Jump to content

Thoughts on the Sur-Ron or Electric Dirt Bike?


Recommended Posts

The Sur-Ron Light Bee is somewhere between a regular Class 2 E-bike and a E-dirt bike. Since it is a dirt bike, it can be ridden through all terrains and seasons. Initially, I was looking at e-scooters until by chance happened upon EUCs. I was also interested in class 2 e-bike (no pedal assist) but good speed plus range costed too much. The Sur-Ron is expensive for what you get since it is not quite a dirt bike---it only weight around $125 lbs, 25 lbs more than the Bogode Monster Pro. Unlike regular Dirt Bike, the Sur-Ron is unfortunately made in China.

Dirt bike in general look very fun, and something I always wanted. Grant, e-dirt bike is something else entirely, but the low weight makes it less dangerous, and since you can outfit it with pedals, you can also ride it on the sidewalk (I think).

I have never ridden an EUC or dirt bike before so for those off you who have, could you describe your experience with both, and how do they compare to each other? Both PEVs would allow me to ride in all seasons, which is really important since we get 6 to 7 months of snow here. 

I am also in the process of finding the right health coverage, and without it, I feel a bit weary getting an EUC. Was watching PEV crashes yesterday and realized that I still do not have health insurance yet, and if anything were to happen to me, I am SOL. 

The Sur-Ron is a fast bike that can easily reach 60mph in around 7 to 8 second. I am not 100% sure if it classify as an e-bike or a motorcycle? Regardless, the Sur-Ron would be a much safer vehicle than an EUC with some drawbacks.

The reason why I want an EUC so much is because the Nikola AR+ can be ridden in all season, portable and always with me, coolest mode of transportation, good speed & range, don't have to pay for parking, and make a great conversation starter. It is also unique in the world of transportation, where as a e-dirt bike is a lesser and more expensive version of a regular dirt bike. 

I will still get an EUC regardless, but probably after my health coverage kick in first. 

Decisions...decisions

Thoughts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bit of a random comment but you did ask for thoughts..

I rode the other day with a guy who had a DualTron Thunder 2.

I have to say I was impressed. About the same range as my Sherman and capable of 60mph. Build quality was really nice as well, way beyond EUC's.

It slid nicely into the size gap between an EUC and an ebike. Indeed, he took it into the pub with us and charged up just the same as we did.

He had no problems keeping up with our wheels on the asphalt/light trails we did.

If the legal situation in the UK doesn't improve soon I could be tempted to sell my Sherman and get one. Of course the Thunder 2 would never be legal either, but at least it looks like an escooter so would be more likely to get left alone than a glaringly obvious EUC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Planemo said:

Bit of a random comment but you did ask for thoughts..

I rode the other day with a guy who had a DualTron Thunder 2.

I have to say I was impressed. About the same range as my Sherman and capable of 60mph. Build quality was really nice as well, way beyond EUC's.

It slid nicely into the size gap between an EUC and an ebike. Indeed, he took it into the pub with us and charged up just the same as we did.

He had no problems keeping up with our wheels on the asphalt/light trails we did.

If the legal situation in the UK doesn't improve soon I could be tempted to sell my Sherman and get one. Of course the Thunder 2 would never be legal either, but at least it looks like an escooter so would be more likely to get left alone than a glaringly obvious EUC.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. The Dualtron Thunder 2 is really fast, I watched this video below and I was pretty shock at its speed. But in the comment section, the uploader said that person in the video sold his Dualtron Thunder 2 to get an EUC instead. 

Beside the Korean build Rion Re90 ($7000 and 75-80mph), the Dualtron is probably the best e-scooter brand out there. 

Before I discovered EUC, I was going to buy the Vsett 10+ which like the Nikola AR+ is the most bang for your buck at that price range. Basically less range but more torque than the AR+ and within the same pricepoint. Also probably more dangerous. 

https://www.ewheels.com/product/vsett-10-1536-1680wh-battery-2x-1400w-motors/

I hope your situation in the UK improves but at least you are not this guy.....

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah I guess it's horses for courses. My buddy has no interest at all in swopping his Thunder for an EUC, just not his thing. He had the previous version as well, so he's just settled into his scooters. It's great though, it's nice for us wheelers to go out with scooters and not have them limiting our range/speed which often happens on models lower down the range. So it's all good :)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I rate the VSett 10+ above the Dualtron, also in terms of bang for buck, but that’s only my opinion. It’s certainly a more potentially dangerous mode of transport than the EUC though, and needs to be treated with respect, it’s extremely powerful in highest setting and 2WD.

There is a new Sur Ron challenger on the market too:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/24/2022 at 8:20 AM, Planemo said:

Yeah I guess it's horses for courses. My buddy has no interest at all in swopping his Thunder for an EUC, just not his thing. He had the previous version as well, so he's just settled into his scooters. It's great though, it's nice for us wheelers to go out with scooters and not have them limiting our range/speed which often happens on models lower down the range. So it's all good :)

 

I couldn't agree more, though e-scooter now are faster than EUCs. This is my dream scooter---Weped Dark Knight. 

