Anyone had this major bruising experience?

[VikB]

I learned to ride first and then learned to free mount. If you can't ride the EUC then free mounting will go pretty ugly since the second you get that second foot on the wheel you either ride away or fall off. If I had tried to learn to free mount first I would likely have given up EUCing a long time ago.

[winterwheel]

We've been teaching people to ride for going on four years now. They get two hours of lesson and then they're good to go. The vast majority of the lesson is about mounting and dismounting safely with tons of repetition of that. Students used to get super sore as described in the OP. We've changed the pads up on our training wheels so there no single points of contact on the legs, and students get a pair of canes to use while they are getting the mechanics down.

I've found that teaching people to ride before teaching them to mount and dismount properly can lead to fairly severe crashes.

[.....]

1 hour ago, winterwheel said:

We've been teaching people to ride for going on four years now. They get two hours of lesson and then they're good to go. The vast majority of the lesson is about mounting and dismounting safely with tons of repetition of that. Students used to get super sore as described in the OP. We've changed the pads up on our training wheels so there no single points of contact on the legs, and students get a pair of canes to use while they are getting the mechanics down.

I've found that teaching people to ride before teaching them to mount and dismount properly can lead to fairly severe crashes.

To get in a severe crash, you gotta be capable of getting moving tho. Sounds like success either way

[winterwheel]

Anyone can ride a wheel if it has enough speed, it does all the balancing for you.

[Paul A]

11 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

Anyone can ride a wheel if it has enough speed, it does all the balancing for you.

 

Wheel momentum Walter Lewin

12,397,458 views

 

[Tawpie]

8 hours ago, EF95 said:

Yea I am now seeing a lot of advice

Haha. Lots of advice, right? And mostly all different? These are all ideas, different things work for different people—I spent a day falling off trying to free mount and finally got it and moved on to 'riding'. Which was more like falling/jumping off while in motion than riding. But everyone is different and this holds for pretty much every aspect of riding. You should ponder and maybe try all the ideas and find the ones that work for you.

There is one thing I think everyone would agree about in the early stages: do not feel bad about taking a break.

It'll help you heal up (learning is difficult enough without adding pain to the mix), but more importantly your brain does strange things when you sleep—one of which is it figures out how to ride a self balancing wheel. I went for 20-30 minutes max each session for about the first week. After a couple-three days I was pretty good at figure 8s and could ride longer without getting exhausted. But in the beginning, keep your sessions short!

Edited June 16, 2022 by Tawpie

[rcgldr]

13 hours ago, winterwheel said:

I've found that teaching people to ride before teaching them to mount and dismount properly can lead to fairly severe crashes.

To clarify, the recommended sequence from Kuji Rolls, Wrong Way, and others, is to first learn to dismount, then learn to ride using support for mount and launch, then free mount. Prior to any of this, a rider will do the normal pre-ride stuff, like rocking back and forth with support to get used to how a wheel will respond.

This is what Kuji Rolls shows in his how to ride EUC video. Wrong Way doesn't go into detail other than to note his girlfriend Monokat (Kate) used support to mount and launch and had ridden for 60 to 80 km before free mounting which she got on her second attempt in his video. The point of this sequence is a rider is learning one new skill at a time, not multiple skills at the same time, such as attempting to free mount before knowing how to balance or turn. Similar to Monokat, since I could already dismount and ride, there was no need to do one foot glide drills, just push and step on. She got it on her second attempt, I got it on my third attempt, my only time on grass, after leaning enough to compensate for the grass.

10 hours ago, winterwheel said:

Anyone can ride a wheel if it has enough speed, it does all the balancing for you.

