question for the aggressive riders

[RhoadsNRoses82]

This one is for all of you guys out there that ride like chooch or kuji etc...The ones who are really ripping their EUC's to the limit both on and off road, not just someone who has been riding comfortably for a few years.

 

do you guys find yourselves with a skewed foot positioning? as in your right is a bit more forward then your left or vice versa?

I'm starting to notice that as i've gained more confidence/stability, i keep noticing my right foot being slightly forward and i keep correcting it back to even.

I've heard some guys say this is their natural riding position, but i'm just concerned that it may be some kind of compensatory mechanism that is actually a bad habit to get into if you intend to eventually have really high level control of your maneuvering.

 

So that's why i'm wondering how the really advanced guys like chooch/kuji would feel about this skewing of foot placement.

[BlckRck2014]

Yes, a little staggered of a stance

[0000]

I haven't personally studied those guys' foot placement, so I couldn't say how they do it, but I have a good number of trail rides under my belt now so I can weigh in a bit. That said, I know I still have room for improvement for getting faster through corners so take this with a grain of salt.

Currently, on the trail my feet are generally equally spaced front-to-back. I say generally because the placement gets skewed sometimes and it's not a big deal. Where I've evolved a bit is in the width of my stance over the pedals. I'm currently favoring a wide stance with my legs and calves away from the body of the wheel. It's my thinking that I've ended up riding this way on trails specifically because I gain more leverage in pivoting the wheel right-to-left and side-to-side through mechanical advantage.

There are downsides. It's not a very stable stance above 25 mph ish. But on the trails, this usually isn't a problem. I don't know if this is the most ideal way to control the wheel; in fact, if you're interested there's a comment chain in my latest YT video from a guy who was nice enough to explain a lot of nuance he uses in foot placement and stance and he does sound very knowledgeable in his method. It's a fairly long comment chain, so if you're interested in that discussion you can check out my latest vid linked on the Trail Video thread here in this forum. His way may be better. I plan to experiment more in the future, but what I've been doing so far has been working out very well too.

2 more things you may already know. For trail riding, gear aside, I consider some kind of power pads and spiked pedals essential items for success.

I should also say since you weren't asking about trail riding in particular, but aggressive riding in general. The above differs from how I ride aggressively on the tarmac. I don't use the wide-stance, and instead move feet close in and use my calves against the shell to control wobbles if they occur. Sometimes I'll stagger too, but I think there's probably a lot of nuance also depending upon a host of factors including your weight, fitness level and body-type, pedal height and pedal angle, tire profile and tread, your level of fatigue (particularly for feet or ankles), etc.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Vanturion
Tarmac

[Phonoman]

Yeah, I constantly ride my Nikola+ in the traffic 50-60+ km/h and 30-50+km/h when on the sidewalk (when it's safe for everyone involved, ofc). However, I don't do off-roading at high speeds.. because it's a Nikola. My right foot is quite a bit more forward, left is more centered/slightly backwards maybe. That way I feel more nimble to dodge quickly or just more stable when occasional hole or uneven road appears - to let the legs "go through" it. At high speeds I tend to have a bit of a chimp stance leaning over with one shoulder in-front.   At least it feels like it helps with weight distribution either direction if I need to. 

You can just test out different stances by carving a bit more "aggressively" side-to-side, or riding up unto some non-physical object like a shade or physical like the sewer lids (that are safe to cross in all directions, in case you catch the side of it) and experiment how close can you approach it while successfully swerving around it at the last moment. Try swerving out of the way in both directions and you should probably notice what makes what easier and which placement doesn't quite work for one or both sides. 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Phonoman

[RhoadsNRoses82]

5 hours ago, Vanturion said:

I haven't personally studied those guys' foot placement, so I couldn't say how they do it, but I have a good number of trail rides under my belt now so I can weigh in a bit. That said, I know I still have room for improvement for getting faster through corners so take this with a grain of salt.

Currently, on the trail my feet are generally equally spaced front-to-back. I say generally because the placement gets skewed sometimes and it's not a big deal. Where I've evolved a bit is in the width of my stance over the pedals. I'm currently favoring a wide stance with my legs and calves away from the body of the wheel. It's my thinking that I've ended up riding this way on trails specifically because I gain more leverage in pivoting the wheel right-to-left and side-to-side through mechanical advantage.

i know exactly what you mean about wider stance - i have noticed myself trying to adopt a slightly wider stance as my motor skills become more and more fine tuned. it seems like thta should be the ultimate goal, to give the wheel some room to move and still be able to have total control over it.

[RhoadsNRoses82]

4 hours ago, Phonoman said:

Yeah, I constantly ride my Nikola+ in the traffic 50-60+ km/h and 30-50+km/h when on the sidewalk (when it's safe for everyone involved, ofc). However, I don't do off-roading at high speeds.. because it's a Nikola. My right foot is quite a bit more forward, left is more centered/slightly backwards maybe. That way I feel more nimble to dodge quickly or just more stable when occasional hole or uneven road appears - to let the legs "go through" it. At high speeds I tend to have a bit of a chimp stance leaning over with one shoulder in-front.   At least it feels like it helps with weight distribution either direction if I need to. 

