won't be needed
• all of the hardware comes with the kit, including replacement countersunk rail screws and a retention screw for each wheel (unnecessary given how tight the posts are)
• I used Vibratite VC3 tape on the rail screws, blue locktite for the wheel screws. Rail screws were torqued to 10 n-m, I do not want these working loose. The wheel screws were tightened 'good and snug' (they take a 2 mm hex wrench and are very very fragile, I'm pretty sure I rounded 2 or 3 of them and will have a lot of fun getting them back out... expecting to have to drive a torx bit in there)
• the wheels aren't coming off anytime soon because they're super tight on the posts, I watched the video of removing them with tire spoons but do anticipate I'll be using a bearing puller (properly. so the post isn't goobered) if any wheels need to be replaced
• I had zero trouble reinstalling the wheel, no interference… I've read that some are having issues with the eWheels kits but I had none. I had trimmed the rubber battery box gaskets during my new-wheel-inspection and de-gluing/greasing and I easily got it back together without an assistant
• I had installed dust protectors that require removal of the bracket that holds the battery cases, so I had to remove that bracket again to get the dust protectors back out (no room for them with the 8 wheeled version). Because that bracket sets the alignment of the battery cases, I did this after I had reinstalled the wheel so that the battery cases would at least start life sort of lined up to the sliders—I slid the wheel in and out a few times as I gradually tightened everything up to try to keep them aligned but the final torquing will realign everything mechanically the way it wants. These bolts were torqued to 6.8 n-m.
• I elected to keep the 500 lb spring (135 lbs riding weight, fully geared), and it has 1 turn of preload with the suspension fully extended.
• the end result was very bouncy and super smooth. no noise, no scraping, no clicking. happy camper.

The ride

• the day job means I ride when it's dark, so no movies. I did make a run before the mod with a GoPro hard mounted (pretty hard, not solid) to the wheel with hyper smooth turned off—looking to see if the difference in small bump compliance is visible on video. That's my reference.
• I dropped off a few curbs to set the rebound... I had been running full-fast but backed that down to 10 clicks off of full fast. This gives me the just-barely-pogo-sticking feel I like.
• hard acceleration (for me) and emergency braking were vibration free, but it's a brand new install—we'll have to see as things get worn
• compression... at full soft (where it was before the mod), the wheel is squishy. Not good. I ended up settling at 2 clicks from full soft to see what max-plush felt like—the 'click' on the DNM is about 1/3 of a turn. It's pretty deluxe but at the same time it's a slightly disconnected feeling... off road I'll certainly tighten it down a bit.
• overall: on a mix of pretty good bike path and mowed-but-wild grass (you can turn an ankle in it if you're unlucky), this is now without a doubt a day-and-night more comfortable ride than it was before, and is better than my reworked S18. I'll continue to futz with the compression/rebound to find a nice compromise between Honda-civic and boat-like, and I've yet to have the wheel in the dirt proper so that'll be another opportunity to play with setup (roots etc. are rather different than pavement defects!). S18 is set for off-road, so that puts it at a disadvantage on piste. Next time I'm out when it's light enough, I'll remount the GoPro and try to make a side-by-side.

Yes, do get the upgrade. No, you don't "need" it, but it really gets the suspension much closer to it's full potential. One of these days I'll get to ride a -S and compare, but I do suspect that this upgrade puts the S22 in the same class for street riding. As a bonus, you keep the 130 mm travel for the really bumpy stuff!

ningning (the source in CN) shipped very quickly and included tracking, the package was well prepared and everything bubble wrapped. There were no missing parts, and the included wheels were probably fine—but I really don't want to have to service this thing so I got super picky. Arrival at my door took (I think) 3 weeks. It was an excellent transaction, I'd buy from him again.

(the wheels with red marks show where the bubbles are... hopefully the marks will stay, but if a wheel fails I want to know if it failed on a bubble)

 

The side-by-side... difficult to see visually (make sure to select HD quality), but I was setting speed by "controllability" and was quicker on the ningning 8s.

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Tawpie

[Rawnei]

4 hours ago, Tawpie said:

I'd start with the Kydex... the mods I've seen it looks like they extend the Kydex 2-3 inches past the front, enough so that at least one maker also added an L-shaped support to buttress it against the front of the case. This is a situation where you'll probably want to have the wheel before you go too crazy—partly because you need to find where you'll be putting your foot. Mine has to be very far forward because of the rear-heaviness of the wheel, much further forward than I anticipated.

@litewave there are so many variations, here is mine for more inspiration.

[Paul A]

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

candled all of the wheels

Melting candle wax onto the slider wheels, to lubricate them?

 

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

bubble free wheels

Bubble on a wheel? 

A defect 'divot', 'bump'?

