A message to the Russian-speaking riders

[Seba]

As most of you probably know, I am the developer of the EUC World app that many of you use. Working on the development of EUC World takes me a lot of time, I put all my knowledge and passion into it and I am glad that thanks to my work and dedication, you can use a convenient and useful application for your wheel. Whatever I do, I do for the entire community, regardless of nationality, gender, age, skin color, religion, political views etc. Actually, it's all about passion we all share - EUC riding. 

I am the deveoper who created both the application and the EUC World website. Being Polish, I am also the author of the Polish translation. The other translations available in EUC World were created by other users who put in their time and commitment so that the EUC community can enjoy an application and website that works in their language.

It should not surprise anyone that the French language in EUC World is the work of a French user, just like the Spanish language is the work of a user from Spain and the Greek language is the work of a Greek user. However, Russian translation has been created and was maintained by a Ukrainian from Kiev. This Ukrainian, after Russian bombs started falling on his city, demanded that his work be removed from the EUC World project. Fairly understandable decision, don't you think?

It was my legal obligation to fulfil demand of the man who owns the copyright to his work. And the fact that I completely understood his intentions and fully agreed with him is irrelevant here. In this hard time I also wove a Ukrainian flag into the app's logo to symbolically express my solidarity with my Ukrainian neighbors. But no restrictions or limitations were applied to Russian or Belarusian users. Not a single, smallest one.

Unfortunately, since then EUC World project and I personally have become targets of various attacks from many users, mainly from Russia or Belarus (based on IP geolocation). The screenshot below is just one of the less aggressive examples, because calling me a "political prostitute" is actually one of the milder insults I received to date. I always wanted to separate EUC World and myself from the world of politics, but today the bitterness spilled over, as I cannot get past the claim that Russian people has never attacked anyone.

 

Dear Russian-speaking riders,

you deserve to know some historical facts which are well known all over the world, but which your government propaganda may try to question or falsify. In 1919 Soviet Russia attacked the Polish state which was just being reborn after many years of slavery. Fortunately, this attack was repulsed. When on September 1, 1939, Hitler's Germany attacked Poland from the west, sixteen days later Stalin's Russia dealt us a stab in the back, effectively forcing the fighting Poland to surrender with an attack from the east. A year later, in 1940, Russia massacred members of the Polish intelligentsia at Katyn. Twenty-two thousand Poles were murdered by a shot to the back of the head. In light of these facts claiming that Russia never attacked anyone is just a lie that harms the memory of victims. 

In many countries propaganda is a tool for influencing public opinion and often tries to distort or even falsify both history and reality. But it's we that builds the future by seeking for the truth. By knowing the history we can make a better future. But by falsifying it, we won't make the world any better.

I never forget or deny the merits of the Red Army soldiers who liberated the Auschwitz concentration camp. There are lot more great pages from Russian history. But we cannot pull from the pages of history only those events that make us heroes, while hiding those pages that tells about the evil we have done to others. It is a great pity that the heroism of the Red Army soldiers was covered by the shame of rapes, murders and robberies which these soldiers committed en masse on Polish lands.

I admit that there are also pages in Polish history that no Pole should be proud of. In fact, such pages can be found in the history of every nation. For the time being, however, it was Russia which attacked Ukraine, and it is Ukrainians, not Russians, who are fleeing from war to countries such as Poland. This is the truth. I personally helped people and families that fleed from Ukraine due to Russian aggression. If Russia were the target of Ukraine's aggression, the EUC World app would feature the Russian flag woven into the logo and I would be involved in helping Russians. After all, I have friends in both Ukraine and Russia.

My dream is to live in peace and friendship and that the EUC community to be united regardless of the language used by its members. EUC World is as open to everyone, regardless if he or she is from Russia, Belarus, Germany, Poland, Ukraine or any other country in the world. I didn't introduced any restrictions and all features are available without any limitations based on nationality or location of users. The only exception is removal of Russian translation on request from its author, but I explained it before. And I am extremely happy that still there are Russian, Belarussian and other Russian-speaking users who express understanding and respect for my work. Even if they don't share my point of view on some things. I'll keep working on EUC World for entire community, regardless of the nationality of their members. But please, don't attack me or my work. This is how aggression starts.

[OliG]

Total support Seba. 

It's sad to see our beautiful community sullied by such comments when it would be so much more glorious to simply remain united around our common passion for our electric vehicles. 

I wish all of our friends who have to endure this conflict, that is beyond most of us, no matter where we are, better days ahead. 

