Broken axle on KS 16X? Worst crash ever!

[Funky]

23 minutes ago, Vanturion said:

Ergh, making me work here. See if these help.

 

^^^ That's the "inside" part of the axle.. The part after the bearing and closer to "motor" itself. (Yes i see the weak point the "C" cutout.)

23 minutes ago, Vanturion said:

Ergh, making me work here. See if these help.

"If" 18xl wires goes like in the image. I'm 80% sure that hall sensor wiring went right into the "axle".  Past that "grey O" ring. (Making it the same as 16x..)

Fuuu.. My head hurts. 

You are talking about "if" the wires goes like in that video 18xl. I'm talking about the 16x wires and how they go..  Which i think was the same for my 18xl, but i'm not 100% sure. < There was all the confusion.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Funky

[0000]

Oh yeah, you're right. I should've watched the original video to the end, I thought the picture I posted was the inner portion of the axle facing out. The picture I used was actually the outer snapped off portion of the axle facing in like you said where the break occurred more inbound than I would've suspected from what I was saying earlier. Well shit.

I was assuming that it was impulse forces from the vertical load path that caused the failure, but it didn't have to be. @ElectronxCycles could have had a bad pedal strike to cause some weird loading on the pedal hangars at some point to get the cracks to initiate axle which were then exacerbated over time from regular use as he did say he wasn't doing anything outside of normal riding at the time of the failure. In any case, I suppose then that there isn't any remarkable difference between the 16X and 18XL axle designs that I can tell at a glance without taking diameter measurements for example.

So yeah, definitely be careful. Better yet, sell and move onto a wheel with a modern pedal hangar design.

 

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Vanturion said:

Oh yeah, you're right. I should've watched the original video to the end, I thought the picture I posted was the inner portion of the axle facing out. The picture I used was actually the outer snapped off portion of the axle facing in like you said where the break occurred more inbound than I would've suspected from what I was saying earlier. Well shit.

I was assuming that it was impulse forces from the vertical load path that caused the failure, but it didn't have to be. @ElectronxCycles could have had a bad pedal strike to cause some weird loading on the pedal hangars at some point to get the cracks to initiate axle which were then exacerbated over time from regular use as he did say he wasn't doing anything outside of normal riding at the time of the failure. In any case, I suppose then that there isn't any remarkable difference between the 16X and 18XL axle designs that I can tell at a glance without taking diameter measurements for example.

So yeah, definitely be careful. Better yet, sell and move onto a wheel with a modern pedal hangar design.

 

Yeah those "modern design" wheels weight a lot more.. I need somewhat portable wheel for 4km rides to/from job. I mostly ride asphalt and over curbs i go at walking/running speeds.(Those small curbs where baby carriage can drive on.)  Heck i don't even jump down from "regular height" curbs.. So i think i will be fine. My riding path more or less are flat, some of those "small baby" curbs - none big curbs..

(Good luck selling this thing. Even "if" i wanted too.. It has M/C tire. Hextech pedals. Some scrapes.) + I bet no one would pay 1800euro for this thing in my country. (It even has under 400miles.)  As i don't ride that "much".

I personally would have been happy with ks16s. But my weight + my speed needs. 18xl was the lightest wheel.

I would love to maybe buy V12 HT as it's only 5kg more heavy - i would be fine with 5kg more.. But that wheel has other kind of problems.  

I wonder when will they start remaking "lightweight" wheels..

Edited June 30, 2022 by Funky

[0000]

7 hours ago, Funky said:

Yeah those "modern design" wheels weight a lot more.. I need somewhat portable wheel for 4km rides to/from job. I mostly ride asphalt and over curbs i go at walking/running speeds.(Those small curbs where baby carriage can drive on.)  Heck i don't even jump down from "regular height" curbs.. So i think i will be fine. My riding path more or less are flat, some of those "small baby" curbs - none big curbs..

(Good luck selling this thing. Even "if" i wanted too.. It has M/C tire. Hextech pedals. Some scrapes.) + I bet no one would pay 1800euro for this thing in my country. (It even has under 400miles.)  As i don't ride that "much".

I personally would have been happy with ks16s. But my weight + my speed needs. 18xl was the lightest wheel.

I would love to maybe buy V12 HT as it's only 5kg more heavy - i would be fine with 5kg more.. But that wheel has other kind of problems.  

I wonder when will they start remaking "lightweight" wheels..

*insert "doyouevenlift.jpg" meme*. Haha anyway, I hear ya on the selling bit.

Well the same advice applies to the 18XL if you wanted to reduce your risk while keeping the wheel. You could have find+pay a machinist to press in out old axle and fabricate a custom axle in the same/similar dimensions using a higher strength metal of known quality and maybe reduce the size of the wire pass-thru and round out the sharp edges to remove the stress concentrations of the new axle at the same time too. Just saying, that's definitely an option.

---

One more thing, not necessarily to you specifically Funky, but for completeness in what I was saying earlier...

