Flash Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 On 2016-07-08 at 5:28 PM, Jarrett Bowers said: @Björn Hansen Hestra Sweden did you fall and break your arm riding your KS18A+ or a different EUC? Björn Hansen Hestra Sweden . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 1 hour ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said: If safety is an absolute priority you probably should not be riding on one wheel! Everyone has different expectations of safety and these EUC's have literally fallen short in some circumstances. It's still a pretty new technology that is evolving, but there likely aren't any easy solutions coming quickly to prevent injuries from happening. A 10,000 watt electric motor would probably be pretty large maybe about the size of a car tire so although it might be safer it might not be as much fun rolling around on. If you go rolling on roller blades there is a chance of injury. What is a safe speed? Should roller blade makers limit the wheels to spin so you only go 5 kph? People go skiing all the time. People get killed or injured while skiing. What is a safe skiing speed? Maybe skis should have drag weights or claws to prevent them from going over 10 KPH. That would be safer. With certain activities there will be risks that have to be acknowledged. Sometimes we have to take responsibility for our own actions and understand our limits as well as that of our equipment. Back to the car analogy, I wish I could drive my car at 60 KPH and not get killed or injured under any circumstances even if I crash into something. Just like anything there usually are limits. It's a trick to find out what the limits are as sometimes they aren't that obvious. It would be nice if EUC manufacturers could set the speed limit low enough to have some reserve power to accommodate over-leans, hill gradients, sudden accelerations, etc, but there can be too many factors like rider weight, wind, road resistance, etc to calculate the proper setting. They should program proper warnings and tiltbacks to try to avoid a majority of accidents, but then people complain about the settings and want to have more control over them so there's not always a happy medium. For example if a wheel has a practical maximum terminal velocity of about 40 KPH, what should they set the tiltback at? 30? 20? Remember that terminal velocity changes with weight, wind, road conditions (bumpy vs smooth), road gradients, battery condition and charge, etc... so it's more a floating point value. People can still overcome warnings by accelerating faster than the wheel can tiltback at so overall it can be tricky to make things safer. These EUC's are not like other vehicles so you can't treat them as such. Imagine if someone made a motorcycle with a variable maximum terminal velocity of 40 kph which if you go over a little will end up with the motorcycle guaranteed to crash. Would you be pushing it to 40 kph? Probably not so why do it on one wheel? I think people have to remember these aren't e-bikes or motorcycles or mopeds or cars. There's only one wheel so you have to change your thinking and understand some of the principles behind how they work as they can be safe only up to a certain point. Manufacturers can try to improve them, but we have to rely on our own judgement as well. I agree , your logic is true , but , i have gone with roller scates "inlines" for many years long distance uphill downhill , i never fell because it´s only up to my skills , i don´t have to worry about my inlines functioning or not , i am an experienced skier and the only time i broke a leg was when i bought cheap shit on a school surplus market with non functioning ski bindnings. yes if you know a car would explode over 40 km or loose a wheel then everybody would stay below that speed , question is , would it even be allowed to sell such a car ? , instead blaming the victims we should ask the developers of euc why they allow in the app speeds that it can´t handle ? , i don´t care if it goes with max 100 kmh as long as it is totally safe , you should always be able to trust your vehicle no matter what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 @Björn Hansen Hestra Sweden IMO King Song haven't done a very good job at publicly redressing issues brought to their attention, or advising Customers, or even their distributors, of emerging issues. What I feel I ought to disclose is that Chris at @1RadWerkstatt has identified an issue with some 18As, where the bad soldiering on the capacitor can cause cutouts. Where/when did you buy your Wheel? Personally I don't buy the 10KW motor requirement statement of Shane's. Is there any supporting evidence to show that anything remotely approaching this figure is required? Riding flat out at 30kph, on level ground, only consumes around 450W. Between the capacitors for transients and a robust battery pack with good cells, there ought to be more than enough reserve power for just about any rider with even a 800W motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xoltri Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Bjorn, Part of the skills you learned with the inlines was learning their limitation's and not crossing them. You are doing that without even realizing it, which is why you probably don't fall on them anymore. I