True, explanation below:

10 hours ago, Paul A said:

Wheel momentum Walter Lewin

A wheel becomes stable at sufficient speed due to camber effect, not angular momentum. For a given wheel, tire, and tilt angle, camber effect will tend to turn wheel and rider at a fixed radius, independent of speed (within reason, as long as lateral loads don't flex contact patch inwards). If a rider keeps his feet neutral so that the wheel leans the same as the rider, then at sufficient speed, camber effect will steer inwards enough to correct for small imbalances. Link to Wrong Ways how a wheel turns video that I posted before:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsXW4OKnmWc

Angular momentum resists any change in roll (tilt) or yaw (twist) angle, but it's too small to have any significant effect at the speeds a beginner would ride at. Precession is a reaction to torque, delayed by 90°, so a left tilting torque results in a left yawing response (assuming wheel is rolling forwards), but this response would be insufficient to correct for imbalance. 

Edited June 17, 2022 by rcgldr

[Begodecrashtestdummy]

On 6/14/2022 at 4:24 PM, EF95 said:

So I've been trying to learn to ride just inside my apartment along the wall, learning to mount, to do the concentric one leg circles, riding with no wall for short distances etc. I'm on a v11. The bruising has gotten so bad after about 3 days of this that I think I literally have to take a break from it. Has anyone else had this experience when starting out or am I just doing something REALLY wrong lol here's a photo of it

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Nuz7HqBieQcTpvPWEJqyOoXZ5XEl6lSH/view?usp=drivesdk

It took me 10-15 minutes to learn to ride my rs19 high speed which was my first wheel .i parked my car in the middle of a parking lot and went around the car holding onto it until I felt stable enough to let go for small periods of time and then grab onto car again still going in circles ..eventually I just worked my way away from the car and kept circling the car and then worked to circling the entire parking lot.once you pick up speed the gyroscopic effect kicks in and it’s much easier to balance and the wheel becomes stable 

[winterwheel]

20 hours ago, Tawpie said:

There is one thing I think everyone would agree about in the early stages: do not feel bad about taking a break.

I preach patience above all in my lessons. A couple of hours of patience can lead to a lifetime of awesome wheeling.

Students who go for too much too soon sometimes crash, give up, and are condemned to a lifetime of riding scooters.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[RhoadsNRoses82]

so after giving those bruises a rest for a day, and reworking my technique for the free mount practice a bit...i finally took the v11 out to a grass field. and you were all very on point, it's way easier (and a lot less painful) to get riding than to learn to freemount. I was able to ride without falling for a few minutes all around the grass within the first 30 minutes of trying. And since i already had some practice freemounting i was able to just get that going right away which was awesome. and a lot less damage to that inner leg area overall. I practiced for about an hour and gonna let tonights sleep cement some of that in. very excited to get it more under control, as right now i still have a good bit of trouble just riding calmly.

My next question to you guys is regarding acceleration. Do you ever find yourself actually standing basically almost on your tippy toes when tryin to accelerate? i keep feeling this happening, maybe i'm not leaning from the right area of my body

[Begodecrashtestdummy]

52 minutes ago, EF95 said:

so after giving those bruises a rest for a day, and reworking my technique for the free mount practice a bit...i finally took the v11 out to a grass field. and you were all very on point, it's way easier (and a lot less painful) to get riding than to learn to freemount. I was able to ride without falling for a few minutes all around the grass within the first 30 minutes of trying. And since i already had some practice freemounting i was able to just get that going right away which was awesome. and a lot less damage to that inner leg area overall. I practiced for about an hour and gonna let tonights sleep cement some of that in. very excited to get it more under control, as right now i still have a good bit of trouble just riding calmly.

My next question to you guys is regarding acceleration. Do you ever find yourself actually standing basically almost on your tippy toes when tryin to accelerate? i keep feeling this happening, maybe i'm not leaning from the right area of my body

You shouldnt have to try that hard to accelerate.have you properly calibrated your wheel thru an app ?? Also Power pads make it so much easier to accelerate and to brake .imo every wheel should be learned with them 

Edited June 18, 2022 by Dosingpsychedelics

[Tawpie]

15 minutes ago, EF95 said:

Do you ever find yourself actually standing basically almost on your tippy toes when tryin to accelerate?

That will happen in grass, but shouldn't happen on pavement unless you're going up a hill. Try keeping your knees bent and bias your weight toward the front, making sure to bend your ankles (dorsiflexion... I love that word). You want your feet flat on the pedals with your weight distributed over as much of your foot's sole as you can. On the balls of your feet is necessary when going up steeper hills, or drag racing off the line, or powering over a rock but it's not a stable position.

