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KS18XL brief "hitch" when accelerating and braking quick


vikingto

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@ShanesPlanet so I finally was able to crack the motor open today. Based on what other videos have shown, everything looks to be in order, but I'm a noob and don't know exactly what might be causing this chonk noise and feel. The outer rims relation to the inner rim has a slight variance, but I've read that is common with the larger wheels. No noticeable bend in the rim. Here's some pics, and I'll hold off on putting it back together until I hear from what you all think. Thanks in advance..PXL_20220620_203423668.thumb.jpg.0d37b325b4f0100c2e10ac2f8b74375c.jpg

PXL_20220620_203455836.thumb.jpg.dc0093cbfefeb15430ebd1ca01fc4e0f.jpg

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No gap that isn't a problem.. When you put the motor "covers/shields" back on. The motor gets centered - makes even gap.

Not so long ago i changed my 18xl bearings. So i was also inside the motor..

Tip - check your bearings if they got grease inside.. (While the motor is open, you could change/grease them..) Mine where kinda dry. I changed mine at 100km mark. (I changed tire and was waterproofing the motor.. So i figured i change the bearings same time. Who knows how "good" they are greased.) Could save reopening the motor in future..

Edited by Funky
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On 5/20/2022 at 10:25 PM, vikingto said:

Quick video of wheel sound:

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/QDx4rFNeujrEPsaR6

You mean that "chunk - chunk" sound when you stop going forwards and start going back?

It sounds like something is hitting.. But WHAT??? Only moving part is bearings..

My next guess would be there's a stick stuck inside wheel well.. But as you removed the motor. I guess it's not that.

Loose zip-tie inside motor? Have you checked them?

Handle are solid? It isn't lose - Maybe it shakes inside. :D  Loose motherboard - shaking inside? :D Maybe loose magnet..? Try moving the magnet with small stick each magnet. (If it is loose the neighbouring magnets can still hold it in place.)

Loose battery? - Unglued from plastic, now shakes.

Try shaking the euc without motor (Same motion as you would go forwards/backwards. Maybe it starts to make same sound.) :D:D It sounds like "plastic"

As we don't know problem - you have to look at all possibilities.

 

Btw nice led color choice. :D I also got blue. :D

Edited by Funky
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Hey thanks for the advice! It's definitely something physical that's happening upon rotation that I can feel when I put enough of a lean on it forward or back. May very well be the bearings. They seem to have enough grease on them.

Also, looking at the axle on this side, the marks on it in this pic make me think the pedal hanger/hangers may have been slipping..? What say you?

16557647553327152206946556859169.thumb.jpg.7059134f2bca48a7a52484638bd0cee4.jpg

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Something is loose. Either the pedal hangers (axle nuts) or the axle in the motor assembly (worn axle key/cracked weld). 

I have never worked on a Kingsong so my word means very little.

Edited by alcatraz
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And do you think that can be cleaned and better welded, the spot that the crack looks to be at? Or would that constitute just getting a new motor shipped? It's only $350 for a new motor, so but too bad. Can keep this for spare parts if needed I suppose..

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I'd say it was easy. I mean at my riding weight of 225lbs roughly, it happened just popping a couple speed bumps. But lots of potholes in my town, took it on the trails a bit but really nothing extreme. I think I'll just have to use this as a cruiser only wheel, and the s22 as the trail and rough terrain wheel.

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Welding would be easy 5 min job.. You don't even need to clean old weld off (if you want to be lazy..) Simply add 3 more "dot" welds around axle. But i doubt that's the problem..

If axle would be moving - pedals would shift their "level" position. They would look like adding  5 degree angle. Forwards, next day backwards.. Because the "axle" are moving so would pedals..? Or maybe i'm wrong here because wheel "balances" them out?

BUT if "axle" where "rolling" around you would had torn off the wires. 

Also i weight 280lbs and have had zero problems. Doh i don't jump. :D 

Edited by Funky
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2 hours ago, Funky said:

Because the "axle" are moving so would pedals..? Or maybe i'm wrong here because wheel "balances" them out?

That really describes what is happening. I move forward and there's the smallest of play at the loose weld points. The axle isn't completely loose and spinning, and I can't make it move even slightly with vice grips. But with enough of a lean under my feet, the smallest play in the axle is felt. 878670293_PXL_20220621_1201486942.thumb.jpg.ee48a6bc2af26a78e85897df0642e81a.jpg

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@Funky I'll try the dot welds. I'll research a bit on here, but any idea what material to be using for the weld? Also, is a small weld job like that something I should be pulling the power cables out of the axel first, due to heat and all?

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47 minutes ago, vikingto said:

@Funky I'll try the dot welds. I'll research a bit on here, but any idea what material to be using for the weld? Also, is a small weld job like that something I should be pulling the power cables out of the axel first, due to heat and all?

I have never welded my self. But i figure you are doing "dot" welds - where you simply put small "hot dot" on there and let it cool. Repeat as many dots you need, it should not heat up that much.. (Sure surrounding metal will heat up, but not at melting temperature? Again - i don't know..)