[Unventor]

I stand 200% behind you on this @Seba.

This is why we should all as much as possible challenge when someone starts to restrict freedom of the press and when government start to take over with censurship or restrict access to the outside world to limit people option to get information to do their fact vs fake news.

Unfortunately too many spread fake news and propaganda without consequences. 

The government or state should never be in control over TV stations or press or judges. Once a government or state go down that line is it a path of slippery slope. 

To me it so unbelievable stupid that a modern country inflict war on another country no matter where it happens. Those resources and lives waster could have been used so much smarter. 

Yes I come from a country that had war as its culture. But we learned by now it is not a good way to go about things. The smarter choice is to make friends and though friendship biuld something better for all. It should never be profitable to wage war on someone else. So I hope the aftermath will teach others what mistake Russia made.

Unfortunately Putin will not be the one to pay the bill. We normally don't discuss politics here. But this is one country as a aggressor and committing war crimes on Ukraine. That said this is likely to feed retaliation reactions that is not great either. But Russian solders and their henchmen are not on their land at the moment no matter what their try to use as excuses. 

 

[OldFartRides]

Human bigotry seems to know no limits.

Much love and respect Seba.

[Wolverine]

We have all seen science fiction films and learned from history how people/nations can be forced to live in their own world, in their own little bubble so that they don’t know the truth. It creates a completely new kind of faith, and faith is a powerful tool that can cause a lot of trouble in the hands of the mad. There are many nations on earth that live in isolation from the rest of the world, and they do not know what the real situation is. Even people living in the same country can understand the world completely differently. Since I speak Russian myself (one of the many languages), I have visited local libraries to read Russian-language history books while traveling in Russia. The people there are learning history that has not really happened, the books are full of false information. The books state that Finland attacked Russia, Russia saved Poland, Russia saved Estonia, and so on. It is repeatedly pointed out in the history books that Russia does not harm anyone, instead everyone harms Russia. As incredible as it is, they truly are living in their own world.

@SebaPlease don't take these things to heart and also don't let these things bother you. You are doing a fantastic job for our community, and you have our full support!

[UniVehje]

Unfortunately a large part of Russian population is lost to propaganda for good. They might not believe their own misinformation completely  but they also don’t trust any Information anymore. That’s the main goal of their rulers. Most seem to sign out of their responsibility by saying they’re not political. Very few are aware of what’s happening. 
 

Seba, I think your response here is spot on. Thank you and sorry you have to deal with this. 

[0000]

3 hours ago, UniVehje said:

They might not believe their own misinformation completely  but they also don’t trust any Information anymore.

I think there is some real gold in this statement. The key as I see it is for men everywhere to lose all faith in not just statist propaganda, but in the authority of the state.

If men from Russia and men from the Ukraine refused to pick up arms to attack others, no matter what ancient racial hatred exists in the hearts of other men driving them to convince other's to kill, then without anyone to do their bidding, you have no more wars. The politicians certainly won't pick up arms and their financial backers certainly won't be the ones doing the fighting.

Personally, I believe it is the responsibility and duty of people everywhere to lose faith in the authority of the state - you even saw it here in the comments yourself from Seba, all governments at some point incentivize men to commit acts of evil and make up justifications for why they are right in convincing young men lacking wisdom to put themselves in harms way for the interests of the state, which translates directly into the personal interests of those sitting atop at the apex of the state hierarchy. Interests which oftentimes not only do not serve their soldiers' individual interests (just look at how many broken people come through the VA if they even make it back), but sometimes directly conflict with the fundamental value system of those misguided warriors' who would claim to be fighting for in the first place. For example, see the spreading of "Democracy" in United States foreign affairs and the utterly fake justification of removing of non-existent WMDs in the wars of aggression in the Middle East. Just how many European governments went along with that utter sham now?

I also remember when the state of Russia made American independence possible in the first place by assisting in our war of separation from the oppression of the British empire. After this rebellion, humanity got some of the greatest political documents in human history that attempted to codify into law the strongest protections for individual freedom and liberty. This lasted, IMO, up until we largely lost our sovereignty, once again, to the very same type of European central banker who controlled that British empire, with the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913. Anyway, does this act of benevolence from Russia back the state of Russia carte-blanche in our estimation of their action's today? Of course not. What can be said here - sometimes the interests of the ruling-classes align, and sometimes they do not.

Because of the internet, I think humanity, collectively, have had access to more than enough information to make this determination in finality.
No men willing to fight = no more wars for politicians, bankers, and other oligarchs who enjoy playing the grand game of empire (controlling other people).

