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V11 Just... Died.


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Hi all.   I just finished up a mid-afternoon commute to the office on my V11.   Beautiful day, lovely temperature, smooth ride.  I got to the door, hopped off, popped the trolly handle and used my keycard on the door.   As I waved to a co-worker the wheel... died.   No sounds or anything, just dead.  Now there's zero sign of life when I hit the power button.  Has anyone come up with a troubleshooting checklist for this sort of issue?  I did check the electrical connector between the saddle assembly and the body; seemed fine.  Not sure where to go from there.... help!

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15 minutes ago, macgyvercanada said:

 As I waved to a co-worker the wheel... died.

Sound like the wheel was jealous.. And now it's ignoring you. :D 

Try sweet talking it? Try taking it to dinner - charge? (Gifts also work.) Maybe jealousy ends and starts talking?

Have you tried giving it a massage - extra long power button press? Or multiple fast power button presses? Nothing? Well.. enjoy the dog house.

Edited by Funky
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12 minutes ago, macgyvercanada said:

Not sure where to go from there.... help!

You may be able to connect to the wheel when you put the wheel on the charger.  If you can try running the diagnostics to see if it detects a fault.  Does the wheel spin freely or is there resistance to spinning the wheel now?

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16 minutes ago, macgyvercanada said:

Not sure where to go from there.... help!

When was this wheel purchased?   How many miles does it have on it?  Where did you purchase it from?  The dealer might be able to help if it's still under warranty.

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13 minutes ago, macgyvercanada said:

Popped it onto the charger: nothing at all.

Fuse makes a whole lotta sense to start with, where on the board is that located?

According to https://ecodrift-ru.translate.goog/2020/12/08/inmotion-v11-izmeneniya-v-dekabrskoj-partii/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=sv&_x_tr_pto=wapp it seems to be a 60A fuse at each bms pcb:

Monokoleso-Inmotion-V11-izmeneniya-dekab

Maybe easier then opening the bms is first measuring voltage at the battery outputs...

Trying each pack seperately, as @alcatraz siggested sounds great. For charging and trying to start the wheel.

 

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26 minutes ago, macgyvercanada said:

Fuse makes a whole lotta sense to start with, where on the board is that located?

fuses are under this piece of paper on the board.

the bms's will be off if they get no signal from the motherboard, so measuring no voltage on the batteries is normal. image.png.2657c002f04bb6ec2a755282bf4c28f8.png

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  • 3 weeks later...

Not yet, haven't even started.  I've been riding my V8F which has made procrastinating a bit easier.  I'm just coming off a couple weeks vacation now and I'm back here to re-read these posts and make a battle plan for tomorrow.  So far the plan is to:

  1. Look for something obviously broken
  2. Try booting up the wheel with only one battery pack connected at a time
  3. Check the control board fuses

I'll be back here to tell the tale of whether or not any of that works.  I'm less comfortable messing with the BMS.

Edited by macgyvercanada
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Next I cracked open the case and removed the motherboard.  Everything looks okie dokie to my untrained eye.  I just nudged the big capacitor aside to peel up the paper a bit and peek at the thin-film fuses, which look fine to me but what do I know?  Not sure what to try next...  Anyone see anything amiss?



 

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Screenshot_20220730-223124_Gallery.jpg

20220730_220859.jpg

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Do you have a multimeter?  Maybe test for continuity?  Maybe there's a short somewhere? 

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I do have a multimeter.  Test... fuses?  What else?

MOSFETs seem OK.  There's no 'cogging' or resistence when I spin the wheel.

I did find damage to the motor wire insulation near the shoulder of the suspension rail, but the wires inside appear to be undamaged:

image.thumb.jpeg.930a22c8dd25d8d50516f4a38bc596ac.jpeg

 

Edited by macgyvercanada
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There should be a "sticky" thread that says how to diagnose such a problem. Ideally we could a wiki section that with topics such as how to check the battery, how to charge your wheel properly, how to change a tyre (I know wheels are different), how to read the battery levels on different packs, how to learn to ride, how to fix a puncture etc etc. 

