I had Enough of China

[MetricUSA]

After my purchase of the s20, that will be my last purchase of China made products!!! China has increasingly more hostile towards foreigners and countries, I can not stand by and continue to watch this madness...SORRY, euc community, you will suffer if all wheels are made only in China...

[goatman]

EVERYTHING is made in China, 

you will own nothing

you will not be happy

[Mango]

Unfortunately, the yuan will become the world’s reserve currency after USA prints the US dollar into oblivion. China-made products here to stay because Americans love their cheap priced goods.

[Menace]

6 hours ago, MetricUSA said:

that will be my last purchase of China made products

Yeah, thats not really possible. No tooth brushes, toothfloss, tires, cars, toasters, chewing gum, potato chips, computers, etc. Even when you go buy something that is American made it is probably assembled from Chinese components and materials and packaged in Chinese plastic bags.

[litewave]

6 hours ago, MetricUSA said:

China <Insert your country here> has increasingly more hostile towards foreigners and countries, I can not stand by and continue to watch this madness...

There, I fixed that for you. 

[houseofjob]

7 hours ago, MetricUSA said:

After my purchase of the s20, that will be my last purchase of China made products!!! China has increasingly more hostile towards foreigners and countries, I can not stand by and continue to watch this madness...SORRY, euc community, you will suffer if all wheels are made only in China...

First of all, let's get things straight here: it's CCP-originating hostility etc, and it's always been there, just that the pandemic and social media has amplified international awareness of it. The Chinese are also victims here remember (well, non-Pinkies; think Tiananmen etc.). And China does not equal CCP, no matter how hard they try to get you to think this.

 

Also, it seems you are too new to remember why all EUCs are made in China: because Shane Chen / Inventist is taking advantage of our US shit-show patent laws and suing any and all US-based profitable EUC outlet who can't pay-up. If there was no copycat China EUC market that formed soon-after, we would all still be riding 12-16mph SoloWheels today, this is not debatable, look at FutureMotion and their OneWheel product: they sue anyone that infringes on their OneWheel sideways-standing self-balancing patent, then stagnate on development while continuing to rake in money on their over-priced flagship. OneWheels have essentially been stuck-in-time for the past 8 years, since their inception, performance-wise (I don't count the puny speed and/or battery upgrade), which is why you see a growing trickle of OneWheelers crossing over into EUCs nowadays.

 

So it's a mixed bag: in the US you get patent trolling that leads to stagnation (really wish our gov fixed this), while in China you get the copycat EUC market progression, but with no accountability on quality control, not to mention the good old communist "good enough" cha bu duo 差不多 mindset.

 

The bigger problem I see here is, the EUC community falls for any shiny new EUC being advertised, without being meticulous in scrutinizing every nook and cranny of the new product, because this is China we're talking about, not a Western quality controlled product, so you cannot take stuff like quality control and engineering for granted with made-in-China products like you can with Western-made ones. Even Mainlanders know this much better than the Western consumers, as they will prefer, for example, made in Japan or made in Korea (gross generalization of course; it depends on the category of product), if they can afford to do so and have the access, this is well known.

 

In the case of the S20, aka "S22", there were red flags from the beginning without ever having seen the pre-production model: KingSong, a brand not known for high speed performance, jumping from 84V to 126V inexplicably; usage of the infamous Mainland factory LG M50LT cells in 4P configuration, which has been the recent recipe for wheel fires.

You really can't fall for the marketing hype or aesthetics, you have to dig deeper under the hood IMHO (there have been plenty of EUC models in history that have had relatively few issues, brand-regardless, every EUC brand has had F-ups with certain models).

You have to demand more to get better quality, can't just throw money at wheels because of FOMO. I've been dying to upgrade to a new wheel, but I don't see much that passes my new wheel EUC eyeball tests I've built over the past 7 years, so I simply just keep waiting.

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by houseofjob

[Jswizzy84]

2 hours ago, goatman said:

EVERYTHING is made in China, 

you will own nothing

you will not be happy

You forgot you will eat the bugs.

 

Seriously though food shortages are looking likely and China has been buying and investing heavily in food production abroad including in the US. 

[goatman]

1 hour ago, Jswizzy84 said:

You forgot you will eat the bugs.