 

Defibrillator?

 

Thanks.

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

Bubble on a wheel? 

A defect 'divot', 'bump'?

Defibrillator?

Thanks.

POM wheels can have manufacturing defects as in having air bubbles in the material which is missed by the manufacturer/seller due to poor QC, you can see the bubbles if you shine a bright light behind the wheel.

If a POM wheel has an air bubble in it then it can wear down pretty quickly.

[MetricUSA]

I am really pissed alien rides still doesn't have the ks SLIDES in, even though several other sellers already gave out slides out to their customers... What the hell is going on?!? They just shipped my motor back but I do not intend to assemble the ks22 until I get roller slides!!! Will it ever get reassembled again??? 

[Tawpie]

Found this Fox spring rate calculator... it says if I used it I would have saved buying 2 other springs! I set the calculator to 100% rear, 5" of wheel travel, 2.75" of shock stroke (rough, but decent) and it came up with the spring I'm currently enjoying with my ningning8s... 500 lbs/in. Confirmation bias is likely, but pleased to not be tempted to try other spring rates!

https://www.ridefox.com/fox_tech_center/owners_manuals/08/WCeng/Content/mtbspringratecalculator.html

 

[onkeldanuel]

4 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Found this Fox spring rate calculator... it says if I used it I would have saved buying 2 other springs! I set the calculator to 100% rear, 5" of wheel travel, 2.75" of shock stroke (rough, but decent) and it came up with the spring I'm currently enjoying with my ningning8s... 500 lbs/in. Confirmation bias is likely, but pleased to not be tempted to try other spring rates!

https://www.ridefox.com/fox_tech_center/owners_manuals/08/WCeng/Content/mtbspringratecalculator.html

 

Interesting...

[onkeldanuel]

5 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Found this Fox spring rate calculator... it says if I used it I would have saved buying 2 other springs! I set the calculator to 100% rear, 5" of wheel travel, 2.75" of shock stroke (rough, but decent) and it came up with the spring I'm currently enjoying with my ningning8s... 500 lbs/in. Confirmation bias is likely, but pleased to not be tempted to try other spring rates!

https://www.ridefox.com/fox_tech_center/owners_manuals/08/WCeng/Content/mtbspringratecalculator.html

 

How much is your riding weight? Did you count some lbs for the Wheelweight itself also or only your weight? 

[Tawpie]

5 hours ago, onkeldanuel said:

How much is your riding weight? Did you count some lbs for the Wheelweight itself also or only your weight? 

I used 200 lbs total. All geared up I'm 135 lbs, about 8 lbs lighter in the summer (not so many layers of warm clothes). I included 77 lbs for the weight of the wheel, which is probably sort of close (I didn't weight it!). I should probably be more precise, but don't think a few pounds under or over will make a significant difference!

[onkeldanuel]

20 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

I used 200 lbs total. All geared up I'm 135 lbs, about 8 lbs lighter in the summer (not so many layers of warm clothes). I included 77 lbs for the weight of the wheel, which is probably sort of close (I didn't weight it!). I should probably be more precise, but don't think a few pounds under or over will make a significant difference!

Understand...and why used 2.75 stroke instead of 3? 

[Tawpie]

7 minutes ago, onkeldanuel said:

Understand...and why used 2.75 stroke instead of 3? 

70 mm (roughly). The amount of wheel and shock stroke you get evidently depends on where you have the suspension attached to the frame (2 or 3 or other empty holes showing).

The stroke and wheel travel are used to figure out approximately how much sag you'll get (based on a linear leverage curve, the S22 has a rising curve—the shock is more difficult to compress as it nears bottom out). Fox bases everything around sag, so they're making a simplified estimate with "make this adjustment to the results" in the fine print at the bottom of the calculator. Personally, I doubt I'd be able to tell the difference 50 lbs makes in the spring, so I just wanted to be in the ballpark!

[MetricUSA]

Ok finally got the roller slides it but what are you guys putting the rollers on with, I have nothing slim enough to push the thin bushing on to the post!!! The smallest socket I has is still damaging the damn roller!!! It is beveled it the center not touch the 5 mm bushing... 

Damit, I knew they should have just sent the pro slides instead!!! Using screws instead of pressing on rollers you can not get back off!!! 

OK... I am going to use a 5 mm allen (flat) head screw with a nut added for better grip, upsidedown and in a press...🤞

Edited March 9, 2023 by MetricUSA

[Tawpie]

I pressed them on with the 2610 (2") version of this. It's a Pony C-clamp. The 'foot' is 12.7 mm BUT the inner race stands proud above the outer so it only presses on the inner.