You should also try positioning your feet more forward on the pedals... the stance is different for everyone, but if where you're standing is more forward, your center of mass is also more forward and that automagically helps you go.

Edited June 18, 2022 by Tawpie

[rcgldr]

2 hours ago, EF95 said:

My next question to you guys is regarding acceleration. Do you ever find yourself actually standing basically almost on your tippy toes when tryin to accelerate? i keep feeling this happening, maybe i'm not leaning from the right area of my body

Don't think about pressure at the toes or heels, instead focus on leaning forwards | backwards to accelerate | brake. A wheel will accelerate (or brake) in order to balance a leaned rider based on how much the rider is leaning (also long as the rider doesn't overlean beyond what the wheel can handle). Technically, while riding, in order to lean forwards, you initially press with the heels (which is how a person would initiate a forwards lean if standing on solid ground), this causes the wheel to brake from under the rider, leaning the rider forwards. Once leaned forwards, the rider controls the amount of lean with pressure from the toes, increasing the pressure to return to vertical. The same goes for leaning backwards, initial press with the toes, then once leaned, pressing with heels. In most situations, a rider doesn't have to be aware of pedal pressure and instead can just focus on leaning forwards or backwards. For braking, an alternative is to sit back and down a bit, a variation of leaning backwards, which also helps to step off when dismounting.

For free mount, you push the wheel forwards in order to get some momentum and step on, then lean forwards to accelerate. In Wrong Way's video, he suggests Kate extend her arms forwards to help with this, getting it on her second attempt. I just leaned forwards a bit more to compensate for my only time on grass, getting it on my third attempt. At this point in Wrong Way's how to ride euc video, Kate (Monokat) has ridden for 60 to 80 km before attempting free mount on a 77 lb Veteran Sherman and gets it on her second attempt as mentioned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW-y5RiecMc&t=634s

 

Edited June 18, 2022 by rcgldr

[Funky]

2 hours ago, EF95 said:

My next question to you guys is regarding acceleration. Do you ever find yourself actually standing basically almost on your tippy toes when tryin to accelerate? i keep feeling this happening, maybe i'm not leaning from the right area of my body

You can change pedal angle also.. By adding 1/2 degree. (Whole euc front goes upwards..)

When i ride at 0 degree meaning pedals sit "level" position. I feel like i have to put half feet over pedals.. (Half of my foot sits on empty air. Over pedal..) Or i have to add +2 degree in front. (So whole euc front sits upwards..)

If i want my feet to stand right in middle of pedal(Back/front don't go over pedal.) i have to add those 2 degree, otherwise my feet gets cramps VERY, VERY fast.. Because when i ride on my toes. More i lean forwards - more weight on my toes.. (Try standing and lean forwards as much as you can without falling - it starts to hurt.) I don't get how people can ride at 0 degree???

Anyone could help me? Maybe i get those cramps, because i lean forwards and all my weight 280lbs goes right on my feet/toes..

At those 2degree it feels more like i'm standing straight - almost no lean.. While cruising at 35kph..

Edited June 19, 2022 by Funky

[RhoadsNRoses82]

i tried some riding in a parking lot for half hour and riding on asphalt is way easier than on bumpy grass thats fo sho. I got more comfortable with leaning to accelerate now, it definitely needs to come more from the body. I didn't calibrate anything on the wheel tho. do i need to? it seems fine...besides, the app won't connect to the bluetooth this entire day lmao...now i gotta trouble shoot that

[rcgldr]

17 hours ago, Funky said:

When i ride at 0 degree meaning pedals sit "level" position. I feel like i have to put half feet over pedals.. (Half of my foot sits on empty air. Over pedal..) Or i have to add +2 degree in front. (So whole euc front sits upwards..)

