Bob de Bie Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Same problem whit the kingsong 18a 1360wh 1200 watt shots down while driving it I had a gotway before never had this problem just had this wheel for few days I broke my arm and hand my hand will never be the same by failure of the kingson 18a maenfactory dont give any respons on my acident shame on them is there some one how can help me white this problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Ouch! What happened? Was it fully charged when you went riding? Did you overspeed it or over-lean? How long have you been riding before you got the KS18? Maybe @Bryan Wells can comment as he's had some first hand experience with the unit and hasn't had it for too long either. What would cause a shutdown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Wells Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 5 minutes ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said: Ouch! What happened? Was it fully charged when you went riding? Did you overspeed it or over-lean? How long have you been riding before you got the KS18? Maybe @Bryan Wells can comment as he's had some first hand experience with the unit and hasn't had it for too long either. What would cause a shutdown? Well I again have not had any failures on my ks-18 at all. but we need to know what exact type of riding you were doing AS it turned off the FIRST time? was it a "too much current up too steep of hill" or something? do you possibly think the main board can't take the high draw of the 1200w motor under a lot of stress? I was "lightly" warned to stay with the 800w ks-18 due to the extremes that the 1200w motors on EUC's can pull through a main board. But again I have no idea if the root of the issue is simply a defect in your specific wheel or not. what do you weigh? And how were the riding conditions during the first failure? All in all I cannot bash kingsong for any of this. EUC's are still new to the world and pushing the wattage limits is what any manufacturer needs to do to move forward with them. Besides, I have not seen a single issue with any KS wheels that has not been addressed by KingSong or Tina Wong at an almost Immediate response time frame. Unlike a lot of manufacturers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 There are now three reports of the KS18 1200W experiencing cut-outs. Owners of this variant Wheel should exercise extreme caution & try to get answers about nature of these cut-outs. In our next KS order, we'll order a test 1200W, along with some motorcycle gear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 i am often on the france board for Euc's.... here in europe this kind of type is sold since about 4-6 months and i havent heard about a higher failure rate than other KingSongs... Also 1radwerkstatt, the german exclusive distributer of KS and his resellers.....has now ... i think since about 2 months....ONLY this type of KS18 to sell...the 800 watt version he is not selling anymore. i think if there would be a general problem with this version, he would not do so, as he is one who only takes EUC's into his repertoire when there are no problems anymore with the type in general.... so for putting out alarms about this type in general i think its a bit to early....and i really hope this ....as this is the wheel which is the next i want to have :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 10 hours ago, KingSong69 said: here in europe this kind of type is sold since about 4-6 months and i havent heard about a higher failure rate than other KingSongs.. Cut-outs under with a full battery & high-speed are serious affairs, since as a rider you are never able to properly relax & fully enjoy the ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checho Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 I have been riding a ks18A for a few months now and under normal riding conditions it works great and it is a fantastic wheel, it is very stable. However if you combine steep hills and a heavy rider it becomes extremely dangerous 2 things can happen a mosfet gets burnt when drawing too much current or due to drawing too much current the control board quickly overheats to the point of destroying the control board. I have now been avoiding steep hills and this problem does not occur. The problem I have described is reproducible it takes a 110kg rider and a steep hill, and the reason is that the control can not handle very large currents. What is needed is an improved control board, since the bms in the battery pack is very reliable, and the motor is also very reliable, I never had a problem with the batteries or the motor, overall it is a very good wheel but not for steep hills for heavy riders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 3 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: Cut-outs under with a full battery & high-speed are serious affairs, since as a rider you are never able to properly relax & fully enjoy the ride. You are absolutly right!!! I also dont watn to be in that Situation!!! i just want to say: Don't put this type of KS wheel to the "garbage wheels" to Early...as normally KS and 1Rad know whats they do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checho Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 8 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: You are absolutly right!!! I also dont watn to be in that Situation!!! i just want to say: Don't put this type of KS wheel to the "garbage wheels" to Early...as normally KS and 1Rad know whats they do I belive the root cause of the problem is the overheating of the control board when drawing large currents, after the control board has overheated it becomes unreliable and it can stop working at any moment even after it has cooled down. It is critical Important not to overheat the control board. Recenly based on information posted on this board gotway with the ACM had a similar problem, at first they put a larger heat sink and it was not enough, and recently they decided to upgrade de control board to one that has 12 mosfets. I think in the ks18a 2 things needs to be upgraded the tiny pedals, radwerkstatt sells 