Anyone had this major bruising experience?

[conecones]

On 6/18/2022 at 9:22 PM, EF95 said:

i tried some riding in a parking lot for half hour and riding on asphalt is way easier than on bumpy grass thats fo sho. I got more comfortable with leaning to accelerate now, it definitely needs to come more from the body. I didn't calibrate anything on the wheel tho. do i need to? it seems fine...besides, the app won't connect to the bluetooth this entire day lmao...now i gotta trouble shoot that

I recommend against messing with your settings right now, and just leaving everything stock. Align your foot so that the ball of your feet is at the front of the pedal (with the toes overhanging). This is a good starting point since it is easy and natural to put weight down on the balls of the feet.

Honestly you just need to ride more and most of these pain related issues will sort themselves out. Adjusting pedal angle and softness seems great but at this time what your body needs to learn fast is repeated muscle memory. If you keep changing settings thinking it will "solve" some issue (without giving your body time to adjust), then your muscles have to re-learn. Get to 1000 miles, and I bet 90% of problems are gone.

This seems to match what I've witnessed, the guys that ride well can do so with any settings, while the guys who obsess over every detail in the settings are forever messing with the settings. One of the joys of riding EUC is its simplicity! 

[RhoadsNRoses82]

1 hour ago, conecones said:

If you keep changing settings thinking it will "solve" some issue (without giving your body time to adjust), then your muscles have to re-learn. Get to 1000 miles, and I bet 90% of problems are gone.

thats a great point, i won't change any settings for now. I am definitely noticing the issues working themselves out as i ride more

[winterwheel]

Those videos simplify things for beginners. Bigger wheels and advanced riding allows for more refined techniques. I've been riding and teaching for years, I'm at least as much of an expert as Adam would be.

[rcgldr]

3 hours ago, conecones said:

Align your foot so that the ball of your feet is at the front of the pedal (with the toes overhanging).

Honestly you just need to ride more and most of these pain related issues will sort themselves out.  ... muscle memory.

The how to ride EUC videos recommend riders start off with their feet centered:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZQsEJ88Dj4&t=75s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6o8ZMlo5ko&t=17s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW-y5RiecMc&t=412s

Looking at videos, Kuji Rolls, Monokat (Kate), Wrong Way (Adam), Rose,  Nick, and Wen from EUCO ride with their feet centered. Chooch Tech has his feet a bit back in his V11 review video, but that may be due to riding off road, since in his commuter video on a 16X, his feet are centered. Jeff from EUCO rides with his feet a bit forwards, but less than 1/2 inch forwards.

Some riders have ridden for over 2 years and are still having foot or calf pain when riding for longer periods. In my case, wearing shoes with stiffer soles but more cushioning on the inside seems to help. One of the paved bike trails I ride on is a bit bumpy, and when I switched shoes, I feel the bumps less. I'm riding a V8F and have tire pressure at 40+ PSI since it's a thin tire.

Edited June 20, 2022 by rcgldr

[conecones]

54 minutes ago, rcgldr said:

The how to ride EUC videos recommend riders start off with their feet centered:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZQsEJ88Dj4&t=75s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6o8ZMlo5ko&t=17s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW-y5RiecMc&t=412s

Looking at videos, Kuji Rolls, Monokat (Kate), Wrong Way (Adam), Rose,  Nick, and Wen from EUCO ride with their feet centered. Chooch Tech has his feet a bit back in his V11 review video, but that may be due to riding off road, since in his commuter video on a 16X, his feet are centered. Jeff from EUCO rides with his feet a bit forwards, but less than 1/2 inch forwards.

Some riders have ridden for over 2 years and are still having foot or calf pain when riding for longer periods. In my case, wearing shoes with stiffer soles but more cushioning on the inside seems to help. One of the paved bike trails I ride on is a bit bumpy, and when I switched shoes, I feel the bumps less. I'm riding a V8F and have tire pressure at 40+ PSI since it's a thin tire.

The V11 is a little sluggish compared to some other wheels, so it benefits from having you foot forward of the center. If you are average shoe size (9-12), having the back of the shoe aligned with back of the pedal is usually the sweet spot - this will leave some toe overhang with the ball of your foot on the front of pedal.

