CST-1488 or ChaoYang H-5102 for an MSX?

[pioneer]

It's summer coming, and I'm to choose a summer tire for my MSuperX. My typical ride is about 70% street or what I call "urban-offroad", i.e. uneven pavement with potholes, and maybe 30% dirt roads/tracks, dirt hills (not too steep), grass (sometimes wet), gravel or similar stuff. Can't call the last 30% hard offroad though, I'm not a very experienced rider (~1200 km in total). My typical speed doesn't exceed 40 kmph/25 mph for now.

Currently, I'm riding an IRC SN26, which is a great winter tire and all-season tire for all terrains, but it's sort of stiff, reacts a little too much to tilt, and also eats battery (which is a reasonable compromise for winter but maybe there are better options for summer).

I have in instant access either a stock MSP CST-1488 tire, or a stock MSX ChaoYang H-5102 tire, all the rest options need ordering and waiting (however, if there's a really awesome variant worth waiting, let me please know). Both these tires look similar, but I don't know much difference, so asking for help me choose given the above. Maybe the below items are worth to want from a tire, please add to the list whatever you think is reasonable:

 

• a softer tire than the IRC SN26
• still as much all-terrain as possible, good grip (but see the typical use cases above)
• predictable, easy and preferably linear turns/carving
• more range
• no need of special wheel or tyre modifications prior to installing

After reading this forum a bit, my guess is that H-5102 has less traction but softer. Anyway, thanks in advance for any suggestions. If there is a reason to not change the tire at all, I'd be also happy to hear.

[RagingGrandpa]

If you're lucky enough to have H5102, ride it!  It's special; and it's going extinct.

I still ride and love H5102 on pavement. And it's certainly possible to ride it on dirt (some of my locals still do). 

[pioneer]

@RagingGrandpaGreat, thanks! Curious why it's special?

[RagingGrandpa]

It's light, soft, supple, and just feels great to carve around on pavement  

For MSX w/ H5102, I prefer 25psi and weigh 165lb without gear... don't go much higher in pressure, less grip less fun.

[pioneer]

Interesting, my naked weight is ~95 kg (210 lbs), I used 1.6 bar (23 psi) in winter for the IRC SN26 on the MSX, to increase grip and make the tyre a little softer. I've thought this is a little too low and for winter only, when I ride slowly. For my first wheel, MCM5, I used 2.7 bar (39 psi) last autumn, and it felt just right. My guess is that a 18x3 tyre can allow lower pressure w/o sacrificing safety, but didn't think it can be that low.

[Funky]

H-5102 is more "slippery". And i have heard it's pretty easy to get flats on that tire.

I had CST-1488 as a "stock" tire - didn't have any problems, good tire.

I changed that tire for Heidenau K66 80/80-14 later. As it's motorcycle tire, more "heavy duty". Less chance of getting flats, much better grip. And i 90% ride on pavement/asphalt, love it.

Off topic: about psi - i weight 127kg and ride at 28psi.. Ofc you can damage rim, if you jump of curbs, or go over curbs at speed.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Funky

[RagingGrandpa]

5 minutes ago, Funky said:

H-5102 is more "slippery".

On grass, slippery of course! 

On dry pavement, it's got tons of grip. Basically a slick tire.

6 minutes ago, Funky said:

i have heard it's pretty easy to get flats on that tire.

Agreed- it's thin and light. Glass could puncture this much more easily than a fatter tire carcass. Pros and cons.

 

[mrelwood]

For 100% dry and clean pavement the H-5102 does behave nicely. But the loss of grip is very sudden when the surface is anything else but perfect.

C-1488 isn’t as stable on pavement, but it grips quite a bit better on grass, wet cliffs etc.

I’d check if Ewheels still has their special order H-666 tires. I like it much better in every single situation than either of the above.

 But nowadays I’m in love with the Heidenau K66 80/90. It sort of behaves like a beefed up version of the H-666.

[Tawpie]

6 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Ewheels still has their special order H-666 tires

As of a couple days ago, they still have some... $55 plus $20 shipping (shipping price might be for previous wheel customers, we get a break on shipping parts).

[Mike Sacristan]

18000km on my H-5102 and counting. Love it. Zero flats. 

The longest I have ever seen a CST C-1488 last was 6000km and that was on my Nikola. People normally replace it around 4000km.
 

 

[pioneer]

Thanks a lot everyone for the answers! Sorry for the late reply, it's been a war in my country (Ukraine), so I'm a little overwhelmed and still haven't changed the tire yet.

So, looks like there are the following pros and cons.

H-5102
Pros:
- durability (at least 3 times more durable than 1488)
- better quality (Mike says zero flats, Wrongway just says "good quality rubber")
Cons:
- less grip on anything but dry and clean pavement

1488
Pros:
- better grip both road and offroad
- well, that's not a functional thing, but I like the thread pattern design more)
Cons:
- less durable

So far, I've realized there is a third option just not to change the tire at all and keep my IRC SN26 as it's actually an all-season tire. That's actually what I'm doing now - just riding this tire, as also the local service shop got closed for a couple of weeks thanks to a Gotway caused fire there.
Pros:
- way better grip offroad
- all-season, no need to change if I don't want to bother
- durable (please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't see any significant wearing off except the central part after ~2000 km)
- thick rubber so I can be less afraid of broken glass etc.
Cons:
- my feel is that it's not that stable on high speeds (or I still haven't got used to it), need effort to stop wobbling if it happens
- on low speeds it's also special in terms of stability, too sensitive to tilts (but likely I've got used to it already)
- way less soft as it's a motorcycle tire (my knees feel it)
- less mileage on a single charge (though I have no good idea how much less)

Any thoughts on the above are appreciated.

[RagingGrandpa]

SN26 is an AT tire... comparing it to street tires like H5102 is not fair  

On 12/2/2020 at 11:18 AM, mrelwood said:

I have the 80/90 version on my V11

 The SN-26 turns like all knobbies do, so the wheel needs to be tilted a lot more for the same amount of turning.

 The SN-26 feels unstable if pressurized above 2.0 bars.

 The SN-26 is not a tire for thick mud, where the CST C-186 grips much better. But in wet leaves, thin mud, and for overall autumny weather the grip is great.

 We have only had two days of freezing this winter, and for the little I had balls to push the new tire, it did grip great on ice. Better than the C-186 (without studs). And better than my hiking boots, which should have an especially good grip.

[pioneer]

On 7/5/2022 at 8:58 PM, RagingGrandpa said:

SN26 is an AT tire... comparing it to street tires like H5102 is not fair  

I know they're in different categories, but I have what I have, it requires no action at all and given the use case it at least fits in the "as much all-terrain as possible". The deliveries are slowly improving, so maybe there will be other options in the nearest future (fingers crossed!).

[pioneer]

On 5/12/2022 at 7:15 PM, mrelwood said:

I’d check if Ewheels still has their special order H-666 tires. I like it much better in every single situation than either of the above.

What's the weight of it and how long it can last?

[pioneer]

I think now I can answer to this question myself.