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Seems my bearing are dying.. (It was the valve stem - making noise..)


Funky

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On 7/5/2022 at 11:50 PM, Funky said:

Can't seems to find many "marine" options in my country.. :D I found this one: ADDINOL AQUAPOWER MULTI-PURPOSE GREASE Will this work?

The "food grade greases" don't offer "corrosion" protection - i figure it's good to have?

Originally i used this grease: SKF LGEP 2  Is there big difference? (To me grease is grease.. So i don't know difference.) :huh:

This grease seems to be made from high quality components. I don't know if it is correct for EUC, because the viscosity of base oil is not available. It is excellent against water. Just don't mix different types of greases in the same assembly. Mineral oil and PAO might not mix well. Same thing is for lithium soap and aluminium complex soap.

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42 minutes ago, Eucner said:

I don't know if it is correct for EUC, because the viscosity of base oil is not available. It is excellent against water.

If you scroll down further on the webpage linked by @Funky, it states that the viscosity of the base mineral oil is 200cSt (mm/s) @ 40C, which is equivalent to a SAE-90 gear oil.

Edited by techyiam
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Just now, techyiam said:

If you scroll down further on the webpage linked by @Funky, it states that the viscosity of the based mineral oil is 200cSt (mm/s) @ 40C, which is equivalent to a SAE-90 gear oil.

Thanks. That is on stiff side, but manageable for EUC.

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Try a different brand of bearings. The seals did not do their job. 

It's also possible they got damaged upon installation. They're very fragile.

There are different kinds of seals. 

1. Non-contact

2. Low-contact

3. Full-contact (get this)

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1 hour ago, alcatraz said:

The seals did not do their job. 

@Funky  Come on, fess-up, you thought you got a great deal from a seller with zero orders, no reviews, and ended up with a counterfeit. You felt guilty and even bought a tube of genuine SKF branded grease to compensate. 🙂

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The wheels are made in China and probably come with counterfeits in them. You just need to find a good one, that's all.

Even the reputable sellers can't say for sure that their latest batch isn't counterfeit. There a tons of middlemen. 

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7 hours ago, techyiam said:

@Funky  Come on, fess-up, you thought you got a great deal from a seller with zero orders, no reviews, and ended up with a counterfeit. You felt guilty and even bought a tube of genuine SKF branded grease to compensate. 🙂

I bought them in 9a.lv store (which supposed be a reliable supplier - from SKF homepage..). You can take a look at all of these bearings: https://www.9a.lv/en/catalog/gpic-baaring-stock/pc_be04-bearings/pc_ra53-radial-ball-bearings/pc_de196-deep-groove-ball-bearings/?sort=priceLowest&f=1-40%2C40%3A3-12%2C12

Which one should i get. :D There's so many to choose from..

Edited by Funky
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  • 2 weeks later...

Update:

Good news - the bearings were not at fault.

Bad news - i don't know what's cracking. :mellow: After reassembly the same noise persist..

The search continues.. It can't be the "small" rubber hairs brushing against wheel well - right? (Maybe tire have "shifted" little bit and now one side goes closer to wheel well, making it brush one part of the tire?) Time to burn some hairs. :furious: (Yup. Burning is the fastest way to remove those small rubber hairs.)

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The motor maybe isn't centered.

With kingsong I don't know but with the banana shaped begode shells I had to find the tightest spot (where it rubs a little) and jam a book in there, before I tightened the shell bolts on the pedal hangers. 

Is the tire mounted properly? Maybe there's a slight bulge. Centering is extra important when the tire is new and the clearances small. Also if the shell is old it could flex more. 

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I am just pondering ...

(1) Wheel makes cracking (or crackling) noise when you ride it. Frequency of noise increases with speed. 

(2) The noise goes away if you ride it backwards. 

(3) This should have ruled out bearings. 

(4) This should also rule out rubbing tire.

(5) Doesn't this imply that noise could be coming from inside the motor?

Did you try rotating the wheel with the shell off, while holding on the hangers?

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1 hour ago, alcatraz said:

The motor maybe isn't centered.

With kingsong I don't know but with the banana shaped begode shells I had to find the tightest spot (where it rubs a little) and jam a book in there, before I tightened the shell bolts on the pedal hangers. 

Is the tire mounted properly? Maybe there's a slight bulge. Centering is extra important when the tire is new and the clearances small. Also if the shell is old it could flex more. 

When looking into wheel well you can clearly see gap between wall/tire. Even while spinning.. 18xl shell goes over the "L" hangers - then you screw it on. Wheel is pretty new. Also the noise started happening after 200km ridden on the new tire. So idk.. :D 

 

53 minutes ago, techyiam said:

I am just pondering ...