25cm pedals vs 18cm ks pedals, and the control board to a more robust one. Ninebot 1 P also had a similar problem with the control board. And in all cases for king song, gotway, and ninebot it was too much current going through the control board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Wells Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Yeah, i completely agree with the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 7 hours ago, checho said: I belive the root cause of the problem is the overheating of the control board when drawing large currents, after the control board has overheated it becomes unreliable and it can stop working at any moment even after it has cooled down. It is critical Important not to overheat the control board. Recenly based on information posted on this board gotway with the ACM had a similar problem, at first they put a larger heat sink and it was not enough, and recently they decided to upgrade de control board to one that has 12 mosfets. I think in the ks18a 2 things needs to be upgraded the tiny pedals, radwerkstatt sells 25cm pedals vs 18cm ks pedals, and the control board to a more robust one. Ninebot 1 P also had a similar problem with the control board. And in all cases for king song, gotway, and ninebot it was too much current going through the control board. But the ACM needs to handle around 70A which is more than the KS draws. All EUCs needs better main boards with a more robust design and cooling concept. Doubling the MOSFETS is a tweak but not a final solution. We'll see what's coming this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob de Bie Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I I was driving around 28/30 kmh was not over speeding im driving gotway like 2 years and ips I got my kingsong a few weeks know but it should go at top 40 but it shuts down at 30 kmh so its not bye less driving experience or by low battery 1360 wh battery I ride 8km before acident so battery wash olmost fully charged riding conditions where a straid road bicycle whit out any opstakels so no hills or any thing so know condition thanks for a reasponses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 On 2016-06-30 at 11:50 AM, checho said: I have been riding a ks18A for a few months now and under normal riding conditions it works great and it is a fantastic wheel, it is very stable. However if you combine steep hills and a heavy rider it becomes extremely dangerous 2 things can happen a mosfet gets burnt when drawing too much current or due to drawing too much current the control board quickly overheats to the point of destroying the control board. I have now been avoiding steep hills and this problem does not occur. The problem I have described is reproducible it takes a 110kg rider and a steep hill, and the reason is that the control can not handle very large currents. What is needed is an improved control board, since the bms in the battery pack is very reliable, and the motor is also very reliable, I never had a problem with the batteries or the motor, overall it is a very good wheel but not for steep hills for heavy riders. I don´t agree , it is going to fast that is dangerous , the wheel can´t keep balance anymore and you fell into the asphalt , this can happen with any brand , model , and this silly word "over-lean" , it should not exist , who is to decide when you have so called overleaned ? is it a fake god watching all onewheelers ? , i will try it out more but I could not measure any heating problem with my new ks 18 a+ yet , leaning forward is the only way to accelerate , go faster , it´s plain stupid to even accept a product that can´t handle forward leaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 1 hour ago, Björn Hansen Hestra Sweden said: this silly word "over-lean" , it should not exist , who is to decide when you have so called overleaned ? is it a fake god watching all onewheelers ? , i will try it out more but I could not measure any heating problem with my new ks 18 a+ yet , leaning forward is the only way to accelerate , go faster , it´s plain stupid to even accept a product that can´t handle forward leaning. "Over-leaning" refers to leaning too much forwards (or backwards) for the motor to have enough torque to keep balance. Imagine letting yourself "fall forwards" while keeping your body and legs totally straight, the wheel won't stop you from falling. I think last year there was a mention somewhere quoting the Solowheel-inventor, Shane Chen, saying that they estimated the motor power would need to exceed over 10000W (10kW) to be able to stop that (apparently for a person of "normal" weight, so even more for heavy-weight riders?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peppuzzo Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 But the king-song does not give any response about? The head of gotway (Jane) is always present in this forum.. I do not understands his behavior , i think they will lost very soon a lot of riders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 16 hours ago, esaj said: "Over-leaning" refers to leaning too much forwards (or backwards) for the motor to have enough torque to keep balance. Imagine letting yourself "fall forwards" while keeping your body and legs totally straight, the wheel won't stop you from falling. I think last year there was a mention somewhere quoting the Solowheel-inventor, Shane Chen, saying that they estimated the motor power would need to exceed over 10000W (10kW) to be able to stop that (apparently for a person of "normal" weight, so even more for heavy-weight riders?). if it takes 10000w so be it , it´s time to make stronger onewheels , we can not have wheels turning off because of high speed or hitting a bump potthole , i don´t have to imagine i fell hard on the asphalt going in 40 kmh , broke my arm near the shoulder , i know i was going to fast but still it should not happen with a stronger better wheel or limit the max speed to 30 kmh on all wheels so we have more safety margins , accelerating hard equals overleaning and should not exist , everybody want´s to try acceleration and speed sometimes , i have travelled all over the