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Putting a Street Tire on the Veteran Sherman MAX


FrenchUsa

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I have the Max and I'm in the city so I'm really interested in swapping out the Kenda for a street tire. This video doesn't give too much info into the feel of the street tire vs the Kenda tire. I know Kuji did a video about the Sherman and the street tire before as well.

Anyway, anyone with some knowledge/experience with a street tire on the Sherman: what's the difference in how it rides and feels compared to the stock Kenda off-road tire? Is the difference worth the change?

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I got to compare knobby and street tires on the EX.N just a few days ago. (I don't think it really matters what wheel you use for this comparison.)

It's a gigantic difference, to the point where I found the knobby tire almost unrideable after being used to the street tire. Turning feels a lot different, and the street tire is a lot more wobbly. I think this is due to the knobby tire being a lot flatter on the outside compared to a street tire, the flatness makes it stable but also makes turning feel a lot different.

So you're facing a tradeoff, more stability and less maneuverability on the knobby tire, or more maneuverability and less stability on a street tire. Would be interesting to see if there are some good intermediate options

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21 minutes ago, Skeptikos said:

So you're facing a tradeoff, more stability and less maneuverability on the knobby tire, or more maneuverability and less stability on a street tire. Would be interesting to see if there are some good intermediate options

This is a very good comparison. I'm leaning towards not changing the off-road tire for a couple reasons. The first is that eventually it'll wear down, and at that point I'll likely be so used to it it won't matter much anyway (that could take years from what I gather); the second, I don't find the Kenda off-road to be too rigid in maneuverability -- perhaps the first week had it, but I haven't had an unexpected tilt/dip on turning since that time (did I wear it in?). Thirdly, I'm not too sure if I want to sacrifice stability for wobbles, especially on a heavy/fast wheel. I am very curious to how the street tire feels though.

I recently got back on my 16X after being accustomed to the Sherman. It felt squirrelly. But what this tells me is that I become accustomed to either tire overtime anyway.

Edited by bkw
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23 hours ago, Eucner said:

Did they have same tire pressure and equal ply's? There is no point in comparison if these are not known.

Knobby tire around 50psi, street tire 30-35 psi. Honestly I don't think the street tire would be rideable at 50psi due to its wobbliness. I don't know what ply is. Personally I found the comparison very enlightening, but you can take from it whatever you want.

Edit: If it helps, it was this Kenda tire vs. whatever knobby tire comes stock on the EX.N.

Spoiler

3uTpXw6.jpg

 

Edited by Skeptikos
add tire pic
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On 4/29/2022 at 2:11 AM, bkw said:

I have the Max and I'm in the city so I'm really interested in swapping out the Kenda for a street tire. This video doesn't give too much info into the feel of the street tire vs the Kenda tire. I know Kuji did a video about the Sherman and the street tire before as well.

Anyway, anyone with some knowledge/experience with a street tire on the Sherman: what's the difference in how it rides and feels compared to the stock Kenda off-road tire? Is the difference worth the change?

If you ride mostly street, the street tire performs better. I dont have a max, but used the knobby and a now a pirelli on my sherman. I made a vid of it, but I doubt theres much useful information in it.  Pirelli only cost me $40 and well worth every penny. I still have the knobby and a spare rim, but have ZERO inclination to change it back. My sherm rides more solid and planted with the pirelli. It has a linear lean over, vs the 'fall over' of the knobby. It also sound much quieter and will likely outlast a knobby in spades. Fwiw, I ran both at a paltry 20psi, as I weigh a mere 125lbs.

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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53 minutes ago, pkinpdx said:

Its hard to say exactly what the ride comparison would feel like without knowing what tire you are thinking about switching to.  I have ridden my Max with the stock knobby (only about 60 miles), the Pirelli Angel (about 100 miles), and the Michelin city grip 2 (about 200 miles and counting).  To me the knobby feels bouncy but still stable at speed when going straight but on turns it dives a bit and i cant stand the slippy feeling of the knobs flexing as you turn hard.  The Pirelli felt really good at low speed (agile and great grip).  It is also smaller than the knobby so it increases torque even more and is super efficient as the rolling resistance is way down.  However, it being small gives you less clearance (i had major pedal scrapes on turns) and is so stable at high speed (35+ MPH) that its hard to get into turns.  My current city grip 2  is as big as the knobby but does not have any flex (just standing on your EUC flattens the knobs so you get a smaller tire) so it rides bigger.  It has a better round profile than the Pirelli so its easier to turn at high speed and has better clearance so no pedal scrapes.  It is heavier and bigger so I'm guessing its a little less efficient than the Pirelli.  I also feel like a lost a bit of torque compared to the Pirelli.  There are trade offs for every tire.

Wow. This gave me a lot to think about! Thanks. A lot of good info here.