(1) Wheel makes cracking (or crackling) noise when you ride it. Frequency of noise increases with speed. 

(2) The noise goes away if you ride it backwards. 

(3) This should have ruled out bearings. 

(4) This should also rule out rubbing tire.

(5) Doesn't this imply that noise could be coming from inside the motor?

Did you try rotating the wheel with the shell off, while holding on the hangers?

Everything already was mentioned in first post. (I even changed bearings - again.. Checked for cracked/unglued magnets.. Nothing.) No cracks in shell. Or around "L" hangers.

It only happens when riding power button in front and turning right. Going mud-flap in front, turning left/right no noise. Also the noise doesn't miss any beat while turning. One tire circkle = 1 noise. Faster riding - faster noise. Slower - slower noise. Going straight or turning left - no noise.

The noise is more like tire scraping plastic or something like that - not metallic.. Did not rotate without shell. Doh when "freespining" with hand, you can hear time to time like something is scraping.. But idk what.. Magnets inside the motor was lined and in level. Also you could not screw the motor covers back into place, without centering the motor right in middle of rim. (Even screwing the motor covers back - it levels the motor into place..) Otherwise you could not screw the screws all the way in.

Free spinning nothing indicates that something is wrong with motor - it turns smoothly.. 

Doh after burning the little rubber hairs and now "free spinning". I don't hear any noise at all. Will check later someday when i go for ride. - It would be funny if the small hairs on tire was at fault. But i doubt it was that..

Because the noise is more like hitting rubber hammer. It happens fast and goes away fast, till next wheel circle. - Not like scraping.. Tire is smooth no bulges also.

Edited by Funky
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1 hour ago, Funky said:

One tire circkle = 1 noise. Faster riding - faster noise. Slower - slower noise. Going straight or turning left - no noise.

This got to be key. One noise sound per revolution.  Only turning right. No sound riding it backwards.

Another possibility. Your current H66 tire didn't fit until you shaved off partially the tread blocks on each side. Could it be that one spot is closer to the shell than all others on the right side?  And it would only make contact with the shell when more weight is placed on the right side of the tire. I can't explain the part riding the wheel backwards yet.

Just out of curiosity, with the headlight in front (normal wheel orientation), have you try riding backwards to see whether your wheel make noises? If you can't ride backwards, perhaps you can attempt it along a fence, or a wall for a couple of revolutions.

Edited by techyiam
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1 hour ago, techyiam said:

This got to be key. One noise sound per revolution.  Only turning right. No sound riding it backwards.

Another possibility. Your current H66 tire didn't fit until you shaved off partially the tread blocks on each side. Could it be that one spot is closer to the shell than all others on the right side?  And it would only make contact with the shell when more weight is placed on the right side of the tire. I can't explain the part riding the wheel backwards yet.

Just out of curiosity, with the headlight in front (normal wheel orientation), have you try riding backwards to see whether your wheel make noises? If you can't ride backwards, perhaps you can attempt it along a fence, or a wall for a couple of revolutions.

I have cutted the "knobs" till tire sidewall - meaning if tire would touch, it would be the tire sidewall. (Height wise i still got 1.5cm space - fingers worth of space.)

I simply turn the wheel 180 degree around (Normally mud-flap is in back, after turn around it's in front.) If tire would be rubbing, it would not meter which way i ride, i could hear the noise both ways - no? While riding with mud-flap in front i heard zero noises. :D 

It's doesn't really bother riding.. It's only happens if i do really tight right turn. Like going in circles.. Turning right - then you can hear it alot. "tuk-tuk-tuk-tuk" noise per wheel revolution.

Normal wheel orientation and riding backwards won't do, as i would need to go in circles to hear the noise.. (Also can't yet ride backwards.)

Doing the same while mud-flap is in front, also going in circles right/left - no noise at all.. If it would be tire at fault, i would think it would be rubbing both ways. (It's "bugs" me that i can't seem to find why it's making that noise and only riding wheel front in "front" position.)

 

Edited by Funky
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1 hour ago, alcatraz said:

Don't underestimate the amount of flex that occurs when you put your weight on the wheel.

Are you sure the hangers are fixed onto the axle extremely tight?

Yes - i'm very sure. Because i was already in wheel and redid all the screws. :D As mentioned if tire would be at fault, it would be making the noise riding both ways. No?

Yet when i'm riding "backwards" no noise whatsoever - but doing the same, what i did when i was riding "forwards".

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@Funky This is quite a mystery. Not bearings, not motor, not tire. Hmmmm ..?

Once every revolution. Only makes noise doing clockwise circles. And no noise if riding it in the backwards orientation. 