Videos are great and all but what's better is more time spent on your wheel - everyone rides slightly different. Nadia (the girl that hits huge jumps) has half her foot coming off the front of the pedal on her S18 because she's trying to maintain speed when landing jumps. This only works for her because she is so light. Best not to emulate what's on videos and trust what your own body is telling you.

Regarding foot/calf pain when riding longer periods - this will never go away. The real solution isn't about how riding mode, pedal angle or shoes  (although they mitigate to a certain extent), because you are still just leaning forward mostly and tiring out the same muscles. The actual solution is to NOT hold the the same position for the whole ride, which means alternating foot position and seated riding. Same reason why walking for 2 hrs is less painful than standing in the same spot for 2 hrs.

[Freeforester]

If in due course you get into the habit of carving a little, you’ll tend to find that the foot pain may well be much reduced: the slight movements of the feet in order to achieve this seems to help considerably. All in good time!

[rcgldr]

5 hours ago, conecones said:

The V11 is a little sluggish compared to some other wheels, so it benefits from having you foot forward of the center. If you are average shoe size (9-12), having the back of the shoe aligned with back of the pedal is usually the sweet spot - this will leave some toe overhang with the ball of your foot on the front of pedal.

I mentioned that Chooch Tech has his feet backwards of center on the V11, heels hanging off, toes behind front edge of pedals. Link to time in his video that shows this. Pause the video at 2:39 to see his foot placement (I set link to start at 2:38):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22pWDObTByI&t=158s

However, Chooch has his feet centered on a 16X riding in the streets of New York in his commuter video. His shoes have pointed toes, but it appears his feet are centered or nearly so. Cool part at a bit past 3:30 into the video where he split lanes between cars and a k-rail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GdkBSaoAII

I don't know if Chooch's backwards versus centered foot placement is due to V11 versus 16X and | or off-road versus street.

Edited June 21, 2022 by rcgldr

[conecones]

1 hour ago, rcgldr said:

I mentioned that Chooch Tech has his feet backwards of center on the V11, heels hanging off, toes behind front edge of pedals. Link to time in his video that shows this. Pause the video at 2:39 to see his foot placement (I set link to start at 2:38):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22pWDObTByI&t=158s

However, Chooch has his feet centered on a 16X riding in the streets of New York in his commuter video. His shoes have pointed toes, but it appears his feet are centered or nearly so. Cool part at a bit past 3:30 into the video where he split lanes between cars and a k-rail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GdkBSaoAII

I don't know if Chooch's backwards versus centered foot placement is due to V11 versus 16X and | or off-road versus street.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Do you not believe that having your feet more forward will require less leaning & effort to accelerate/maintain speed? EF95 asked whether it was normal to have to ride on the toes and I was responding to this. There's no problem riding with your feet back or centered, it just makes you work harder to go forward. Since most of EUC riding is going forward, I think it's beneficial to optimize foot position for slightly more comfortable acceleration, at the cost of having to squat a bit harder on braking.

Overall though, I don't think foot position is very important until you start pushing the limits, for example trying to get up a 40 degree slope or holding high speeds. In these situations having your foot forward is very helpful to give you proper leverage and reduce fatigue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrsJ3QIXKtQ&t=30s&ab_channel=ElectricDreams&t=30s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5ki31f2NMI&ab_channel=JimmyChang&t=6m12s
Similarly, when I have to go down a very steep hill that's near the torque limits of the RS-T, I would slide my feet back to give myself more control.

[rcgldr]

2 hours ago, conecones said:

Do you not believe that having your feet more forward will require less leaning & effort to accelerate/maintain speed?

Yes, but that increases the effort to brake. 

EF95 bruising of the inner calf muscles issue seems to be related to squeezing the upper pads too much, as opposed to foot pain or back of the calf muscle pain.

 

[winterwheel]

FWIW my personal evolution was:

Phase 1: small wheel short distances: all good

Phase 2: large wheel, long distances, feet centered and even: mucho foot pain on long rides

Phase 3: Feet forward and even: no foot pain, hard to brake

Phase 4: Right foot forward only: all good

N.B. on steep downhills I still slip my right foot back some to ensure I have enough braking

N.B. I don't use power pads, I barely use any pads at all, so MMV

N.B. The only time I ever 'squeeze' the wheel with both legs simultaneously is if I am battling to get my heavyish posterior up a steep incline.