was an avid inline skater and there are lots of things to watch out for. You have to stay away from wet pavement, not go on gravel, use a specific stance so you don't fall forward when transitioning from asphalt to grass to slow down, watch out for hot tar on the road, not catch rocks in your wheels when going backwards etc. But it mostly becomes second nature. The same could be said for your legs. Don't you remember your parents telling you not to run too fast down hills or you'll fall? Or be careful on ice? Should we ban people from walking because there is a chance you can wipe out by doing so? Obviously that's not good logic. The EUC is just like any other vehicle, it has limitations. The goal for you, as the rider, is to internalize these to the same extent that you have with your inline skates so it seems like there are none, even though in your subconscious you are operating within the limitations you have learned through experience. Now, I agree with your point about holding the manufacturers responsible for imposing reasonable speed limits for sure, and it's unfortunate when a wheel has a malfunction as due to the nature of these things there is no backup plan. I wish you a speedy and full recovery. But the point remains that a wheel or any vehicle without limitations is like being Superman, just push your fist forward harder to go faster, anything in the way gets smashed, no problems. But that is not something that is ever going to happen in reality. Personally I just got my new KS16 yesterday, and going 30km/h seems crazy fast. I think that every vehicle has an inherently safe top speed, even cars, motorcycles, and your legs running down a steep hill. Maybe for electric unicycles that should be limited to 30km/h? I'd rather the speed stay at a fixed amount and have the manufacturers compete on other levels, such as safety and reliability, than a race to see who can cause the first fatality by a wheel that is just plain too fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 On 2016-07-08 at 11:07 PM, Jason McNeil said: @Björn Hansen Hestra Sweden IMO King Song haven't done a very good job at publically redressing issues brought to their attention, or advising Customers, or even their distributors, of emerging issues. What I feel I ought to disclose is that Chris at @1RadWerkstatt has identified an issue with some 18As, where the bad soldiering on the capacitor can cause cutouts. Where/when did you buy your Wheel? Personally I don't buy the 10KW motor requirement statement of Shane's. Is there any supporting evidence to show that anything remotely approaching this figure is required? Riding flat out at 30kph, on level ground, only consumes around 450W. Between the capacitors for transients and a robust battery pack with good cells, there ought to be more than enough reserve power for just about any rider with even a 800W . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 I think a large part of the problem is that these EUCs don't come with good, detailed instructions so it's a big leap to expect people to research all about them and find out how they work and what to watch out for. They only have their experience on bicycles, cars, and skateboards, etc to base their riding habits on. With one wheel there is so much more to consider (hill gradients, battery reserve, tire pressure, weight considerations, acceleration limits, terminal velocity, etc). Ever flown a helicopter? It's pretty complicated! The mistake is to think that once you've got the balancing part mastered that it's all you need to think about when riding. It's those oops I went too fast, oops I braked too hard, oops I climbed too steep, or oops I ignored all the warnings or turned them off that will lead to accidents. Add in equipment failure factors and we have a mixed kettle of fish. If you've read any of my past rants, I always go on a crazy tirade whenever I hear about people getting hurt or injured on these EUCs so I know exactly where you're coming from. I think it scares me more than anything to think it could happen to me so I read up and try to learn why these accidents have occurred and keep mindful to try to avoid them myself. I'm all for trying to make EUC manufacturers and designers perfect these EUCs as safe as possible as it's terrible to hear people breaking bones and getting scarred up. But the more I read the more I can see how difficult the task is. It's one thing to say they should make a wheel capable of 100 KPH, but limit it to 40 KPH for safety. It's another thing to actually do it! I'm no electrical engineer or practical physicist so I can only try to understand what I can about the inner workings of self-balancing technology. It's still amazing to me that something electronic is actually balancing my entire body, and then to add to that it can move me around at speed! Ever try balancing a stationary object like a baseball bat on your hand for any length of time? Now try running around with it as fast as you can... It's astonishing that a little battery pack and small circuit board can do that. Hopefully as quality control goes up and new developments come through we'll see fewer and fewer problems with these, but I don't think anyone can make them entirely safe. Even still, for the sheer fun factor and grins , I'm