To tilt pedals forwards, the entire EUC tilts forwards, so the front sits downwards, and the pedals get moved back a bit. An alternative is to run the pedals in a softer mode. In hard mode, or for Inmotion wheels, 100% pedal sensitivity means the EUC keeps the pedals level despite any rider lean (although Inmotion wheels will auto-tilt forwards | backwards for incline | decline). In medium or soft mode (or Inmotion pedal sensitivity set to less than 100%), the pedals will tilt along with the direction the rider is leaning, reducing ankle bend. However, ankle bend is one way a rider gets a sense of how far the rider is leaning, and reducing ankle bend reduces this feedback, so when switching to a softer pedal setting a rider needs to pay more attention to lean angle and speed. I have EUC World setup to call out speed, battery charge, time, distance, every 15 seconds, like an audio speedometer.

Because of the ankle bend feedback issue, most of the how to ride videos recommend learning with pedals in hard mode, then adjusting after learning to ride. At 30+ kph, the phone speaker probably won't be loud enough to hear due to wind noise. If the phone audio can be fed into the wheel's speaker that would help. Ear buds could be used if they don't interfere with being able to hear beeps from the wheel or noise from other vehicles.

15 hours ago, EF95 said:

i tried some riding in a parking lot for half hour and riding on asphalt is way easier than on bumpy grass thats fo sho. I got more comfortable with leaning to accelerate now, it definitely needs to come more from the body. I didn't calibrate anything on the wheel tho. do i need to? it seems fine...besides, the app won't connect to the bluetooth this entire day lmao...now i gotta trouble shoot that

That's an issue with the Inmotion app, and the Inmotion server for the app is often down. An alternative is EUC World for Android phones or Darkness Bot for iPhones.

Edited June 19, 2022 by rcgldr

[winterwheel]

17 hours ago, Funky said:

Anyone could help me? Maybe i get those cramps, because i lean forwards and all my weight 280lbs goes right on my feet/toes..

Two things. Learn to ride with feet offset forward to back. Also, switch to some larger pedals if you can.

[Funky]

33 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

Two things. Learn to ride with feet offset forward to back. Also, switch to some larger pedals if you can.

I already got large pedals.. I got 47 size shoes - my feet are big.  Offset forward to back?  What do you mean by that?

One more in front? Other feet more back? - I ride like that.. Left foot big toe right where pedal starts, right foot little bit over pedal.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Funky

[rcgldr]

2 hours ago, Funky said:

Offset forward to back? One more in front? Other feet more back? - I ride like that.. Left foot big toe right where pedal starts, right foot little bit over pedal.

Some riders do this, but most of the advanced riders have their feet even and centered on both pedals. If your feet are offset, you have to compensate for the offset when leaning forwards | backwards to accelerate | brake. You can practice this while standing on the ground. With your feet offset, when you try to lean forwards, you may find yourself leaning a bit sideways towards the forwards offset foot, and if you lean backwards, a bit sideways towards the backwards offset foot. You want to be able to lean forwards | backward with offset feet on the ground before trying this on a wheel, or start off with very small offset and slowly increase.

One reason to not offset feet is that I'm not aware of any rider using power pads that have the pads offset (which will create a twisting | balance issue), which is probably why the advanced riders don't offset their feet. If you ever plan on using power pads, I would not recommend using offset feet.

For foot | calf pain, I still recommend setting pedal tilt to about +2 degrees or forwards, or setting pedal sensitivity to a softer mode, or using shoes with stiffer soles and|or more internal padding. The main issue with a soft pedal setting is that tilted pedals mean less clearance, making them more prone to scraping in tight turns or snagging something if riding off road, which is why Inmotion off-road setting limits pedal tilt if using a softer setting (as oppose to commuter mode which allows the pedals to tilt forwards much more).

Edited June 19, 2022 by rcgldr

[Funky]

41 minutes ago, rcgldr said:

Some riders do this, but most of the advanced riders have their feet even and centered on both pedals. If your feet are offset, you have to compensate for the offset when leaning forwards | backwards to accelerate | brake. You can practice this while standing on the ground. With your feet offset, when you try to lean forwards, you may find yourself leaning a bit sideways towards the forwards offset foot, and if you lean backwards, a bit sideways towards the backwards offset foot. You want to be able to lean forwards | backward with offset feet on the ground before trying this on a wheel, or start off with very small offset and slowly increase.