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14 hours ago, macgyvercanada said:

What else?

The power on butten works? You tried short circuiting the power button pins? Also were the wires from thr button arrive at the pcb? 

You should look how far the battery voltage goes. Can you measure it at the connectors with everything plugged in? Is there voltage at the big capacitor legs?

Next to analyze would be the dc/dc converters. Should be around the coils like the round pieces in the square base labeled 101 and 221 in your pictures?

If you get the label of the used ic you'll find the schematics in the datasheet and know where to measure.

Edited by Chriull
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On 7/8/2022 at 2:12 PM, enaon said:

the bms's will be off if they get no signal from the motherboard, so measuring no voltage on the batteries is normal. 

So this "bms turned off if disconnected" seems to be some contact from the battery connector on the motherboard.

Should be not to hard to analyze? 2 pins for ground and battery voltage and either two more connected on the motherboard by a copper track or resistor. Or just one more pin connecting to either ground or battery voltage pin?

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Quote

 

The power on butten works? You tried short circuiting the power button pins? Also were the wires from thr button arrive at the pcb?

 

Tried that; nothing happened.

Quote

You should look how far the battery voltage goes. Can you measure it at the connectors with everything plugged in? Is there voltage at the big capacitor legs?

Yes, measuring ~78v across both of the capacitors

Quote

Next to analyze would be the dc/dc converters. Should be around the coils like the round pieces in the square base labeled 101 and 221 in your pictures?

I see the items marked 101 and 221...  now how do I analyze them?  

Quote

 

So this "bms turned off if disconnected" seems to be some contact from the battery connector on the motherboard.

Should be not to hard to analyze? 2 pins for ground and battery voltage and either two more connected on the motherboard by a copper track or resistor. Or just one more pin connecting to either ground or battery voltage pin?

 

I don't understand this, unfortunately.  Are you saying that the problem could be a short-circuit from the battery to the motherboard which casues a fault in the BMS?  I'm not sure what to be testing here.

Edited by macgyvercanada
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8 hours ago, macgyvercanada said:

 

Yes, measuring ~78v across both of the capacitors

Great. So battery voltage arrives well at the driver/motherboard.

8 hours ago, macgyvercanada said:

I see the items marked 101 and 221...  now how do I analyze them?  

Just beside the "101" is an ic with 8 pins - if you get his datasheet you have his recommended schematics and can analyze were to measure.

Also on the board without the motor wire connectors and the mosfets is one connector were one sees the labels with 5V and GND. And just the "holes" without the connector installed labeled with 3.3V and GND. And a third place labeled 15V and GND.

So already three great spots to measure if the necessary supply voltages are available at the board.

There seems also some battery on the board B201. Should be checked, too.

There still are many other (smaller) inductances on the board - L1, L2, L4, L5...

Could be some converter with U4? Or also with U1?

On the driver board are also points labelled 15V, 3.3V,... to check supply voltages.

So first check all labeled points for the voltages.

8 hours ago, macgyvercanada said:

I don't understand this, unfortunately.  Are you saying that the problem could be a short-circuit from the battery to the motherboard which casues a fault in the BMS?  I'm not sure what to be testing here.

No. The two small extra pins at the battery connectors are to disable the battery if not connected to the motherboard. (And to signal single cell overvoltage?) As you measured full battery voltage at the capacitor legs this part is working ok at your wheel.

But for others the check just the battery some connector could be made to "activate" the batteries.

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Quote

 

Also on the board without the motor wire connectors and the mosfets is one connector were one sees the labels with 5V and GND. And just the "holes" without the connector installed labeled with 3.3V and GND. And a third place labeled 15V and GND.

So already three great spots to measure if the necessary supply voltages are available at the board.

 

Well I did this last night: zero voltage at these locations!  I assumed it was because the wheel is powered off but perhaps not..?

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