willing to take some mild to moderate risks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Jason McNeil said: Personally I don't buy the 10KW motor requirement statement of Shane's. Is there any supporting evidence to show that anything remotely approaching this figure is required? Riding flat out at 30kph, on level ground, only consumes around 450W. Between the capacitors for transients and a robust battery pack with good cells, there ought to be more than enough reserve power for just about any rider with even a 800W motor. There seems to be a bit of confusion what exactly Shane's 10 kW motor statement refers to ... It's not about power needed under "regular" conditions (that includes riders towards the top weight limit and riding at maximum speed and at maximum incline) but instead about guarantee that wheel will keep the rider upright at "any" (otherwise ridable) condition. In another words the so much coveted and most discussed security feature of all EUCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 1 hour ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said: I think a large part of the problem is that these EUCs don't come with good, detailed instructions so it's a big leap to expect people to research all about them and find out how they work and what to watch out for. They only have their experience on bicycles, cars, and skateboards, etc to base their riding habits on. With one wheel there is so much more to consider (hill gradients, battery reserve, tire pressure, weight considerations, acceleration limits, terminal velocity, etc). Ever flown a helicopter? It's pretty complicated! The mistake is to think that once you've got the balancing part mastered that it's all you need to think about when riding. It's those oops I went too fast, oops I braked too hard, oops I climbed too steep, or oops I ignored all the warnings or turned them off that will lead to accidents. Add in equipment failure factors and we have a mixed kettle of soup. If you've read any of my past rants, I always go on a crazy tirade whenever I hear about people getting hurt or injured on these EUCs so I know exactly where you're coming from. I think it scares me more than anything to think it could happen to me so I read up and try to learn why these accidents have occurred and keep mindful to try to avoid them myself. I'm all for trying to make EUC manufacturers and designers perfect these EUCs as safe as possible as it's terrible to hear people breaking bones and getting scarred up. But the more I read the more I can see how difficult the task is. It's one thing to say they should make a wheel capable of 100 KPH, but limit it to 40 KPH for safety. It's another thing to actually do it! I'm no electrical engineer or practical physicist so I can only try to understand what I can about the inner workings of self-balancing technology. It's still amazing to me that something electronic is actually balancing my entire body, and then to add to that it can move me around at speed! Ever try balancing a stationary object like a baseball bat on your hand for any length of time? Now try running around with it as fast as you can... It's astonishing that a little battery pack and small circuit board can do that. Hopefully as quality control goes up and new developments come through we'll see fewer and fewer problems with these, but I don't think anyone can make them entirely safe. Even still, for the sheer fun factor and grins , I'm willing to take some mild to moderate risks. Well said @HunkaHunkaBurningLove very well said. Thanks from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 On 2016-07-09 at 1:17 AM, steve454 said: Well said @HunkaHunkaBurningLove very well said. Thanks from me. Yes the technology is really amazing and perfectly developed but the power strength should be much higher , all euc models brands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 I don't know how current this population graph is, but it can help put things into perspective. If you're designing a vehicle for customers, which customer average body type are you more geared to design for based on who might be buying your wheel? Unless your target area is North America and Europe mainly it might make more sense to develop a product that works well enough for your the majority of your customers. I agree that it would be best to over-engineer these wheels for the safety of everyone as no one wants to see someone get hurt if it can be avoided. To have that extra safety margin would likely cost more, but it would be well worth it. Edit:. One other theory is that maybe the designers thought their wheel would appeal more to a younger crowd of adolescents rather than an older population. Imagine building a skateboard - do you engineer it to carry 250 pound kids or kids who average 150-200 pounds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 I saw a video by Serpentza that sort of summed things up. It's all due to the large portions of heavily processed food over here and not walking that is making the average weight higher! