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Posted

Does anyone know if anyone offers lessons or coaching on how to ride EUC? I just got an InMotion V8f (for commuting around downtown San Francisco) and banged up my ankles pretty good trying to ride it around the grass at my local park. 

Are there any experienced riders in the Santa Clara or San Mateo counties that offer lessons or coaching? I can offer cash, crypto, or programming lessons in return. 

Thanks Y'all!

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Posted (edited)

I looked at the how to ride EUC videos, and I found Kuji Roll's video where he teaches a girl to ride on a V8 was the most useful, but was missing some points. Both Kuji and Wrong Way (Adam) recommend using support to mount, launch, and learn to ride before learning to free mount, which is what I did. If you already know how to ride, then free mounting is much easier, just move the EUC forward with one foot, and step on with the other foot. Extending arms can help with balance (such as arm flailing, flail left to steer right and vice versa), which is shown, but not mentioned in Kuji's video. Wrong Way does mention extending arms. Kuji mentions steering into direction of fall for balance. A key point here is steering for balance rather than trying to balance while going straight ahead. Kuji mentions pushing with toe on inner pedal to turn, which is tilt steering, except if a rider really just pushed with toe on inner foot, the EUC would accelerate. It's more accurate to just note an EUC will turn in response to being tilted (inner foot down, outer foot up), regardless of how the tilt is done. A new rider should have their inner legs touching the upper pads on an EUC for stability. Kuji mentions setting pressure to 25 psi, but the girl is light. I'm about 190 pounds, with a V8F, and ran tire pressure about 35 psi when learning, and 40 psi now. Kuji also mentions a bit more speed will help, but doesn't mention this is because at sufficient speed (about 6 to 8 mph on my V8F) an EUC will become stable, where a rider doesn't have to focus on balance. Note that Kuji teaches the girl to ride, but she never attempts free mount.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6o8ZMlo5ko

There are several other how to ride EUC videos, all with good advice.

 

Edited by rcgldr
  • Like 2
Posted

@The Brahan Seer Thanks for the link, I've watched videos from WrongWay and Ecx(?), I'll check out a few more.

@rcgldr I had the tires at stock inflation and cranked the speed down (to 3mph) for practice, perhaps this is what threw me off. I'll try again after work today with less pressure and more speed. 

Would using hiking or skiing poles as a crutch be a bad move when starting? There's no good walls/fences I have access to to practice on.

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Beta Delta Alpha said:

Would using hiking or skiing poles as a crutch be a bad move when starting?

I think so! They're something else to get tangled up in and manage, you don't need distractions or things that might impale you.

Ankle guards are really inexpensive, you won't use them for long but during the learning process they're pretty valuable.

Mostly, have yourself a heaping helping of stubborn for breakfast, then go out and practice for 20-30 minutes max and call it a day. Sometime around day 2-3 you'll suddenly go "holy balancing act Batman" and be off and riding.

(there is a wealth of learning-to-ride stories on this forum, when you get discouraged give them a read—your faith in your ability and smugness at having joined such an elite and rare community will soar)

Edited by Tawpie
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  • Upvote 1
Posted (edited)

You need to "lock" in the leg which you start riding. (Feet -to- knee part) While mounting all your body weight will be against the euc side.

So euc doesn't go where you don't want it. The euc becomes your leg extension. Also you may be trying to ride "wrong" leg. I for one start riding on my none dominant leg.. While learning lowering psi also should help, 25psi should be fine. For reference i weight 280lbs and ride at 30psi.

By holding things that may help you get on euc, etc.. You will simply prolong the "learning" stage.

Keep trying you will get the hang of it.. We all do.. I at start also thought "How the HELL someone ride this piece of craap!!! WTF!!!" After 4 days, each day i spent around ~15 min trying. I could not even stay on the euc for 5 sec, was falling all the time.. At 4th day something clicked in my brain and i was RIDING! And already going in circles.

Now at 350km ridden. Euc feels the same as regular bike to me. Only thing that i can't really do yet, is riding backwards. Can do only little bit - very shaky and wobbly. xD As your upper body needs to be turned around looking backwards.

