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Angry debates (especially regarding politics) don't belong in electricunicycle.org


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they wont shut down any lefty speech

thats how these forums work

they like their echo chambers

mods, ill kindly have what Shane asked for and delete my profile

Edited by goatman
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There is a very big difference to censorship that intervening. 

To explain this I will draw this to the very extreme. 

If 2 people argue in a public space and it turns into a fight. Who will stop it, people around them or them self? How many get hurt until this happens? 

So it isn't settled so one draws a knife.... 

The other follow... 

Out comes guns... 

Then the later retaliation with granades.... 

Still in the public space. 

This is how gang wars are going here in Sweden where I live now. 

So on a forum. And on this forum it was decided long time back it is a place for every one as long you don't hurt others. Debates are fine, but mods here do a very great job to spill oil on stormy waters to calm things down. 

Interweaning is not the same as censorship. And when people are at distance personal abuse and fighting can still happen. You don't have to agree but to alone all here this is how this forum are as big as it is. This is about respect and coming to terms that opinions do not always join forces but continuous fighting do not help anyone. 

I used to be a mod. I stepped down for different reasons. But the respect to the mods and what they do cannot be explained good enough to how good they do a job that isn't easy at all. And unpaid. 

If you are still angry I suggest take a break. Read this one more time. The go for a ride. You will have a much better day afterwards tjis I can promise. 

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On 7/6/2022 at 6:03 AM, meepmeepmayer said:

Whenever I (very briefly) looked, it got worse and worse with anti-vax crap and "Let's go Brandon" level of political "discussion" and so on.

I don't know about other posters... But are my posts really "anti-vax crap" and "Let's go Brandon"?
Is this post about politics "Let's go Brandon"? Is this post about Ivermectin an "anti-vax crap"😳

I usually try to think about my posts and source the information... My no-topic posts were the same - mainly providing counterarguments to things I disagree with.
 

This answer took me about 50 minutes. Basically all my posts take a long time just to think about them, format them and type them.
I'm not looking forward to a forum where my posts can be removed and called "anti-vax crap" without any explanation.

 

 

I see two major problems - transparency and handling of the situation.


Lack of transparency:

@RagingGrandpa said that "the folks most vocal"... Who? I assume @Paul A and @Vanturion, but can we get any confirmation who was punished?
Can we get any information how were they punished? "Have been given a posting break" tells us nothing.
Can I get an information which rule I broke to have my posts removed?

I have to assume that these two people were banned, as they haven't logged in since Tuesday. If I'm incorrect in that assumption please be more transparent.


How it was handled:

Why did you opt for a ban when a much less severe option would suffice? - That option being closing the topic, moderating a few messages and telling people to stop, at least for some time
Why was the entire topic removed? The problem was with like 10 messages, right? Why remove all 50 pages of discussion?
Why were the posts of completely unrelated people removed?

And lastly... Which rule did I personally break to have my posts removed?

Edited by atdlzpae
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We don't "punish" people here. We mods aren't any poster's parent or judge:) @Vanturionand @Paul A both got a 36 hour posting ban, which is already over now, and everything in that regard is back to how it was before. Nobody got kicked out.

The only purpose of the posting ban was to stop them having a personal fight in a public thread and reporting each other multiple times dealing with a sudden flurry of reports to us mods. That was all. We aren't angry with them or anything, we don't take sides or have opinions on their content (nevermind what we personally may think), it was only to stop the fight. We all want them to come back to good posting as it was before, just not fighting like this please.

And the thread got hidden in the process. In hindsight, with your and Shane's legitimate (one can well argue that way) complaints, I asked if we should maybe restore it (lock it though, it wasn't going to get better, I would strongly say the problem wasn't just 10 messages or so, nobody of us was happy with the overall quality there). Most everyone else was against that, and I can understand that very well. Quite frankly, we worried that this thread (much of it) made the forum look bad, and that's (I say) the one thing we as mods can't have: potentially putting off new people who see something like this and then don't feel like participating here. Some off topic thing is not worth that in a forum about electric unicycles.

@atdlzpaeAs far as my comments about that thread, that were my impressions whenever I had a glance (not that I read that mess!). Nobody says anything more or that is has anything to do with you or that you did anything wrong.

Sorry if you are part of the collateral damage. Do you (or someone else?) truly have some posts in there that you wanted back?

Edited by meepmeepmayer
duly corrected
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1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Nobody says anything more or that is has anything to do with you or that you did anything wrong.

Ok, good to know. Don't worry, I know you guys have good intentions. 😉
I agree with "36 hours posting ban". It just should've been communicated clearly by @RagingGrandpa - otherwise people tend to assume the worst.

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Do you (or someone else?) truly have some posts in there that you wanted back?

I'm neutral. It's true I had a few posts I spent some time on, but it's not like anyone is going to read it. So personally I don't care much.
However, in principle I have to agree with @..... and @goatman. Removing the whole thread is collective punishment. And also counterproductive.