 

[MetricUSA]

Holy cow, your rollers as tight mine are??? I only slides in the top three rollers and they definitely did not want to go in!!! The slots are 26 mm wide that the damn rollers are farther apart than that!!! WTF KS??? I am only going to put the eight rollers towards the middle and leaving off tho outer ones... The only bad part is the rollers are not right cross from each other on the two slides.... Oh well that's kingsong... 

Edited March 16, 2023 by MetricUSA

[redfoxdude]

1 hour ago, MetricUSA said:

Holy cow, your rollers as tight mine are??? I only slides in the top three rollers and they definitely did not want to go in!!! The slots are 26 mm wide that the damn rollers are farther apart than that!!! WTF KS??? I am only going to put the eight rollers towards the middle and leaving off tho outer ones... The only bad part is the rollers are not right cross from each other on the two slides.... Oh well that's kingsong... 

I would leave out the middle ones and keep the outer ones - the sliders get torqued by the nature of their mechanical design, and the outer ones will provide better support than the inner ones.

[Gkindy]

On 3/15/2023 at 10:55 PM, MetricUSA said:

Holy cow, your rollers as tight mine are??? I only slides in the top three rollers and they definitely did not want to go in!!! The slots are 26 mm wide that the damn rollers are farther apart than that!!! WTF KS??? I am only going to put the eight rollers towards the middle and leaving off tho outer ones... The only bad part is the rollers are not right cross from each other on the two slides.... Oh well that's kingsong... 

I ended up buying the 8-wheel sliders from Hou NingNing. Totally simple install. Sorry to hear you’re having difficulty with the KingSong ones man.

[UniVehje]

On 7/31/2022 at 9:11 AM, fbhb said:

Not my photos, these are courtesy of Franco, but show the Michelin City Grip 2 90/90-14 mounted to his S22 and as I mentioned earlier (First page) in this thread I already have one that I will be fitting to my S22 when it arrives one day in the distant future!

He stated that it fits without any clearance issues and is very close in diameter to the stock knobby (should be no need for speed corrections to apps), but will obviously comes up wider but Also no issues with the battery boxes being 100mm apart!

Note: I will be fitting mine as a rear, so opposite direction to these photos.

Did you end up installing this tire? Can you share your experience on ride quality?

[fbhb]

2 hours ago, UniVehje said:

Did you end up installing this tire? Can you share your experience on ride quality?

At the time of the above quoted post, I was still waiting on the ongoing S22 issues to be rectified, so I delayed my purchase. In the meantime, the S22 Pro was announced and so I again waited to see how the upgrades to that version panned out before committing my hard earned!

At this stage, I still Do Not have an S22 in my possession (will likely pull the trigger later in the year now, as winter is fast approaching here in NZ) to answer your question regarding fitting the Michelin City Grip 2 that I already have here waiting however, many S22 owners have been very happy with its performance by all accounts!

You will have a better chance of obtaining owners ride quality experience by asking on the EUC Suspension Telegram group, as I believe Telegram members such as Franco and Keith S are among the ones, I know have the Michelin CG2 installed. I'm confident you will find what you are looking for if you go ahead with this specific Michelin option (especially if you install it tubeless), having had great results after over 10,000+ Kms running a Michelin City Pro (albeit tubed) on my Sherman.

Hope this helps.

Edited April 10, 2023 by fbhb

[mrelwood]

54 minutes ago, fbhb said:

(especially if you install it tubeless)

Do you think there would be a difference in behavior when installed tubeless vs tubed?

[fbhb]

7 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Do you think there would be a difference in behavior when installed tubeless vs tubed?

My reasoning for mentioning going tubeless, is the fact that the City Grip 2 is ONLY available in 90/90-14 so it's heavy construction (around 3Kg on my scales) IMO would benefit from losing the added weight of a tube to offset any potential gyro effect!

The S22 rim is a proper "moto" rim with the beads constructed with "lips" to seal a tubeless tyre correctly, so only a bolt through tubeless valve and a high-pressure pump to "pop" the beads into place would potentially be all that's required for install.

[mrelwood]

 

1 hour ago, fbhb said:

IMO would benefit from losing the added weight of a tube to offset any potential gyro effect!

Have you done any calculations that would suggest that it might actually matter? I ask because the spinning parts of the motor itself already weigh quite a few kgs, added with the 3kg tire. 0.3kg of inner tube doesn’t seem like it would matter much at all. I personally didn’t notice any differences in gyroscopic behavior in a tubed vs. tubeless H-666 setup on my V11, despite having a much lighter motor than the S22 one.

1 hour ago, fbhb said:

only a bolt through tubeless valve and a high-pressure pump to "pop" the beads into place would potentially be all that's required for install.

Angled tubeless valve I might add. And who doesn’t have a suitable high pressure pump right in their bedroom, right?!