[RhoadsNRoses82]

19 hours ago, rcgldr said:

EF95 bruising of the inner calf muscles issue seems to be related to squeezing the upper pads too much, as opposed to foot pain or back of the calf muscle pain.

 

It was actually from me learning to freemount before ever trying to ride (pressing my leg into my EUC like craazy while mounting). But i got past that now. I'm now on my 3rd day riding, everythin feeling much better. max speed like 21 mph so far, rode around about 1.5 hours straight no foot pain. BUT, the next thing that's giving me trouble is wobbles when accelerating. I have this spinal asymmetry issue which actually extends down through my pelvis and down my left leg...that seems to be making it more difficult to get full stability. BUT this activity is actually helping balance out that twist and unwind it, which is amazing. And i always sense the wobbles really early on n stop them. so i guess it will just be a matter of practice practice practice.

i'm really starting to feel the beauty of this thing lol it's so sick

[Hellkitten]

Awesome progress! 🤘🏽🤘🏽 Wobbles are really common, especially in the beginning. Honestly you’ll get better at dealing with them the more you ride. I mostly get them only during hard breaking and sometimes steep cornering. I find carving helps and putting some slight pressure at the front of one pad and some on the back pads as well, sort of diagonal bracing. 

Having one of these has transformed the way I move through the city I live in. I randomly explore more, I look forward to commuting, I’ve met new people that I never would have, I go outside regularly. It’s a ton of fun.......

 

[mikko]

@EF95 Lower tire pressure and slight warm up or an occasional sprint with the wheel might help while you're tuning your brain into it. I learnt to ride during the winter and had to run just to unfreeze my toes. Noticed that it gave a lot more smoothness and control too.

Wobbles are oscillation and how you deal with oscillation is by damping it out - smooth muscles and a smoother tire help and stiff muscles and a stiff tire will worsen it. Once you learn to relax and trust the whole contraption more and overall get more tuned into it that should help too. I found riding very slow, as in behind a group of people without passing, helped a lot with the tuning in part as opposed to just rolling forward without doing much.

Edited June 27, 2022 by mikko
Typos

[RhoadsNRoses82]

so regarding dropping tire pressure - i am about 190 pounds, and i think i pumped it to 35 PSI. You would suggest dropping it lower?

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, EF95 said:

You would suggest dropping it lower?

A long time member @ShanesPlanet had this advice, which is solid gold. Why? Because I do the same thing, so obviously he knows what he's talking about.

Start with a pressure that's a bit higher than you think you should run. It'll probably feel skittish and a tad dangerous. Then let a little bit out. Ride for a while to see how it feels, then let a little more out. Repeat. When you find something you like, use any pressure gauge to find out what that is. Then use that very same gauge whenever you need to pump your tire up. At your weight, I'd stop letting air out at 25 psi give or take unless you ride on really nice pavement all the time.

The absolute number doesn't really matter much... you want enough air so you don't get pinch flats or dented rims (governed a lot by how and where you ride—drops, stairs and potholes mean you must run higher pressure even if it's less good) but not so much that the tire profile is pointy (makes the wheel squirrly) or it's so hard it's rattling your teeth.

[mikko]

17 hours ago, EF95 said:

so regarding dropping tire pressure - i am about 190 pounds, and i think i pumped it to 35 PSI. You would suggest dropping it lower?

Try both extremes on a good surface, very stiff and very low pressure and you'll know the difference in feel? Even as low as 20-25, but be careful with curbs, potholes, drops. Then follow what @Tawpie said above.

Lower pressure = also lower mileage & somewhat faster tire wear

It's right where it feels right and where you won't dent the rim. Any rubber and mileage spent on feel is well spent, until you start to feel like it isn't =p

[Funky]

20 hours ago, EF95 said:

so regarding dropping tire pressure - i am about 190 pounds, and i think i pumped it to 35 PSI. You would suggest dropping it lower?

I'm 280lbs and ride at 28psi. You will be fine.. Try 30. (Anything over 30psi - i get that "ridding on knife edge" feeling.)  

Edited June 27, 2022 by Funky

[Hellkitten]

I’m around 155-165lbs with gear. I ride at 30psi as does another guy I ride with. Seems to be a nice middle ground of slightly squishy, but not rim denty. 

[360rumors]

From v8 when I was still learning. 

[RhoadsNRoses82]

20 hours ago, 360rumors said:

From v8 when I was still learning. 

haha finally im not the only one!