 

21 hours ago, Freeforester said:

I rate the VSett 10+ above the Dualtron, also in terms of bang for buck, but that’s only my opinion. It’s certainly a more potentially dangerous mode of transport than the EUC though, and needs to be treated with respect, it’s extremely powerful in highest setting and 2WD.

There is a new Sur Ron challenger on the market too:

 

Competition is always good for customers. It's too bad the greatest e-dirt bike ever made no longer exist.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pooscout - depends on your use-case, but you ever think about an e-MTB instead? A lot of Pros going that route and few Cons. With a little bit of DIY aided by a plethora of YouTube How-To's you can have a sub 35 MPH bullet-proof BBS or BBSHD conversion fairly easily. Can serve the dual purpose of commuter and lower-powered, but still insanely fun dirt bike for singletrack and such while not drawing as much attention as something like a Sur-Ron would, if any at all. And of course, all of this for less $$$$.

I see you mentioned weight and health insurance as factors - I think my full-suspension BBSHD rig weighs around 60 lbs, so about half the weight of a Sur-Ron, but still plenty of range with a 14S6P battery configuration. That said, you can still manage to get yourself injured pretty easily failing at jumps and such. If you don't need the excess speed (although you can get more with more money and mods), an e-bike conversion like this is tough to beat IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Pooscout said:

Competition is always good for customers. It's too bad the greatest e-dirt bike ever made no longer exist.

...

Some of the best comments are from company insiders posting anonymously. Quoting their comment cause it's interesting:
 

Quote
Chesthair Ascot
I'm one of the EE's that put about a year of work into the battery in the company's early days. There was lots of problems with Alta.. Engineering management knew how to make an awesome race bike, but they didn't understand how to run an engineering team.
 
Funding was on ongoing issue.. Motorcycles just aren't all that popular in the US (as compared with Europe and South America), and that meant that most of our investment had to come from overseas. We ended up with an absurd number of small investors, which just complicated everything. We never had a VC firehose.
 
I still remember sitting at the conference room table when the 2012 release deadline was announced. At that time, our battery was still blowing bond wires regularly, and we still had a mountain of lessons to learn. Hell, we didn't even have any sort of formal requirements management. You should have seen the battery boards before I joined. They were designed by someone that came out of the maker community, but that didn't yet know how much he didn't know.
 
After I'd left the company (due to a toxic manager), I'd heard of an incident where a test rider ate shit hard on pavement. Despite being a pro racer, the telemetry showed he was putting a lot of front brake it while putting in a lot of power. Knocked him clean out. When the paramedics were lifting the bike off him, they grabbed it by the throttle grip, which was still active. Put power to the rear wheel and ran him over AGAIN. That's the story of how that bike got a tilt sensor.
 
Despite that, we actually did a ton of work on safety testing, and I do consider the redshift to be a safe product (aside from being a scary fast dirtbike.) Two memorable tests- Dropping it from the ceiling of the machine shop (it was an old brewery building 1398 Bryant St, San Francisco) to simulate missing a double. Shook the entire building. Bike didn't care. The other good one was PPR testing on the battery. The emergency exhaust vents were undersized, and when we intentionally cooked off a battery cell to trigger the failure, it ended up blasting one of the endcaps off the battery housing. It flew about 100 feet across the parking lot and left a corkscrew of smoke behind it in a ballistic arc.
 
The bike was actually made to compete against 250's, not 450s. We ended up making it way too good for 250's though, and it didn't quite have what was needed to race against 450's. (This is my understanding from a few years back.. I never actually followed how it did in the races.)
 
As far as a sellout to Harley- that would have been well after I had left the company. Most everyone at Alta thought that the Livewire was a bit of a UX trainwreck though, so it's possible that attitude could have contributed. Our approach was to make a dirt bike that looked and felt like a normal dirt bike. (As opposed to the trend of making EV's look dumb so that people know they're an EV.)
 
If you want to hear something amusing though- The inverter architecture and firmware was repurposed by a Croatian contractor from something else that was intended to be used on electric mine carts (IIRC). I never dug into that subsystem, but I later heard that the PWM signals to drive the inverter fets was bit-banged -_-

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

There's a mix of EUCs, skateboards, scooters, onewheels, and electric bikes at every Saturday Night Ride in Seattle. Some of the bikes are basically bicycles that just happen to have motors, while others - including the Sur-rons - are basically motorcycles that just happen to be electric. Compared to the rest of the contraptions in the crowd, they seem like another game entirely. The rest of machines are like walking, but faster, or like bicycling, but less effort... and then there are the Sur-rons, which clearly motorcycles, but quiet.

Riding an EUC on city streets and bike paths feels like bending the rules a little bit... The Sur-rons meanwhile are just blatantly unlicensed vehicles. :) 

They look very, very fun though. If I had a place to store one I'd probably join them.

So anyway, if storage and parking are not a problem, an electric motorcycle is a more capable vehicle for everything but crowded sidewalks. If you want to be able to blend in  with pedestrians on sidewalks and foot paths / bike paths, an EUC is a better choice. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later...

I am still waiting for the manufacturers of electric motorcycles to integrate EUC sensors and controllers into their bikes, so once you lift the front wheel beyond a certain angle you can choose to have it transform into an EUC and can wheelie stable all day long, just like a switched on V11 that you move upright from its kickstand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...