 

Seriously though food shortages are looking likely and China has been buying and investing heavily in food production abroad including in the US. 

no i will not eat bugs

i was going to buy some silver a couple years ago but you cant eat silver

 i bought a boat so i could  eat fish and escape from the zombies, then made it electric so i didnt have to pay $10/gallon trying to catch that fish

( gas just hit $2.16 liter)

then i stocked up on tires and batteries for the ebikes

im not your typical prepper that buys prepper food

its like that saying

give a man a fish and feed him for a day

teach a man to fish and feed him for life

old Klausy says 

you will own nothing and be happy

i beg to differ, i dont care where my stuff is made

its all mine,mine,mine and im happy

 

[Tawpie]

There is hope though. Sherman set a new high bar. Hero was surprisingly good. Master (thus far, it's still in the honeymoon phase) improved on Hero. S20 had a fatal software problem but did really well on nearly all of their design decisions. I think the designers and manufacturers of our toys are capable of upping their game, and actually, I think they are doing it right now. With this year's offerings.

Of course, you can't get a flashy 2022 model for under 2000USD anymore so there is that, but if you could get such a beast we'd surely bash it for being cheaply built, woefully underperforming, dangerous, and totally unworthy in all respects. That's kind of the flip side of insisting that we get 'safe vehicles', instead of 'amusing toys'.

And before we get too fixated that our wheel's design/manufacturing issues are due to their country of origin, and think a domestic manufacturer will do better just because they're domestic, check out Tesla's 2020 initial quality ranking.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/25/21302804/tesla-ranks-last-on-influential-jd-power-quality-survey

Edited May 6, 2022 by Tawpie

[RoboFixIt]

Separating us by country is another division tactic, the core of the issue we are are all facing today is that that they covered up true history of zero point energy and sustainable technology so we would be dependant on the system to buy water, food, power etc...

Edited May 6, 2022 by ElectronxCycles

[.....]

7 hours ago, goatman said:

EVERYTHING is made in China, 

you will own nothing

you will not be happy

Not EVERYTHING, but almost. I still try hard to find products made in USA by smaller companies stationed in USA. It's pretty slim pickins and mostly simpler tooling and tools. Still, if you look hard enough and are willing to dig deeper into your wallet, you can find a few things. I go out of my way to patron 'expensive' local stores/products. Its the least I can do and I hope it becomes a trend. If NOONE ponies up to pay more when they can, there won't be any choices. It may be a world market, but surely a few people place value in HOW a product is made, and are willing to put their money where their mouth is. Sadly, EUC manufacturing is monopolized atm for the most part. EIther we buy what there is, or there may be NOTHING to choose from.

Spending so much money on 'vehicles' made in China, makes my head hurt, but theres simply no choices. IF euc riding wasnt so damn awesome, I would have refused to spend another dime on them myself. At least I'm rocking some 'older' wheels that were part of the trend when they were being made as improvements on known tech. Given the choice of last year's proven wheel that does what a person needs, vs a wheel that is mere rumors... Most people want the 'new' one. Doesnt matter how many times its proven a folly to do so, people still do. If you make it more expensive, people want THAT one, cuz it MUST be better. I am not exempt from this method of purchasing either.

Fwiw, I'm not impressed by FutureMotion's bizz strategy either. JUST being made in USA isnt enough. Obviously shit products or evil policies are a global possibility.

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by ShanesPlanet

[Paul A]

China may not remain the world's factory indefinitely.

Labour costs in particular are rising.

A generation of 'one child' policy has created shortages in the labor pool.

Africa is at the start of a population boom projected to reach 2 billion by 2050, the largest labor pool in the world.

Chinese manufacturers are sub contracting production to, setting up/building factories in, hiring African workers, etc.

India is another possible candidate.

 

Simple google search will find many articles on the subject.

 

One example:

https://hbr.org/2017/05/the-worlds-next-great-manufacturing-center

 

The World’s Next Great Manufacturing Center

by Irene Yuan Sun

From the Magazine (May–June 2017)

 

[Unventor]

One can always point towards a country as the root causes to a problem. That is the easy way that works well on people that don't want to hear the real problem. 

Now EUCs has developed very fast. And we are not getting to a point where speed and range means risks amps up. Batteries have yet to get a mainstream safety breakthrough. And as motor volts go up for higher speed riding then that too prøve other parts needs to be taking into consideration for a safety point. 