At the same time, an unsuspended euc has the least moving parts of any vehicle. Just the wheel, which houses the motor, and the wheel bearings rotate.

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34 minutes ago, techyiam said:

@Funky This is quite a mystery. Not bearings, not motor, not tire. Hmmmm ..?

Once every revolution. Only makes noise doing clockwise circles. And no noise if riding it in the backwards orientation. 

At the same time, an unsuspended euc has the least moving parts of any vehicle. Just the wheel, which houses the motor, and the wheel bearings rotate.

It could be the air valve maybe. :D The angle comes out of rim "right" side. (I figure when valve is on ground, it maybe gets pressed somehow.. Wen tire presses inwards.) I got it kinda "loose" in the rim hole - but it also doesn't explain only clockwise oration noise. Maybe force from going "forwards" presses it somehow different?

K66 tire sidewalls are "thicker" the velve gets kinda stuck between tire walls.. So it's kinda loose in rim hole.

Will put rubber ring round it and check if i still get the noise while riding - then i will know it's the "valve".

Edited by Funky
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On my Tesla a new inner tube replacement resulted in the valve pointing out a bit more than before. I thought the valve was hitting the shell but it was actually the tip of a (too long) screw sticking out into the wheel well. Sometimes the smallest clearance isn't where you think it is. Put it on a table, on its side, use a torch and light up the wheel well nice a bright and spin the wheel by hand and look deep around in there. Repeat for the opposite side. You'll usually see something. Dirt is your friend here because where it rubs there usually isn't any.

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8 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

On my Tesla a new inner tube replacement resulted in the valve pointing out a bit more than before. I thought the valve was hitting the shell but it was actually the tip of a (too long) screw sticking out into the wheel well. Sometimes the smallest clearance isn't where you think it is. Put it on a table, on its side, use a torch and light up the wheel well nice a bright and spin the wheel by hand and look deep around in there. Repeat for the opposite side. You'll usually see something. Dirt is your friend here because where it rubs there usually isn't any.

Bro.. i did that the first day.. :D It's been weeks now.

Did you really think i would have not done that - before opening the wheel. :D I already had my whole wheel disassembled, because i thought something was scraping inside the motor.

I even had put "towel" around tire and let it true wheel well. (I thought maybe a "branch" has caught onto heatsink.) Before i opened the wheel.

Edited by Funky
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25 minutes ago, Funky said:

It could be the air valve maybe. :D The angle comes out of rim "right" side. (I figure when valve is on ground, it maybe gets pressed somehow.. Wen tire presses inwards.) I got it kinda "loose" in the rim hole - but it also doesn't explain only clockwise oration noise. Maybe force from going "forwards" presses it somehow different?

K66 tire sidewalls are "thicker" the velve gets kinda stuck between tire walls.. So it's kinda loose in rim hole.

Will put rubber ring round it and check if i still get the noise while riding - then i will know it's the "valve".

But I specifically went back to your H66 thread to check the picture showing the tire valve. At least in the picture, the valve didn't stick out to the side that much. I was going to ask you which side is the tire valve on.

I see what you are saying now. The valve itself is making the noise. That is a worthwhile idea to test out. It would make perfect sense, and can explains all your noise symptoms. 

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1 hour ago, alcatraz said:

Then I'm guessing it's likely poor bearing alignment just as I said in my first post. The stator is hitting the rotor (housing) under certain conditions.

(Or too much play in the bearings.)

You can't really align the bearings.. As they sit inside motor cover. Also as i said before, i had ridden many kms. The noise started happening suddenly, out of nowhere. (Last week i even changed them again.) Meaning i was inside motor "reinstalling all". And still noise persists. When i was looking at the magnets, there were no scrapes and wear on themselves. So motor is "aligned".

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

But I specifically went back to your H66 thread to check the picture showing the tire valve. At least in the picture, the valve didn't stick out to the side that much. I was going to ask you which side is the tire valve on.

I see what you are saying now. The valve itself is making the noise. That is a worthwhile idea to test out. It would make perfect sense, and can explains all your noise symptoms. 

Yeah. It doesn't "stick" out, but the hole in the rim itself are bigger diameter than valve stem. It has like 2-3mm play both ways. I literally can move valve around the hole.

My guess: Valve coming out of rim at right side. When turning right - tire gets suppressed harder, making valve stem move and it springs back making that noise.. We will see later, when i go test ride someday. :D 

I ride 28psi so tire is "softer" under my 280lbs body. So it would make sense about valve. We will see..

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  • Funky changed the title to Seems my bearing are dying.. (It was the valve stem - making noise..)

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