Edited by Funky
Posted
58 minutes ago, Beta Delta Alpha said:

There's no good walls/fences I have access to to practice on.

A friend of mine teaches it using a goal, lamp or any post that you use to hold and go around in circles for around 5 minutes one way, then five minutes the other as a introduction warm up and try then travelling to a specific point you have chosen a few metres/feet away. I like this approach too. Remember always to look up (which is difficult at the start as the natural instinct is to look down at your feet). This is probably the most important thing to keep telling yourself when you are first starting. Keep looking where you want to go. Don't rush enjoy the experience. This is one of the best times. I took 5 hours over 3-4 days for it to click and say 6-12 months to get really comfortable for me, but others pick it up really quickly. I'm still learning a year on. No rules, no expectations. As stated before check the browse on here lots of great info and techniques. Enjoy!

Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Beta Delta Alpha said:

3mph  ... support

3 mph is too slow. A fast walk is 4 mph. I didn't want to deal with tilt-back, so I left it at default 15 mph, and just avoided riding too fast. After I learned to ride, I did test tilt back at 8, 12, and 15 mph, just to get used to how it would feel.

If there no walls or fences, are there any basketball courts nearby where you could use a backboard pole for support? Better still, since they typically have much longer straights, are there any nearby parking lots that aren't used much during off hours (as in Kuji's video)? I started off at a tennis court, but realized it would be better to find a parking lot with a long straight like the next video with two trash bin enclosures (over 500 feet between them) for support to mount and launch. I only have a video I took from my car for that spot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ts5K7FIsPw

Initial drills and yaw steering - I started at a tennis court, using a screened fence (nothing to poke fingers through) for the support drills as seen in Kuji's video (mount, rock back and forth, short rides using wall for support), for a bit less than 30 minutes. I then ventured away from the fence, but due to the confined area, I only rode at 3 to 5 mph, using arm flailing (flail left to steer right and vice versa), able to do laps on my first attempt. Videos of me on day 2, a 3 year old, and advanced riders nearly stopped. The main lesson in these videos is to steer left|right for balance instead of trying to go straight. The amount of arm flailing seen in these videos can be avoided by just going a bit faster, which is why Kuji had the girl in his video riding faster. There isn't much point in a beginner learning to ride at 3 mph.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPyy84EThmM

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/z9YiHu5HJ6o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro3o8U9uZeU&t=57s

Tilt steering - Before I ordered my V8F, and while waiting for it to arrive, I also looked for examples of tilt steering with minimal movement (Marty Backe style), and used this video of a girl on an S18 as a guide, no body twisting, no carving, very stable, and due to speed, turning radius, she leans more than she tilts her S18. She also moves her arms and looks around without upsetting balance or changing direction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hWMwK3Cfs0

V8F stable at 6 to 8 mph - I learn to tilt steer - Once I moved to that single street parking lot, I found my V8F became stable at 6 to 8 mph, and I didn't have to focus on balance. Leaning forwards | backwards to accelerate | brake wasn't an issue. I then tried tilt steering (inner foot down, outer foot up), first to see how V8F would respond, then a mild weave, then large radius turns. Two days after this I did my first free mounts, and since I could basically ride, I just moved the V8F forwards and stepped on (no need to one foot glide) without issue.  A video of me on day 10. It was taken at night, and you can tell from the headlight beam how stable the V8F became at about 8 mph.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keDvRMScO1g

At this point I could ride, but turning radius was still large. I did drills where I would lean, then tilt steer inwards enough to return to vertical for balance, or steer inwards just enough to hold the lean angle for turns, to learn how to coordinate how much to lean versus how much to tilt the EUC depending on speed and turning radius. Over time, all this improved, tighter turns, more range of speed, moving arms and|or looking around without upsetting balance or changing direction. There was a transition during the first two months where all of this began to feel just as natural as riding a bike.