On safe side you could remove wires. But you will need to cut connectors, etc.. (Another way would be, get the wires loose. When you put the weld on move the wires back and fort - removing the heat on wires. Of course if you can move the wires..)

Or simply put the "dots" further away from wires - heat will need to travel more, to get to wires.. I would put the weld on back side of wires. (There they are the furthest away.) And add on both sides the welds - even if other side is fine - adding another weld will make it so much stronger..

Also if there's that "little" play in axle - it should not make so much noise? Sure welding even 2 more dots would make it 3x times stronger. If you can get the job done - do it. :) 

Edited by Funky
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55 minutes ago, vikingto said:

That really describes what is happening. I move forward and there's the smallest of play at the loose weld points. The axle isn't completely loose and spinning, and I can't make it move even slightly with vice grips. But with enough of a lean under my feet, the smallest play in the axle is felt. 878670293_PXL_20220621_1201486942.thumb.jpg.ee48a6bc2af26a78e85897df0642e81a.jpg

Same thing could be happening to pedals "L" hangers themselves. Maybe they where sliding on the axle. :D

Keep us updated - I at least want to see how it ends.:wub: Show us the new welds and all that.

Edited by Funky
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@Funky hey thanks man, I'll definitely keep y'all updated. The silicone appears to be at the top and bottom of the axle only, so I think it shouldn't be that hard to remove the connector then pull them one by one back down through the axle.

And you know, there's a beertender at one of the local breweries who's also a master welder (welding is his craft side gig now, can't blame him lol). But I think I could probably hire him to for this weld job, and I need to reinforce my spiked pedals with some creative welding. And at the same time if he's open to it, have him teach me some basic skills and best practices. Because if I've only been riding a year now and I already two different things needing to be welded, I need to learn how to weld.

But hey, this is what makes riding fun right? Bulldogging problems and fixing them!

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i think alcatraz is correct, the weld looks broken, and as bad of a weld job as the one on this post. 
 

KS should copy Gotway I think, this is the axle of an mten3 for comparison, a groove exists to stop the axle from spinning. 
 

image.jpeg

Edited by enaon
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1 hour ago, vikingto said:

@Funky hey thanks man, I'll definitely keep y'all updated. The silicone appears to be at the top and bottom of the axle only, so I think it shouldn't be that hard to remove the connector then pull them one by one back down through the axle.

And you know, there's a beertender at one of the local breweries who's also a master welder (welding is his craft side gig now, can't blame him lol). But I think I could probably hire him to for this weld job, and I need to reinforce my spiked pedals with some creative welding. And at the same time if he's open to it, have him teach me some basic skills and best practices. Because if I've only been riding a year now and I already two different things needing to be welded, I need to learn how to weld.

But hey, this is what makes riding fun right? Bulldogging problems and fixing them!

Aren't pedals made of different material than steel? (Can't be welded maybe.) Anyways good luck. :) 

Edited by Funky
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3 hours ago, vikingto said:

That really describes what is happening. I move forward and there's the smallest of play at the loose weld points. The axle isn't completely loose and spinning, and I can't make it move even slightly with vice grips. But with enough of a lean under my feet, the smallest play in the axle is felt. 878670293_PXL_20220621_1201486942.thumb.jpg.ee48a6bc2af26a78e85897df0642e81a.jpg

Congrats, you have found the issue! This is common with the older Inmotion wheels too - very unfortunate because $350 for another motor is unreasonable due to a poor weld. Please be wary of taking welding advice from people who have zero welding experience. Tack welds are not going to to cut it for this application and it's definitely not a "5 min job", given the application and material thickness being used here these welds need good penetration if you want to attempt it, as this is about your safety after all.

I refer you to the following detailed repair procedure for Inmotion V8 axle with broken weld, just like what you are experiencing. You will very likely have the same issue when disconnecting the motor wires - I highly recommend copying exactly what this person did, as they appear to know their stuff.

 

 

Edited by conecones
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1 hour ago, conecones said:

Congrats, you have found the issue! This is common with the older Inmotion wheels too - very unfortunate because $350 for another motor is unreasonable due to a poor weld. Please be wary of taking welding advice from people who have zero welding experience. Tack welds are not going to to cut it for this application and it's definitely not a "5 min job", given the application and material thickness being used here these welds need good penetration if you want to attempt it, as this is about your safety after all.

I refer you to the following detailed repair procedure for Inmotion V8 axle with broken weld, just like what you are experiencing. You will very likely have the same issue when disconnecting the motor wires - I highly recommend copying exactly what this person did, as they appear to know their stuff.

 

 

Wow nice find. That makes sense now.. It seems 18xl axle also has that "grove" axle/shaft keyed. (It is keyed right??) If axle didn't have that keyed grove, weld broke - you fall down.. So it should have it?

I thought it was simple round metal - if weld gets broken axle could move around.. If it's keyed, it simply moves little bit one way and back.. Making that "Chunk" sound.

Learn something new each day. :D 

Edited by Funky
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