53 minutes ago, pkinpdx said:

To me the knobby feels bouncy but still stable at speed when going straight but on turns it dives a bit and i cant stand the slippy feeling of the knobs flexing as you turn hard.

This is the main reason why I would consider switching from the stock tire to a street tire. I don't like the sensation of the knobs flexing either, especially on turns, on the street.

I've also noticed when you go over grates in the street the knobby kenda tire becomes magnitudes less stable and almost slippery-like. You would think it'd grib better due to the knobs entering the holes in the grate, but it has the opposite effect:

sidewalk-metal-grating-picture-id1467371

 

And just for reference, I'll post the videos of Kuji and Wrong Way's videos on the Sherman street tires. Wrong Way is using the Michelin City Pro 80/90-14, which is one I'm considering. Wrong Way says he get less torque with a street tire, which doesn't make much sense to me since a street tire would have more contact with the road?:

 

 

Edited by bkw
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55 minutes ago, bkw said:

Wrong Way says he get less torque with a street tire, which doesn't make much sense to me since a street tire would have more contact with the road?:

So my non expert opinion on why:  If tires have different diameters then the ratio changes from motor output.  Bigger tires feel less torquey.  If the tires are equal in diameter then the lighter tire will feel like it has more torque because it will be easier for the motor to accelerate (or decelerate) rotation.  Many of the moto tires are reinforced which adds lots of weight.  on the other hand the reinforced tire will be much safer to run at lower psi for more control and grip (more surface area of the tire in contact with the road) because they are less likely to be pushed in to dent the rim.

Edited by pkinpdx
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From my small experience,  I can say that you can't tell how the tire is if you've not ridden it for at least 1000km, before this you're still learning how to manage the tire and you've not yet experienced benefits but only seeing differences with your old tire.
I changed my C-1488 with a Metzeler Sportec 70/90R14 on my KS18XL and for the first 50km I was about to revert to the stock one.
Even after 200km I felt unstable at high speed and on cornering.
Now, after about 2000km over this tire, I love it.
Even Kuji Rolls (that is one of my favorite youtuber) has tested the street tire for a too short mileage(IMHO), his conclusion is the same as mine after 200km, too few to be able to say it is better or not.

Edited by digithom
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On 4/30/2022 at 9:58 PM, pkinpdx said:

So my non expert opinion on why:  If tires have different diameters then the ratio changes from motor output.  Bigger tires feel less torquey.  If the tires are equal in diameter then the lighter tire will feel like it has more torque because it will be easier for the motor to accelerate (or decelerate) rotation.  Many of the moto tires are reinforced which adds lots of weight.  on the other hand the reinforced tire will be much safer to run at lower psi for more control and grip (more surface area of the tire in contact with the road) because they are less likely to be pushed in to dent the rim.

Agreed. Nothing to do with contact patch, unless you are spinning the wheel which very rarely happens on an EUC.

The MC tyre weights are not to be under estimated either, they average an extra kilo or so over the usual tyres fitted. All that reinforcement adds more weight than people think. Of course, they are far more durable and resistant to punctures as a result.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have to say, I've put on close to 650 miles thus far on the Max and the feel of the kenda hasn't had that sharp dip feel for a while now. I look at the knobs from the middle of the wheel and to the sides and they look more even nowadays, making it look more rounded. Just wanted to give that update for those who may be wondering

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4 hours ago, lazybones99 said:

Does this mean you can fit a 90/90 tire on the max? 😃

Only with tire shaving.  I ended up taking a good chunk of rubber off each side.  For me it was worth it as I have the ultimate long range road tire now.  It protects the rim, smooths bumps, and carves like a dream at 40mph.

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On 6/1/2022 at 9:19 AM, pkinpdx said:

Only with tire shaving.  I ended up taking a good chunk of rubber off each side.  For me it was worth it as I have the ultimate long range road tire now.  It protects the rim, smooths bumps, and carves like a dream at 40mph.

Thanks for your incite and experience with the Michelin City Grip 2, having fitted it to the Sherman (albeit with the necessity to trim large amounts of rubber from both sides).

I have had this specific Michelin on my radar, with a view to fitting it to the S22 (some time in the far distant future, for obvious reasons currently!), having had a fantastic all round experience with the Michelin City Pro on my own Sherman.

Although it is ONLY available in 90/90-14, I have every confidence that it will be an excellent street option for the S22 and able to fit without ANY mods/clearance issues.

To this end I was very recently able to buy the very last and ONLY available 90/90-14 City Grip 2 in New Zealand.

As you described earlier, the sidewalls and tread are very thick to protect rims at lower pressure. The main tradeoff for me being ALL that extra rubber pushes the weight up to around 3kg, according to my scales!

Edited by fbhb
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