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Quite frankly, we worried that this thread (much of it) made the forum look bad, and that's (I say) the one thing we as mods can't have: potentially putting off new people who see something like this and then don't feel like participating here. Some off topic thing is not worth that in a forum about electric unicycles.

Do you have any data about it? For example number of registrations before the topic started VS now?

A ton of forums have thousand-page threads about everything in off-topic and nobody really cares about it much. I dare anyone to read the whole topic called "No-topic". 😈

In my experience people really don't care about it. If it was in General (and thus in your face), I'd absolutely agree it's out of place.

Edited by atdlzpae
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On 7/8/2022 at 5:46 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

The only purpose of the posting ban was to stop them having a personal fight in a public thread and reporting each other multiple times to us mods.

Alright, I wasn't going to comment on this thread because everything is a hell of a lot less interesting when mods can push the nuke button anytime they feel like censoring a debate negating everyone's efforts, but this is slander @meepmeepmayer . I never once narked on nobody.

So if there was complaining to the mods going on and you claim me and the other guy were the only parties involved, then none of it was coming from me. Also, this should have been obvious from my rhetoric as multiple times on that very thread I made it clear about my feelings toward anyone who got significantly butt-hurt about words on a screen, in general.

So please own up and take that back.

Furthermore, as I remember it before the thread was nuked, the 3 of the last 5 posts were mine, none of which were disrespectful, other than being blatantly "anti-narrative" using a recent study published in Nature as supporting evidence, and then repeatedly drawing attention to that study.

In fact, I was the one being slighted basically being called an "ass" in one of these posts, which I was totally fine with as I'm sure on more than one occasion, that is an accurate description. Again, no reporting happened from my end.

So what do we have here - we have the censorship of an entire thread because, apparently, one guy (based on what you said meeps) is incessantly messaging the mods demanding some kind of recompense for, IMO, getting taken to task in a debate instead of providing any kind of counter-argument. And instead of the mods ignoring what I will assume was the equivalent of whining (which was the advice given to me, hmm kinda hypocritical no?), here we are.

So now after being slandered and basically feeling forced to comment if just to defend my reputation (as what you said really kind of makes me look like a fool considering all that I've posted here), I might as well bring up another point about my 36 hour ban. Because I love transparency, here's the warning I received:

 

Quote
 

Moderators did not find your viewpoints correct or wrong; but you kept fueling a political debate after multiple messages asking for it to stop.

So to be clear dear online discussion forum members, if you are guilty of the crime of fueling a political debate, which I will interpret as posting anything that could be construed as non-mainstream non-government approved thinking that has the potential to trigger other wrapped up in the warm blanket of culturally "acceptable" ideological beliefs, then you could easily find yourself in my position.

Given that we now know that fueling a political debate is against the rules, mods, I expect you will now close the Ukraine thread or Seba's post as well? Or would that only happen if I go in there too for some intellectual sparring and invoke the sentiments of distinguished historical American warlords such as Smedley Butler and General Patton.

Not too worry though, I won't be doing that regardless. Like I said, things are just less interesting now.

Edited by Vanturion
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On 7/8/2022 at 8:49 AM, Unventor said:

This is how gang wars are going here in Sweden where I live now. 

Dear god. I just, I mean how can you not say something here??

So, I could tell you another reason why you now have gang wars in Sweden... you're not gonna like it though... ;)

---

I feel like one of those guys who goes off and commits suicide by cop. "Just shoot me already!" I swear I'm not gonna make it worrying about who I might trigger!

I honestly don't know how the fuck I'm going to make it to old age in this world now.

 

Edited by Vanturion
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3 hours ago, Vanturion said:

I never once narked on nobody.

3 hours ago, Vanturion said:

So please own up and take that back.

Ok, wow, I'm sorry, you are right there. I had a look, all the reports came not from you. You were just the guy reported a lot (a lot of reports came in in short order). I must have confused that.

Not sure I would call it "narking" though. Reporting something you think might be problematic is completely legitimate (if it does not get out of hand like here). Anyways, you didn't report anything as far as I can see.

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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Great, thanks for clearing the air meeps.

Also, it's nice to know that I'm making friends :D.

4 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Not sure I would call it "narking" though

Perhaps a bit of an obscure reference quoting Mark Sinclair Vin Diesel from the American movie The Fast and the Furious considering this is an international forum, but hopefully gets a laugh from someone out there

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On 7/11/2022 at 9:41 AM, Vanturion said:

Dear god. I just, I mean how can you not say something here??

So, I could tell you another reason why you now have gang wars in Sweden... you're not gonna like it though... ;)

---

I feel like one of those guys who goes off and commits suicide by cop. "Just shoot me already!" I swear I'm not gonna make it worrying about who I might trigger!