It is both the existence of the state hierarchy as well as the both the ignorance and willingness of men to believe in their authority and in their lies that grants the "masters" of the ruling class their ability to oppress others. The loss of faith in these master-->slave hierarchical systems = freedom for normal people living everywhere.

The ultimate enemy to this kind of individual enlightenment that could lead us to a kind of collective freedom from wars and from "masters" is censorship. I say this as our own empire here in the United States has recently created a literal Ministry of Truth.

Anyway, Seba, thanks for the great app. Please sell us a version that never requires an internet connection to function.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Vanturion

[Unventor]

I couldn't help thinking about you post @Seba.

One thing that stuck with me was the argument from what has been done in the past. 

Now I strongly have an opinion that the past matters. But it doesn't let anyone to do a few good acts to a green card to do a horrible thing. 

And what is going on right now is plain wrong with the war between Russia and Ukraine assisted by the Western culture. It is time to back out and think about how a few men can decide it is okey to kill this many people and do so much damage to other people property and some people still think this is acceptable. 

That said it is hard for a bee to explain to a fly why honey is better than poop. 

But I still think we owe it to the next person to you to stand up against fake news/properganda/lies/censorship when every we come across this. There should be better "food" for a nation than this negative "poop". And on a global scale too. 

How the moral compass got so out of alignment is simply beyond my comprehension. I guess that is my limitation. 

[Planemo]

I think you certainly did the right thing in agreeing to remove the Russian translation if thats what the Ukrainian translator requested.

I am struggling to understand why the translator felt the need to do this though. I deal with Russian people most days and don't treat them any differently to before the war started. That said, Russian bombs aren't falling on my head either. But I don't think I could change my view or stop assisting an entire nation based on the lunacy of a few.

The fact you have been getting hate as a result of withdrawing the RU trans is shocking though. It shows complete ignorance on the posters inability to comprehend that it was not based on anything to do with yourself.

[Paul A]

18 hours ago, UniVehje said:

Unfortunately a large part of Russian population is lost to propaganda for good.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2022/03/international-news-russia-kremlin-media-censorship/627120/

March 22, 2022

How Western News Is Getting Around Putin’s Digital Iron Curtain

For years, Putin has overseen a sustained crackdown on press freedom in Russia—a process that in recent weeks claimed two of the country’s last remaining independent news broadcasters, TV Rain and Echo of Moscow.

Now, thanks to the Kremlin’s latest censorship law, many of the West’s major news outlets have been forced out of the country too, and millions of Russians find themselves blocked from accessing numerous major social-media platforms as well as anything resembling free and independent news.

 

Russians are, however, finding technical workarounds to sidestep the government’s bans, some of which have been encouraged by international news outlets that are keen to maintain a digital presence in the country, even if they can no longer claim a physical one.

 

In the weeks since the Russian invasion began, demand for VPNs in the country has skyrocketed by more than 2,500 percent compared with pre-invasion levels, according to Top10VPN, an online VPN tracker.

 

For all the Russians who have been able to access independent news and information using various circumvention tools, millions more remain firmly ensconced within the Kremlin’s echo chamber.

Although its influence in Russia has been in decline, state-run television still remains the primary source of news for as much as 62 percent of Russians, according to a 2021 study by the Moscow-based Levada Center, Russia’s last independent pollster.

 

“If you’re a middle-aged person who is not really on the internet, who is maybe supportive of Putin and the government, and you’re watching TV, as most Russians of that age do, you will definitely be exposed to a firehose of propaganda about how bad the West is and [how] Russians are under attack,” Jill Dougherty, an adjunct professor at Georgetown University and CNN’s former Moscow bureau chief, told me.

_____________________________________

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-atlantic/

• Overall, we rate The Atlantic Left-Center Biased due to editorial positions and High for factual reporting based on excellent sourcing of information and a clean fact check record.

---

Detailed Report

Bias Rating: LEFT-CENTER
Factual Reporting: HIGH
Country: USA
Press Freedom Rank: MOSTLY FREE
Media Type: Magazine
Traffic/Popularity: High Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: HIGH CREDIBILITY

 

[0000]

10 hours ago, Paul A said:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-atlantic/

• Overall, we rate The Atlantic Left-Center Biased due to editorial positions and High for factual reporting based on excellent sourcing of information and a clean fact check record.