world with motorcycle and i was never afraid because i trusted my bike and my driving skills , the worst thing that happened with my bike was running out of gas , also all onewheels should be sealed with silicone to make them 100% waterproof or send a clear soft vinyl cover to use in rain to every buyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 4 hours ago, peppuzzo said: But the king-song does not give any response about? The head of gotway (Jane) is always present in this forum.. I do not understands his behavior , i think they will lost very soon a lot of riders. it´s not only kingsong , this can happen with all brands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peppuzzo Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 If all the unicycle are not safe, they shouldn't be sells! Or we are waiting that someone dies? This is my opinion. I recommend a lawsuit with the lawyers , because this phenomenon has to stop. You can not sell an unsafe product . Who wants to join is welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 25 minutes ago, peppuzzo said: If all the unicycle are not safe, they shouldn't be sells! Or we are waiting that someone dies? This is my opinion. I recommend a lawsuit with the lawyers , because this phenomenon has to stop. You can not sell an unsafe product . Who wants to join is welcome What do you call "not safe"? If you just get just a LITTLE bit informed about EUC's, Hoverboards, Segway, Ninebot Style products.....and how this "self balancing" products are working: They are ALL NOT safe....if something Fails....you Faceplant. Ist just plain simple: Don't buy one...... KingSong is generally known as one of the "safest" brand...but like someone mentioned before...Fails can always happen! A "self balancing" ...what ever product can not be safe as Long as you are not at least on 2 wheels and have !every! part of it's interns in double ...called redundacy! A Segway is very near with complete redundancy but because of this(and some other things) it cost at least 4 times the Price of a ninebot of this category..... How can a "one wheel" get redundancy with his one Motor? Will never happen.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peppuzzo Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 For if you are the owner of Kingsong ? In your opinion , if a motorcycle declared by the parent company as 100knh maximum speed when it comes to 80kmh goes off , give yourself safe ? I'm not an engineer , but when I buy something I want you to work , not going off suddenly . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarrett Bowers Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 3 hours ago, Björn Hansen Hestra Sweden said: if it takes 10000w so be it , it´s time to make stronger onewheels , we can not have wheels turning off because of high speed or hitting a bump potthole , i don´t have to imagine i fell hard on the asphalt going in 40 kmh , broke my arm near the shoulder , i know i was going to fast but still it should not happen with a stronger better wheel or limit the max speed to 30 kmh on all wheels so we have more safety margins , accelerating hard equals overleaning and should not exist , everybody want´s to try acceleration and speed sometimes , i have travelled all over the world with motorcycle and i was never afraid because i trusted my bike and my driving skills , the worst thing that happened with my bike was running out of gas , also all onewheels should be sealed with silicone to make them 100% waterproof or send a clear soft vinyl cover to use in rain to every buyer @Björn Hansen Hestra Sweden did you fall and break your arm riding your KS18A+ or a different EUC? Björn Hansen Hestra Sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 2 hours ago, peppuzzo said: If all the unicycle are not safe, they shouldn't be sells! Or we are waiting that someone dies? We don't have any statistics but if we did I would be willing to bet the major cause of EUC crashes would be the same as the major cause of pedestrian, bicycle, motorcycle, and automobile accidents. People going too fast, people not paying attention, inexperienced drivers, that sort of thing. And I don't necessarily mean it was all the EUC rider's fault, but we've all had close calls with cars, bikes, or pedestrians who do unpredictable things. We all need to be careful and that's not something that EUC firmware can dictate. 3 hours ago, Björn Hansen Hestra Sweden said: if it takes 10000w so be it , it´s time to make stronger onewheels , we can not have wheels turning off because of high speed or hitting a bump potthole , i don´t have to imagine i fell hard on the asphalt going in 40 kmh , broke my arm near the shoulder , i know i was going to fast but still it should not happen with a stronger better wheel or limit the max speed to 30 kmh on all wheels so we have more safety margins I am very sorry you crashed. I have crashed twice at high speeds due to overlean and been very lucky to come away with just some really nasty road rash. Yet after a year and a lot more riding experience I know that my riding was to blame in both situations. It sounds like you know you were pushing the limits. 3 hours ago, Björn Hansen Hestra Sweden said: accelerating hard equals overleaning and should not exist , everybody want´s to try acceleration and speed sometimes When you lean forward aggressively the only thing the EUC can do to counter that and keep you balanced over the wheel is to GO FASTER. So it sounds like what you want is an EUC that lets you go 100kph if necessary to keep you balanced. At some point you will be going too fast to control the wheel and fall off with the slightest disturbance--if you think getting the wobbles on a motorcycle is scary, try it on an EUC! I don't see that this danger is much different than saying "everybody wants to try 200kph in their car" when the car and road conditions aren't good enough for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 30 minutes ago, dmethvin said: We don't have any statistics but if we did I would be willing to bet the major cause of EUC crashes would be the same as the major cause of pedestrian, bicycle, motorcycle, and