I honestly don't know how the fuck I'm going to make it to old age in this world now.

 

So let us put it to rest. There are many reasons not just one. 

My point is that small things escalate if none see the direction is heading is a path that just keep getting worse. 

Also I tried to praise that moderators do step in from time to time. Most don't know how much is considered before action is taken. Every situation is handled as by case by case. And it is a tuff balance to let debates flow vs reminding it is a community and not a combat ground. 

To me it a bit baffling how many people always see a negative side of things. I mention this just as a reflection. 

So let's talk about move interesting things as EUCs. 

 

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Sometimes users outgrow a forum’s specific interest. Seen it happen on other forums, usually with the person leaving in disgust or getting banned.

As a forum administrator and moderator on another forum, it is a thankless job.

Best way to administer/moderate a forum is as a benevolent dictatorship.

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EUC circles are like the military, you get people from all walks of life.  CEOs to Burger Flippers, Southern Baptists to Agnostics.   You can debate Belief System differences, but chances are it won't turn out pretty.  It is nearly impossible to change someone's mind on God, Religion, and Politics.  Is it possible to discuss these things without butt hurt... yes... Is it probable?...  No  :) 

I love the unique diversity of the EUC world.  Celebrate it.

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Indeed on the other forums toxic members are banned.

The French forum disappeared because of numerous conflicts between members.

When I arrived on the French forum (2015) everything was perfect: good atmosphere, mutual assistance, advice...

There was a problem hosting the forum site. The creator had accepted the proposal of an EUC reseller. This did not please members of the forum who were customers of a competitor. So they created a second forum. And gradually with internal messages they invited all members to leave the first forum.
The forum closed permanently last year.   :facepalm: :cry2:


It was a great adventure, there were a lot of members, a great EUC-Kickscooter-segway community.

The only thing I didn't like to read was negative opinions about MINI riders. MINI segways have a much lower speed than EUCs or compared to kickscooters. So members would laugh at us or be very discriminating with hurtful words and expressions towards MINI riders. But today France no longer authorizes speeds beyond 25 kmH so we are all at almost the same speed.

I have always refused to be a moderator.
:ph34r:   :eff0541f4a:  :efef77eaf5:     I think the worst are the trolls, we had constantly spammed topics, false announcements, scams posted, it was horrible. Core members spent a lot of time cleaning up spam topics.

In the end it was a dispute over money and attracting customers between the two main EUC resellers in the territory.
France is a very small country, the EUC kickscooters communities are not united. They tried to create a federation of associations of users, of riders, but today it's still broken.


EUC Forum I describe it as an international forum, American first but international, so the point of view must be multicultural. 
When I'm connected to EUC Forum, I try not to think like a Frenchman, just like an enthusiast.
I thought it was only in France that we could have a tense situation in this type of niche product forum. 


Please, I don't want to see this forum disappear; I would no longer have a home, I would feel homeless.
Please keep calm, and pray that you will never be reincarnated as a French citizen euc rider  :roflmao:   (French people are rarely patriotic...)

This post is also proof: if a euc French rider reads it, you will see how it will rot me. :thumbup:

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  • 2 months later...

I think euc'ers are single minded and can't think about anything else but riding euc forever, making tons of videos of themselves, riding over any lands they see fitting, and some have become hoarders of wheels... That's pretty political to me... 

Oh excuse me, I just farted... 

Edited by MetricUSA
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  • 8 months later...

CONCLUSION

EUCs are not the future, but a new way of making money for (in this order): chinese, westerners resellers and a bunch of wannabe businessmen EUC Youtubers. That’s why they are so expensive, and the name of the battery cells, one buys with the wheel, in 90% of cases is not provided by EUC chinese manufacturers and the westerners resellers don’t pressure them in doing so, and EUC Youtubers keep silent on this crucial subject when blabbing about a new wheel.

Obviously, I don’t expect approval on this site. The truth must be said, though.

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Globalists are becoming more and more like Stalinists. I am unvaccinated, so this make me “anti-vax crap”? For my part, I think that the crap is in the vax and those who promoted and defended it. Am I gonna be banned? Am I gonna be canceled? At least I am healthy. (No wonder the correlation between those who promote PEVs, “EUCs are the future”, and pro-vax attitude.)

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@Dan48, was there a reason for you to resurrect an old topic that discussed a certain other topic and how the personal attacks were handled? Sounds like you haven’t even read the thread in question.

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Free speech is a good idea. Some folks define "politics" = " filth"  which gives them a platform for censorship. Dont censor the net let ppl say silly things and clever things. Angry attacks on persons for no reason is a bad idea.

Quote
What is the simple definition of politics?
Politics (from Greek: Πολιτικά, politiká, 'affairs of the cities') is the set of activities that are associated with making decisions in groups, societies, or other forms of power relations among individuals, such as the distribution of resources or status.

 

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