Now with people booking preorder without a real wheel to show does not help the safety chain either. It means the pressure is on to rush a competitive wheel from other brands. 

That is why I think you hit a very good point @houseofjob. 

Now on top of all this we are seeing problems with supply and logistics in many areas. This I think will be the future that changes where things are made/build. I also think people would get more into region made things from an environment consideration. There will always be simple-minded lemming train buying power. But the smart consumer will grow. The type that buy what they need when they need it and understand some things comes at a price.

Cheap is not always a good thing. But expensive is no guarantee for quality either. 

[Paul A]

Even US manufacturers struggle to produce quality/safe products.

 

Why Tesla, GM And Other EV Companies Have A Fire Problem

172,127 views

Jan 26, 2022

CNBC

2.69M subscribers

 

[RockyTop]

 @Paul A and I agree.  “China may not remain the worlds factory indefinitely”

The world is changing. It will never be the same as 2019 again. China lacks resources ( energy and materials) and they will not likely get the resources from the places that they have been. China has invested heavily in Africa. This may or may not pay off. Their population is aging and not being replaced. If China succeeds their products will likely be more expensive. If they fail…. No products. 
 

People are not as well informed as they think. We have been told all our life the population will double every 40 years. When a local person called a radio station and mentioned the future population decline he was laughed off the radio. Few people realize that our population is going to start dropping drastically in 20 years. The numbers are easy to find. In a first world country every woman would have to have 2.1 children to keep a constant population. We are below 1.7. In more hostile first world countries the number would have to be closer to 2.4. ( You have to live long enough to reproduce) My grandparents had 5 and that was fairly normal at the time. My parents had 2. I had two and fostered/adopted one. My sibling had none. Now this is normal. China’ one child policy although reversed is social still effective. 

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by RockyTop

[Paul A]

@RockyTop yes, the US birth rate has been declining, and a mystery as to why.

https://econofact.org/the-mystery-of-the-declining-u-s-birth-rate

February 15, 2022

The Mystery of the Declining U.S. Birth Rate

The U.S. birth rate has fallen by 20% since 2007. This decline cannot be explained by demographic, economic, or policy changes.

[alcatraz]

15 hours ago, Paul A said:

Chinese manufacturers are sub contracting production to, setting up/building factories in, hiring African workers, etc.

Bingo. That's their plan. Move manufacturing to Africa.

Made in China products will eventually be of high or higher quality than many other countries, but also more expensive. The affordable stuff will come out of Africa.

[alcatraz]

The argument "chinese crap" is going to lose its meaning with time.

I'm a bit concerned because I live in China and I like the availability of all this domesitically produced stuff. If everything affordable needs to be imported from Africa with expensive tariffs, it will turn China into my home country where everything is expensive as hell and difficult to source.

Time to move to Africa? 

Edited May 7, 2022 by alcatraz

[litewave]

1 hour ago, alcatraz said:

The argument "chinese crap" is going to lose its meaning with time.

I'm a bit concerned because I live in China and I like the availability of all this domesitically produced stuff. If everything affordable needs to be imported from Africa with expensive tariffs, it will turn China into my home country where everything is expensive as hell and difficult to source.

Time to move to Africa? 

In the US during the 60's and 70's, the slur was "Japanese crap", which was gradually replaced by "Chinese crap" in the late 80s. Since the mid 2010s, I'd say that "Chinese Crap" has become pretty damn good. China now leads the world in manufacturing and arguably innovation in many industries, and has become the source for all our electric unicycles. I'd say give them the credit they are due, and thank them for continuing to innovate and keep us well-supplied. As for everyone else, stop crying, put on your big girl pants and start your own EUC company.

[redsnapper]

19 hours ago, RockyTop said:

The numbers are easy to find. In a first world country every woman would have to have 2.1 children to keep a constant population. We are below 1.7. In more hostile first world countries the number would have to be closer to 2.4. ( You have to live long enough to reproduce) My grandparents had 5 and that was fairly normal at the time. My parents had 2. I had two and fostered/adopted one. My sibling had none. Now this is normal. China’ one child policy although reversed is social still effective. 