---

Detailed Report

Bias Rating: LEFT-CENTER
Factual Reporting: HIGH
Country: USA
Press Freedom Rank: MOSTLY FREE
Media Type: Magazine
Traffic/Popularity: High Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: HIGH CREDIBILITY

 

Paul, riddle me this.

If someone has already decided not to trust the Atlantic in general, or the author of this article, Yasmeen Serhan specifically, based on the actual words that Yasmeen has written, in what world would a rational and critically thinking person then accept and believe the assurances of trust of completely unnamed and anonymous strangers operating under the umbrella entity mediabiasfactcheck.com?

mediabiasfactcheck.com is ran by Dave Van Zandt who quote:

Quote

is assisted by a collective of volunteers and paid contractors who provide research for many sources listed on these pages

The Atlantic, like any other news publication, attempts to fulfill a need in the marketplace, the need being peoples' desire to be informed of what's happening in the world. That said, just exactly whose need does the so-called Fact-Checking organizations fulfill when more and more people are legitimately making the choice not to trust most if not all "official" media outlets after recognizing bias that they fundamentally disagree with?

Here's a thought, just spit-balling here, but rather than having the state expend resources figuring out new ways to manipulate people to get them to trust the state-approved sources of propaganda "news" now by relying upon anonymous propagandists Fact Checkers to attempt to bolster public trust in state-approved narratives, they could instead teach those people to think critically in school. Or, another thought, they could just stop lying, whether through the use of anonymous experts, with fake economic simulations and models, or by changing long-standing definitions, or by omission, or just directly.

Currently and historically, the standard Prussian Education model used in the vast majority of the West habitually reinforces, for sometimes over 2 decades depending upon the amount of indoctrination an individual is exposed to, that all truth flows from an authoritative source (the teacher). I've observed that this form of trust in authority, in the minds of the indoctrinated educated, is then transitioned to absolute faith in the benevolence of government, as an institution and as the Authority, despite mountains of evidence to the contrary.

Just think, if people were taught en-masse to think critically, which just means the ability to entertain, recognize, and accept truth/reality outside of the group consensus model (another word for peer pressure) that the state relies increasingly upon to exert their influence and control over the masses, then just who would sign up to fight the ruling-classes wars? Who would fight for Russia to kill Ukrainians, who would fight for Ukraine to kill Russians, recognizing the futility and waste of killing others because the financial backers calling the shots and ordering their puppet politicians around decided they wanted to play the game of Empire. Who would support printing endless amounts of debt "money'" to build more weapons, more drones, and more bombs to kill people?

Riddle me that, fact-checkers.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Vanturion

[Paul A]

 

54 minutes ago, Vanturion said:

rather than having the state expend resources figuring out new ways to manipulate people to get them to trust the state-approved sources of propaganda "news" now by relying upon anonymous propagandists Fact Checkers to attempt to bolster public trust in state-approved narratives,

 

News sources in Western democracies are not predominantly operated by the State.

They are independent.

However, propaganda can still flourish.

Fox News in the US is in example.

 

propaganda

 

noun

1. information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view.

   "he was charged with distributing enemy propaganda"

[0000]

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

 

 

News sources in Western democracies are not predominantly operated by the State.

They are independent.

However, propaganda can still flourish.

Fox News in the US is in example.

 

propaganda

 

noun

1. information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view.

   "he was charged with distributing enemy propaganda"

Dear god, it's like conversing with a banana.

*robot voice* thank you for that definition, I was previously using that word, but never knew what it meant. Nor have I ever considered the implications of the merger of the private sector and the state, particularly when it comes to the distribution of information crafted to specifically to shape public opinion in support of obvious political agendas.

*robot voice cont'd* All western media is completely free of the influence of the state, the merger of the private sector and the public sector has never happened before, and is certainly not happening now to result in the increasingly totalitarian system of oppression we are currently absolutely not hurtling toward.

*robot voice* CNN and MSNBC the paragons of personal liberty, and absolutely do not exist to control what people think. (6 second clip, can skip to 35s if ya like)

Oh and raising the mind-specter of Faux news like it's not run by Rupert Murdoch's NYC-elitist World Economic Forum worshiping spawn, you're totally disconnected from reality.

Remember, when Newt Gingrich got on Faux to bring attention to the Open Society Foundation's founder George Soros funding the Antifa and BLM riots of 2020, and the Faux news host immediately jumped down his throat?