It's been a while, but I remembered shear-moment diagram calcs from statics. On the entire length of the axle between the bearings where the axle was weakened for the wire pass-thru, while you don't have shear stress from normal vertical loads, you do have bending moment stress induced by the load bearing pedal hangars attached to the axle. So yeah, definitely not an ideal axle design with all of the contributing factors mentioned previously.

[RoboFixIt]

Been talking to King Song the last few days and have an update, KS has been really nice with answering all my questions and concerns and I will still be happy when I get the s22. So the axle on the 16X is fabricated with cast iron... I have been speechless after finding out about this because cast iron is great for tools, frying pans and outer shells for farm equipment parts etc but not a axle for a machine going 50km on public bike trails.

Basically you can smash cast iron with a hammer and that's makes it useless as an axle. I'm reading debates if cast iron should be safe to use with lawnmowers and wondering what KS was smoking. This maybe a "Controlled Obsolescence" thing where it's basically made with cheap parts so you buy a new one in a few years. If you do a bit of research into Controlled Obsolescence you will be pretty pissed as I am.
 
BTW I would not not jump with your EUC for now until you find out if your axle is made with forged metal

[Tawpie]

20 minutes ago, ElectronxCycles said:

if your axle is made with forged metal

I think you'll discover that with the possible exception of the EX20S pretty much everything metallic, including all the rims, started as a casting… unless it's plastic. The pedal hangers might be forgings, but as was pointed out by @ShanesPlanet, every corner that can be cut, has been cut.

20 minutes ago, ElectronxCycles said:

I would not not jump with your EUC

And if you're riding an older wheel like the 16X, stairs are also not advised. The 16X has been known to blow fuses when it lands. They weren't built for the modern riding style.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Tawpie

[0000]

1 hour ago, ElectronxCycles said:

So the axle on the 16X is fabricated with cast iron... I have been speechless after finding out about this because cast iron is great for tools, frying pans and outer shells for farm equipment parts etc but not a axle for a machine going 50km on public bike trails.

Mother of god.

Welp, thanks for figuring that one out and letting us know.

Everything I said to Funky with getting your axle pressed out and custom machining a steel one. Yeah, highly recommended there if you're going to be using this wheel long-term.

Edited July 3, 2022 by Vanturion

[0000]

2 hours ago, ElectronxCycles said:

BTW I would not not jump with your EUC for now until you find out if your axle is made with forged metal

You mentioned in your video you got the worst injuries yet from this wreck. What was the damage?

[Funky]

10 hours ago, Vanturion said:

Everything I said to Funky with getting your axle pressed out and custom machining a steel one. Yeah, highly recommended there if you're going to be using this wheel long-term.

Even if i wanted to do that - i don't know where, how, or what to do..  

It would be "great" if kingsong had the axle 3D drawing with all the measurements.. Could simply copy that and send out to "cnc workshop" make new axle.

Edited July 3, 2022 by Funky

[RoboFixIt]

On 7/3/2022 at 4:34 AM, Funky said:

It would be "great" if kingsong had the axle 3D drawing with all the measurements.. Could simply copy that and send out to "cnc workshop" make new axle.

Good idea maybe if everyone asks king song to send the blueprints for the axles they will have no choice lol

[RoboFixIt]

Check out the axle on one of the InMotion wheels!

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by ElectronxCycles

[Funky]

6 hours ago, ElectronxCycles said:

Good idea maybe if everyone asks king song to send the blueprints for the axles they will have no choice lol

As your 16x needs new "axle" try asking them?  Maybe they will be helpful for once?  

Edited July 6, 2022 by Funky

[Funky]

I was inside my wheel motor again. I figured same time i'll update about my axle on KS18XL. This is how mine looks:

 

One side.

 

Other side.

Looks little bit better than on 16X.  

Edited July 15, 2022 by Funky

[Tazarinho]

On 6/29/2022 at 9:01 PM, ElectronxCycles said:

I will upload a video on the crash soon, I'm hurt pretty bad so taking it easy for a while...

Hope your recovery is going well! 

I would be interested to know what was the straw that broke the camel's back and how exactly you crashed. Was it while jumping, curb hopping, riding one-legged, hitting a bump? Or did it just give out while you were cruising near top speed? 

Since a few days I have a slight rubbing noise when riding one one foot. While I don't see as much give as on the video you posted on the other thread I'm wondering if shearing has started on my axle. It kind of detracts from the enjoyment of my daily commute as it involves a few curbs, some off-roading and a bit of cobblestones.

[RoboFixIt]

On 7/15/2022 at 10:19 AM, Funky said:

Looks little bit better than on 16X.  

Looks a lot better for sure. Yeah I miss the 16X so much now... been riding an s18 since the crash, it looks really nice but not as comfortable to ride but still it's the z18 is really growing on me. I'll get a new motor soon and bring the old 16x back to life

[techyiam]

On 7/15/2022 at 10:19 AM, Funky said:

I was inside my wheel motor again. I figured same time i'll update about my axle on KS18XL. This is how mine looks:

 

One side.

 

Other side.

Looks little bit better than on 16X.  

That is interesting. I have opened up a first generation? 18XL, and on the hall sensor wire side, the hole in the axle is much smaller.  The size of the hole is just large enough for the hall sensor wires to go into the axle.