You can just test out different stances by carving a bit more "aggressively" side-to-side, or riding up unto some non-physical object like a shade or physical like the sewer lids (that are safe to cross in all directions, in case you catch the side of it) and experiment how close can you approach it while successfully swerving around it at the last moment. Try swerving out of the way in both directions and you should probably notice what makes what easier and which placement doesn't quite work for one or both sides. 

i see ok so sounds like ther's all sorts of asymmetries that you fall into even when you are at that high level of riding. I'm kinda starting to feel them creep up (the shoulder lean forward at higher speeds most recently). So i guess i'll just keep doing what i'm doing. Thanks to all for the input 

[Tazarinho]

I do have a staggered stance, but wouldn't compare myself to Kuji or Chooch, lol

Edited July 5, 2022 by Tazarinho

[conecones]

For road riding, there's a lot of freedom to place your feet however you like and as long as you feel in control, you can rip as hard as you want. This is based on my observations of fast riders as I don't push limits on the road myself. There's a lot of variation of stance seen in online videos too.

For off road, there's a couple considerations but overall, you still need to be flexible in knowing how to ride with your feet in various positions just due to the fact that bumps are going to throw your feet around and you will need to reposition on the fly depending on the terrain. For example, when approaching a steep hill, its good to slide one or both feet slightly forward to get that extra leverage. I ride slightly staggered (maybe an inch) because one of my legs is slightly longer but I also have a bit of OCD trying to even them out when I look down but its more a mental comfort thing. On paper, it makes sense to have both feet even for optimal maneuverability in all situations but our bodies are not built like robots so at the end of the day it doesn't need to be exact. Personally I even out my feet before hitting a narrow skinny feature or on take off from a jump/drop, I find I land with more balance when feet are even vs staggered - but again this is most likely just mental since the stagger amount is only an inch.

The only one "bad habit" foot position that I see from road riders transitioning to offroading is that duck footed stance where the feet are \ \  / /. This is doesn't matter much on the road and you see tons of people riding like that but you won't see any good trail riders doing this - they all have their feet parallel and tight against the EUC body. It requires more hip flexibility and engages more muscles when riding like this but the extra control & additional pedal clearance is much more important. 

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, conecones said:

The only one "bad habit" foot position that I see from road riders transitioning to offroading is that duck footed stance where the feet are \ \  / /. This is doesn't matter much on the road and you see tons of people riding like that but you won't see any good trail riders doing this - they all have their feet parallel and tight against the EUC body. It requires more hip flexibility and engages more muscles when riding like this but the extra control & additional pedal clearance is much more important.

Agreed. Be careful with stance off road... your knees are *really* engaged in the process. If you foot alignment isn't right and you put twisting stress on your knees, it's not good. Especially with spiked pedals.

[.....]

I used to ride with a pretty big offset. It was caused by a weak hip and knee. I also tended to grab the wheel a little excessively with my inner legs. Im not an aggressive rider tho, so it may not matter. After a couple years, I began to adjust my stance for a more mirrored approach. I also dont grab the wheel like I used to. Using Shanespads Micro on my 18xl also made more sense to try and stand evenly. I do ride with my feet as wide as the pedals will let me tho. In fact, the outside toe edge of my shoes is typically hanging off the pedals, along with the ends of my shoes off the fronts.

[Tasku]

On 7/4/2022 at 12:41 AM, EF95 said:

So that's why i'm wondering how the really advanced guys like chooch/kuji would feel about this skewing of foot placement.

In short: Foot placement is not what matters, but how you feel with it, you need to get comfortable. People and their legs are different. Some have one foot longer than other, they still can ride amazing.

But let me just tell you about the good habbits, since you want to avoid bad ones.

Secret to riding lies within knees, start by bending em, yes even with your suspension wheel. One knee slightly to front and the other slightly back. Moving your knees will shift your weight, learn to master em. There will be lot to learn.

When you go into turn you should place weight to your side, toward the outer curve, this way you will not slip the tyre, and even in case of bump the wheel hops up and back, instead of sliding out underneath you.

Carving is easy "hack" to learn to control wobble. Imprint it to your brain. But what matters more is the control-pose. When you feel weight in your opposite feet to your heel and toes - you are in it. If you want to shift the stance to curve you simply switch the knees around (the front and back knee). Add that carve and woah you are able to master the wheel in any condition.

Again it is not the way you place your feet on pedal(but how you distribute weight to your feet and therefore to the pedals), just try to get some pedal underneath, cause that gives you control. Do not lean into the wheel, unless you are going for curve/carving.

Worthy to mention you will encounter wobble in curve, while speeding or decreasing speed and especially in downward hills. To avoid this you need to place weight in opposite legs (toes-heel) and correct your stance to be in balance (comes rather automatic if you bend knees, one knee front one slightly back). I think everyone just has different way to explain this.

Placing weight to knees will give you acceleration without moving your head dangerous position, away from center of gravity of your bodymass.

To HAVE perfect BRAKE POWER, lower your butt(when leaning baclwards, duh), your knees will be bent by default, so simple! Just do not forget to place some weight to the opposite toes (or wobble will follow). Extra cool with this: YOU WILL NOT  FLY off the wheel in case of BUMP while braking, very handy!

------

"Driving as slow as possible is way harder than driving hard as fuck. Also slow driving teaches so much more."
Remember that with great power comes great responsibility.  Wear gear, drive slow to intersections and while others are nearby.

Please do not risk others near you even you think you can master it, have fun!

Edited July 9, 2022 by Tasku