automobile accidents. People going too fast, people not paying attention, inexperienced drivers, that sort of thing. And I don't necessarily mean it was all the EUC rider's fault, but we've all had close calls with cars, bikes, or pedestrians who do unpredictable things. We all need to be careful and that's not something that EUC firmware can dictate. I am very sorry you crashed. I have crashed twice at high speeds due to overlean and been very lucky to come away with just some really nasty road rash. Yet after a year and a lot more riding experience I know that my riding was to blame in both situations. It sounds like you know you were pushing the limits. When you lean forward aggressively the only thing the EUC can do to counter that and keep you balanced over the wheel is to GO FASTER. So it sounds like what you want is an EUC that lets you go 100kph if necessary to keep you balanced. At some point you will be going too fast to control the wheel and fall off with the slightest disturbance--if you think getting the wobbles on a motorcycle is scary, try it on an EUC! I don't see that this danger is much different than saying "everybody wants to try 200kph in their car" when the car and road conditions aren't good enough for that. haha , yes then i can compete with cars on the highway no i want the opposite , safety is more important than speed , i only want it to handle enough current voltage so it can balance even a heavy weight person or if you go on a bad road with small pottholes and bumps at higher speed , yes i could sometimes feel a wobble and i don´t know why , some members here suggest changing position on the pedals would help , on my euc i have 4 warnings , maybe its better to have the 3 first warnings at 30 kmh and Ollie speed at 35 kmh , when i crashed then the first 2 warnings was turned off and the last 2 set on max speed 40 kmh , i also wonder if the software goes badaboom if someone manage to go over the programmed limits in the android app or if it is the engine that cant handle more speed , i will gladly go with max 30 kmh if it will prevent falling into my happy place , i have tried it up to the top of our mountain here and down again without any problems or warning signals , I weight 106 kg and it´s 30 degrees step the last part before reaching the top , maybe i should join Biggest looser and adjust my weight to 60 kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 On 2016-06-29 at 8:16 PM, Bob de Bie said: Same problem whit the kingsong 18a 1360wh 1200 watt shots down while driving it I had a gotway before never had this problem just had this wheel for few days I broke my arm and hand my hand will never be the same by failure of the kingson 18a maenfactory dont give any respons on my acident shame on them is there some one how can help me white this problem i know how you feel , i hope it´s not a bug , i talked with a pro euc offroad driver , gotway 18 , he said it happened to him to , for extra safety he uses a mobile phone in his pocket that vibrates over a certain speed https://youtu.be/c-CplR8Gvb4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 If safety is an absolute priority you probably should not be riding on one wheel! Everyone has different expectations of safety and these EUC's have literally fallen short in some circumstances. It's still a pretty new technology that is evolving, but there likely aren't any easy solutions coming quickly to prevent injuries from happening. A 10,000 watt electric motor would probably be pretty large maybe about the size of a car tire so although it might be safer it might not be as much fun rolling around on. If you go rolling on roller blades there is a chance of injury. What is a safe speed? Should roller blade makers limit the wheels to spin so you only go 5 kph? People go skiing all the time. People get killed or injured while skiing. What is a safe skiing speed? Maybe skis should have drag weights or claws to prevent them from going over 10 KPH. That would be safer. With certain activities there will be risks that have to be acknowledged. Sometimes we have to take responsibility for our own actions and understand our limits as well as that of our equipment. Back to the car analogy, I wish I could drive my car at 60 KPH and not get killed or injured under any circumstances even if I crash into something. Just like anything there usually are limits. It's a trick to find out what the limits are as sometimes they aren't that obvious. It would be nice if EUC manufacturers could set the speed limit low enough to have some reserve power to accommodate over-leans, hill gradients, sudden accelerations, etc, but there can be too many factors like rider weight, wind, road resistance, etc to calculate the proper setting. They should program proper warnings and tiltbacks to try to avoid a majority of accidents, but then people complain about the settings and want to have more control over them so there's not always a happy medium. For example if a wheel has a practical maximum terminal velocity of about 40 KPH, what should they set the tiltback at? 30? 20? Remember that terminal velocity changes with weight, wind, road conditions (bumpy vs smooth), road gradients, battery condition and charge, etc... so it's more a floating point value. People can still overcome warnings by accelerating faster than the wheel can tiltback at so overall it can be tricky to make things safer. These EUC's are not like other vehicles so you can't treat them as such. Imagine if someone made a motorcycle with a variable maximum terminal velocity of 40 kph which if you go over a little will end up with the motorcycle guaranteed to crash. Would you be pushing it to 40 kph? Probably not so why do it on one wheel? I think people have to remember these aren't e-bikes or motorcycles or mopeds or cars. There's only one wheel so you have to change your thinking and understand some of the principles behind how they work as they can be safe only up to a certain point. Manufacturers can try to improve them, but we have to rely on our own judgement as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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