Learn to free mount after learning to ride - Wrong Way also recommends this. His video is about his girlfriend Monokat (Kate), who had ridden 60 to 80 km using support to mount and launch before attempting to free mount as seen in the video. No need to do one foot drills with this approach. She just moves her 77 lb Veteran Sherman forwards and steps on (which is what I do on my V8F). She got it on her second try without issue. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW-y5RiecMc&t=634s

 

Edited by rcgldr
  • Like 2
Posted (edited)

Just keep trying... Lots of short sessions. I wouldnt advise using poles to help, they will be a hazard. Dont put fingers in a fence either. I learned to ride after a cpla weeks of daily grind. I didnt focus on much, so when I managed to get moving "free mounts only for me", I didnt stop very often. Eventually I came around to figuring out how to stop and go somewhat safely. IN the end, I dont recall thinking all that much, nor looking for precise advice. I like to think that mere conviction is the only thing you really need. Assuming you are physically able. Before I got my wheel, I was already convinced I would figure it out. I was a little surprised at how steep a learning curve it was. But I'd be damned if I wouldnt figure it out or get broken trying! :thumbup:

3mph limit is terrible. I would set it around 15mph. Unlike a lot of other type pev's, you wont accidently find yourself going REALLY fast. Fly out to ShanesPlanet, I'll give ya a 2 day crash course. Only cost ya $100 and whatever you break. I got a spare mten and tough as nails 18xl just waitin'....:eff02be2d7:

Edited by ShanesPlanet
  • Like 1
Posted

Maybe try using a supermarket shopping cart.

It gives you something to hold onto whilst you are moving.

Acts like a mobile walking frame.

Standing up straight, no slouching, fully vertical spine, eyes looking at the horizon, might be helpful too.

Place ankles at the center of the pedals.  This will line up the center vertical line of the body, with the center vertical line of the wheel.

Hope that helps.

 

Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Maybe try using a supermarket shopping cart.

Place ankles at the center of the pedals.  This will line up the center vertical line of the body, with the center vertical line of the wheel.

I would assume a rider would find a shopping cart at a parking lot. Usually there are a pair of rails that shopping carts are parked between. Either of those rails could be used for support to mount and launch, and the rails will be there even if the shopping carts have been put away inside the store.

If ankles are at center of pedals, a rider won't be able to brake well, due the heels being so close to the center of the pedals. The three main how to ride videos I've seen, Kuji Rolls, Wrong Way, EUCO, recommend a new rider center their feet on the pedals, with a minor difference in what this means. Method 1 - place feet so front of toes and back of heels are equal distant from the ends of the pedals. Method 2 - place feet so center of ball of each foot and center of heel of each foot is equal distant from ends of pedals. Method 2 is only about 1/4 inch forwards of method 1, not much difference.

 

Edited by rcgldr
Posted

image.png.28e5e23f510489acc0ea2b68be05b5b5.png

 

image.png.c9f9811e657a69e849fd7c33c0f56f0d.png

 

Aligning the vertical center line of the body, with the vertical center line of the wheel.

Makes it very easy to move forward/brake, with very slight lean.

Ankles are at the vertical center line of body.

Middle of pedal is at the vertical center line of the wheel.

 

Riders will have personal preferences.

 

 

 

Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Paul A said:

Riders will have personal preferences.

True, in the EUCO how to ride video, Jeff notes that he has his feet a bit forwards of center, but recommends beginners start off with their feet centered.

Why did you post an image of an automotive type wheel where a king pin is used for caster?

 

Edited by rcgldr
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Paul A said:

(sway angle) - Closest picture that could be found that showed vertical centre line.  Illustrative purposes.

clip_image002_003.gif

Note that center of mass will shift around a bit over time as part of how a person balances.

How this relates to EUC is the center of base of support should be close to the centers of the pedals (for leverage at the pedals), at least for beginners.

Rather than debate the physics, I follow the recommendations by the experts in how to ride EUC videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZQsEJ88Dj4&t=75s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6o8ZMlo5ko&t=17s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW-y5RiecMc&t=412s

 

Edited by rcgldr
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