Can't talk about the source of real domestic terrorism on fake opposition Faux under the rule of the neo-bolsheviks. I see a lot of the "totally independent" nonsense you repost here, and frankly you live in a completely state-sponsored propaganda fantasy land bubble which cannot stand in the face of anyone willing to call out BS as I'm currently doing here.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Vanturion

[Tawpie]

shouldn't this discussion be in topic that has no topic? plenty of  already there!

[0000]

3 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

shouldn't this discussion be in topic that has no topic? plenty of  already there!

It's already in Off-Topic and discussions evolve. Is that not the point of Discussion Forums?

It always baffles me when people want to put a stop to disagreements online. Is someone's feelings going to be hurt? Goodness me.

Even if you disagree with me vehemently here... are you, at least, not a little bit entertained? ^{Is this not why you are here?}Or is conformity at all costs, even in semi-anonymous message boards, the only game in town now?

Not really addressing most of this post to you specifically Tawpie, just sayin'

[Tawpie]

I'm easily entertained...  and that's why I'm never asked to be a mod!

Seba's statement here is heartfelt and important, I think it deserves to remain focused.

[0000]

1 minute ago, Tawpie said:

I'm easily entertained...  and that's why I'm never asked to be a mod!

Seba's statement here is heartfelt and important, I think it deserves to remain focused.

Fair enough, but I think I can say with certainty that no one here is going to be attacking Seba and his post will still be standing at the top regardless of how muddy things get below.

In fact, he'll get nothing but praise for his work which obviously has benefited the community immensely. The worst he'll probably get from the forum is posts like mine clamoring for an offline version because I don't want to be tracked by my f***ing Google Alphabet Slave Tracking Device smartphone everywhere I go on my Freedom wheel. This does not appear to be forthcoming though, c'est la vie.

So his post, effectively, appears to be a much needed vent. Ain't no one here going to solve the problems of governments creating ignorant people and propagandizing them in order to get them to do completely idiotic things like pick up arms to go kill people in lands where they don't belong. Or sit on their Airforce supplied couch, with their Raytheon x-box controller and drone weddings.

This sentiment goes just as much for NATO as it goes for Russia. There are no "good guys" when it comes to matters of "playing" Empire IMO. And as far as I'm concerned, in online discussions, there is no sacred ground. If you are going to make definitive statements about war and reasons for invasion, you must also be willing to defend those ideas because it's the merits, the logic, the rationale of your arguments that really matter, not who you are or what you've done.

[Freeforester]

 

 

[goatman]

its a blue and yellow nuclear button

 

[Chriull]

On 6/29/2022 at 11:45 PM, Vanturion said:

banana.

Please regard the forum rules.

If one cannot stand other members the forum offers the great possibility to ignore them.

[enaon]

On 6/30/2022 at 1:26 AM, Vanturion said:

but I think I can say with certainty that no one here is going to be attacking Seba

I cannot resist 

the statement is that we want to stay out of politics, 
yet the Ukranian flag is on the eucworld for some time now. 

the statement is that one must respect Intellectual property and remember his history, 
yet eucworld is a closed source fork of palachzzz's wheellog, he is russian if my memory serves me right.

I think the intensions of keeping politics out of the hobby are very poorly executed in this thread. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by enaon

[Chriull]

7 hours ago, enaon said:

yet eucworld is a closed source fork of palachzzz's wheellog, he is russian if my memory serves me right.

As far as i remember this statement does not work out.

Yet EUC World is a 100% independend software.

Wheellog was founded by @JumpMaster.

Sometimes @Seba was wheellog developer/maintainer, then he started his EUC World development as a fork of wheellog.

In these times also @palachzzz started contributing to wheellog and was sole maintainer/developer when @Seba switched 100% to EUC World.

@Sebarewrote everything from scratch about the time he got all the technical details from Kingsong by signing a NDA.

And settled his "exit" from the wheellog fork with @palachzzz.

BTW - as it seems wheellog is now maintained by paymicro on github?

Hope i got everything about right. This was already some years ago...;)

[enaon]

8 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Hope i got everything about right. This was already some years ago...;)

I forgot about @JumpMaster 

I agree that all this is ancient history, a little more modern that what the red army and Poland and the pope did back in the days, but not hobby related nevertheless. 

[nsauk]

@Seba it may be surprise to you or anyone here, but Russians actually have a cracked version of your app that have 1) all the premium features without payments, 2) Russian translation regardless of the desire of its author and 3) logo without the Ukrainian flag (author call it 'politics'). I forgot to report it the first time I found out, and this thread became a reminder.

I'm not sure if it's ok to post here a link to Russian forum with a cracked APK, so I'll send it to you by email.