One reason to not offset feet is that I'm not aware of any rider using power pads that have the pads offset (which will create a twisting | balance issue), which is why the advanced riders don't offset their feet. If you ever plan on using power pads, I would not recommend using offset feet.

I have no problems riding even feet or offset.. I simply put one feet(sometimes both) over pedal - so i don't have to lean as much. When goring straight long paths.

In middle of city, where i need to carve a lot, i keep more or less my feet even. As much as possible on pedals - more grip..

Also i don't plan getting pads for 18xl. This wheel don't need them. (The way i'm riding, i don't need them.)

I have no problems placing my feet.. (Heck i move them while riding.. One feet up, slide forwards/backwards.. Then second feet.)

 

I was talking about how at 0 degree i get cramps really fast (Between ankles "front" part.) - because i need to lean very much forwards, to maintain the speed.

With the +2 degree pedal angle. I don't need to lean as much and i get less of cramps. (Most of the weight then is on heel - less strain around ankles and the "front" part. Also wheel start to move itself without much lean.) Vs at 0 i have to superman lean the wheel to maintain 30-40kph speeds... That's why my feet get tired really fast and start to hurt.

Each 5km ridden i need to step off and walk for 10 secs.  

Edited June 19, 2022 by Funky

[Paul A]

Try placing  the ankles at the center of the pedals.

This will place vertical center line of the body, with the vertical center line of the wheel.

Do not need to press on toes to accelerate.  Just lean forwards.  No foot fatigue.

 

It is just a matter of moving the body's center of mass, in front of the wheel's center of mass.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2022 by Paul A

[Funky]

45 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Try placing  the ankles at the center of the pedals. 

This will place vertical center line of the body, with the vertical center line of the wheel.

Do not need to press on toes to accelerate.  Just lean forwards.  No foot fatigue.

 

It is just a matter of moving the body's center of mass, in front of the wheel's center of mass.

Placing ankles in center of pedal. Makes half of mine feet go over pedal.  Yeah, i have noticed it's so easy to ride then.. Doh pretty sketchy riding like that.

I don't press on toes - all my weight goes on toes. Not toes, but this part start to hurt very much. (Front of ankles?) >>> 

(Try this > Stand up and lean forwards, as much as you can. Without falling. Stand like that for min or two.. Doesn't it start to hurt?)

Because of to much leaning.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Funky

[Paul A]

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KingSong 18XL/18L Big Pedals KS Electric Unicycle Large Pedals,KS14S/D 16S/18S/18L/18XL Upgrade Big Pedals

 

KingSong does have optional larger pedals. 

Available on Aliexpress.

Think Ewheels paid for the moulds, and their customers get them by default.

Others need to purchase them separately.

They might help.

[Funky]

6 minutes ago, Paul A said:

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KingSong 18XL/18L Big Pedals KS Electric Unicycle Large Pedals,KS14S/D 16S/18S/18L/18XL Upgrade Big Pedals

 

KingSong does have optional larger pedals. 

Available on Aliexpress.

Think Ewheels paid for the moulds, and their customers get them by default.

Others need to purchase them separately.

They might help.

I already had "originally" the big ones.. (The store where i bought the wheel came with big ones.) Which i changed to "hextech" pedals - both where same length/width.  

Edited June 19, 2022 by Funky

[rcgldr]

3 hours ago, Paul A said:

Try placing  the ankles at the center of the pedals.

This is a more accurate picture of center of mass while standing:

Note that center of mass will shift around a bit over time as part of how a person balances.

How this relates to EUC is the center of base of support should be close to the centers of the pedals (for leverage at the pedals), at least for beginners.

Rather than debate the physics, I follow the recommendations by the experts in how to ride EUC videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZQsEJ88Dj4&t=75s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6o8ZMlo5ko&t=17s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW-y5RiecMc&t=412s