A good visual on population trends - https://www.visualcapitalist.com/aging-global-population-problem/

DEMOGRAPHICS

The Implications of an Aging Population

The world is experiencing a seismic demographic shift—and no country is immune to the consequences.

While increasing life expectancy and declining birth rates are considered major achievements in modern science and healthcare, they will have a significant impact on future generations.

Today’s graphic relies on OECD data to demonstrate how the old-age to working-age ratio will change by 2060, highlighting some of the world’s fastest aging countries.

The Demographic Debacle

By 2050, there will be 10 billion people on earth, compared to 7.7 billion today—and many of them will be living longer. As a result, the number of elderly people per 100 working-age people will nearly triple—from 20 in 1980, to 58 in 2060.

Populations are getting older in all OECD countries, yet there are clear differences in the pace of aging. For instance, Japan holds the title for having the oldest population, with ⅓ of its citizens already over the age of 65. By 2030, the country’s workforce is expected to fall by 8 million—leading to a major potential labor shortage.

In another example, while South Korea currently boasts a younger than average population, it will age rapidly and end up with the highest old-to-young ratio among developed countries.

A Declining Workforce

Globally, the working-age population will see a 10% decrease by 2060. It will fall the most drastically by 35% or more in Greece, Japan, Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, and Poland. On the other end of the scale, it will increase by more than 20% in Australia, Mexico, and Israel.

[shellac]

On 5/6/2022 at 9:10 PM, litewave said:

In the US during the 60's and 70's, the slur was "Japanese crap", which was gradually replaced by "Chinese crap" in the late 80s. Since the mid 2010s, I'd say that "Chinese Crap" has become pretty damn good. China now leads the world in manufacturing and arguably innovation in many industries, and has become the source for all our electric unicycles. I'd say give them the credit they are due, and thank them for continuing to innovate and keep us well-supplied. As for everyone else, stop crying, put on your big girl pants and start your own EUC company.

yep, sinophobia is the new japanophobia

 

[Paul A]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-china-rights-idUSKCN1TI236

June 18, 2019

China is harvesting organs from Falun Gong members, finds expert panel

LONDON (Thomson Reuters Foundation) - China is murdering members of the Falun Gong spiritual group and harvesting their organs for transplant, a panel of lawyers and experts said on Monday as they invited further investigations into a potential genocide.

Members said they had heard clear evidence forced organ harvesting had taken place over at least 20 years in a final judgement from the China Tribunal, an independent panel set up by a campaign group to examine the issue.

“The conclusion shows that very many people have died indescribably hideous deaths for no reason,” said the tribunal chairman Sir Geoffrey Nice in the judgement.

 

The China Tribunal was set up by the International Coalition to End Transplant Abuse in China, a campaign group, charged with examining whether crimes had been committed as a result of China’s transplant practices.

The seven-member panel found it was “beyond doubt” that forced organ harvesting from prisoners has taken place “on a substantial scale by state-supported or approved organizations and individuals” in an interim judgement released in December.

[shellac]

Yep @Paul A that’s exactly the type of sinophobia I’m talking about. It’s really no different from the blood libel antisemites use against Jews, saying that they use the blood of babies or whatever.

When you see nonsense printed like that in the media, you need to have more of a skeptical eye, and look at who’s saying these things and what their agenda actually is. In this case, anti CCP Falun Gong cultists from the far right.

Edited May 10, 2022 by shellac

[Paul A]

The source is Reuters.

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/reuters/

 

• Overall, we rate Reuters Least Biased based on objective reporting and Very High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing of information with minimal bias and a clean fact check record.

---

Detailed Report

Bias Rating: LEAST BIASED
Factual Reporting: VERY HIGH
Country: United Kingdom
Press Freedom Rank: MOSTLY FREE
Media Type: News Agency
Traffic/Popularity: High Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: HIGH CREDIBILITY

[Paul A]

Reuters

News agency company

 

Main results

Description

Reuters is an international news agency owned by Thomson Reuters. It employs around 2,500 journalists and 600 photojournalists in about 200 locations worldwide. Reuters is one of the largest news agencies in the world. The agency was established in London in 1851 by the German-born Paul Reuter. Wikipedia

Founder: Paul Reuter

Founded: October 1851

Headquarters: Canary Wharf, London, United Kingdom

President: Stephen J. Adler