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 14 hours ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said: I saw a video by Serpentza that sort of summed things up. It's all due to the large portions of heavily processed food over here and not walking that is making the average weight higher! I think some members here are right when they say it's almost impossible to prevent accidents when they go to fast , the euc have all the safety limits but the rider don't listen to them and push harder so to give the makers of euc credits we are responsible for our actions , the only way to to prevent accidents is to make an unit that has no speed limits , a friend suggested to have a small frontwheel higher up to limit the energy of the fall , also even if some people are fat , the euc is made for people up to 120 kg weight , it maybe was wrong to even post here in the forum , we can't blame the bicycle , car , stairs , shoes when we fall crash and hurt ourself , learning the hard way is one way to understand limitations Obese People Have 'Severe Brain Degeneration' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 On 8. Juli 2016 at 11:07 PM, Jason McNeil said: @Björn Hansen Hestra Sweden IMO King Song haven't done a very good job at publicly redressing issues brought to their attention, or advising Customers, or even their distributors, of emerging issues. What I feel I ought to disclose is that Chris at @1RadWerkstatt has identified an issue with some 18As, where the bad soldiering on the capacitor can cause cutouts. Where/when did you buy your Wheel? Personally I don't buy the 10KW motor requirement statement of Shane's. Is there any supporting evidence to show that anything remotely approaching this figure is required? Riding flat out at 30kph, on level ground, only consumes around 450W. Between the capacitors for transients and a robust battery pack with good cells, there ought to be more than enough reserve power for just about any rider with even a 800W motor. can you go a little bit in to details, please? which capacitor? the 2 big ones? @Jason McNeil @1RadWerkstatt??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 3 hours ago, KingSong69 said: can you go a little bit in to details, please? which capacitor? the 2 big ones? @Jason McNeil @1RadWerkstatt??? You could try to identify it yourself, although it might not be that easy. Usually a good solder joint is shiny and the solder has flown well into the pad & lead and has a concave or (almost) triangular/cone-like shape, here's some examples of good & bad joints: To my untrained eye, the top right one ("No adhesion to lead--oxidized lead") looks just ok No idea why the center one on the bottom (on above image) is marked as bad, to me the shape looks right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 On 2016-07-12 at 4:27 PM, Björn Hansen Hestra Sweden said: Crash site On 2016-07-12 at 4:27 PM, Björn Hansen Hestra Sweden said: Crash site Ready to go , with new wax shine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Does that phone holder come with the KS18A, or did you add it? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 On 2016-07-16 at 6:03 PM, MaxLinux said: Does that phone holder come with the KS18A, or did you add it? Thank you. I bought it at aliexpress , I was lucky it fits perfectly with suck mount stand and it's hard enough to handle vibrationshttp://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-Car-Holder-Cell-Phone-Holder-For-Samsung-Note-4-Stand-Support-for-iphone-6-6Plus/32477437470.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.58.jk9Miv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Bjorn H said: I started to wonder why I didn't feel any tiltback before the crash so now I have changed the mainboard to a new one with firmware V1.18 Which Version did you have before? Tiltback is not Version related....perhaps you have an "unexpected shutdown" before the tiltback? You have had some faults on your old board after the crash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 44 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: Which Version did you have before? Tiltback is not Version related....perhaps you have an "unexpected shutdown" before the tiltback? You have had some faults on your old board after the crash? Before I had version V1.20 , I don't know, the old one seems to work fine , I found a small nail on the table after cleaning the box with compressed air , i hope it came from the wheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 On 2016-07-08 at 11:07 PM, Jason McNeil said: @Björn Hansen Hestra Sweden IMO King Song haven't done a very good job at publicly redressing issues brought to their attention, or advising Customers, or even their distributors, of emerging issues. What I feel I ought to disclose is that Chris at @1RadWerkstatt has identified an issue with some 18As, where the bad soldiering on the capacitor can cause cutouts. Where/when did you buy your Wheel? Personally I don't buy the 10KW motor requirement statement of Shane's. Is there any supporting evidence to show that anything remotely approaching this figure is required? Riding flat out at 30kph, on level ground, only consumes around 450W. Between the capacitors for transients and a robust battery pack with good cells, there ought to be more than enough reserve power for just about any rider with even a 800W motor. .http://kingsong.ulcraft.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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