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KS S22 Battery/Firmware/BMS Problem


Elliott Reitz

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It was on the charger since Monday.  Today (wed) it just beeps while the charger is attached.  Above is the error message.  The last firmware upload I did was a few weeks back when KS released 2.19.  That seemed fine till today.

Edited by Elliott Reitz
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I've also used the KS app and found the individual battery readouts for bat-1, and bat2.  Its my bat1 that's barely reaching 124V while the bat2 is reaching 124.9.  And I doubt the previous posts saying my volt meeter is inacurate to measure 126v (its rated 100mv accuracy to 200V). 

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I understand.
I mean it's good that the BMS can alert of issues, but it sucks that there's already a problem with it. Very little elements to establish a cause besides leaving on charger for a long time, which should certainly be handled gracefully by a Smart BMS.

It's more discrepancy than before between your packs if I recall, I wonder if it could be the cause of the alert, which is very vague.
what would happen if you discharge the pack charged more than the other?

Also, this alert is entirely contradictory with the fact that you can use the SoftTuner app and take readouts from both packs. Then they're not disconnected!
At some point, KS software/firmware seems to be just a buggy mess I'm afraid.

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1 hour ago, supercurio said:

I understand.
I mean it's good that the BMS can alert of issues, but it sucks that there's already a problem with it. Very little elements to establish a cause besides leaving on charger for a long time, which should certainly be handled gracefully by a Smart BMS.

It's more discrepancy than before between your packs if I recall, I wonder if it could be the cause of the alert, which is very vague.
what would happen if you discharge the pack charged more than the other?

Also, this alert is entirely contradictory with the fact that you can use the SoftTuner app and take readouts from both packs. Then they're not disconnected!
At some point, KS software/firmware seems to be just a buggy mess I'm afraid.

Yes I agree and IDK the answers to your questions.

Also, I'm a believer in BMS while permanently on charger while not in use.  I've had multiple battery failures of all sorts of batteries and 99% of them have been from being allowed to over-discharge (from small leakage), especially through winter.  And note KS wheels never fully turn off.  That means you eather leave it on a charger or it will die when you don't use it.  KS fixed a "Battery Vampire" issue in my S18 too.  

WHy is this hard for a manufacturer?

Edited by Elliott Reitz
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2 hours ago, Elliott Reitz said:

Its my bat1 that's barely reaching 124V while the bat2 is reaching 124.9

Major downer. That's a warranty claim... you get to be first in another thing too. I do feel badly for you—you have been having so much fun.

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43 minutes ago, supercurio said:

Did you try with only 1 pack connected by the way @Elliott Reitz?

Yea, thanks - its on the charger with the right battery dissconnected now.  Its still beeping, says 32 and 27 now.  It didn't seem to be doing any charging with 1 side disconnected and isn't reading the voltage of the left battery either.  I also tried installing it backwards so L-R bat=swap and when I did that it said both left and right bms/cables were disconnected.  Also, with VOM on bat-, the bms cable on the controller both read the same (5.6 black wire and 15.7 V for red ).  

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Oh okay. That doesn't sound too good.

At some point it might be wise to disconnect everything and wait for replacement or software update that would fix that.
One thing we've learned is that KS software can be pretty buggy, including on safety critical elements.

I hope that KS engineers can look at what's up there shortly, they really should. Can you ask to ship the packs back to them on short notice for analysis?

Edited by supercurio
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Probably not, they promised to get S22 back from their a shipment to Ecodrift presumably to make sure they were all flashed with the latest firmware, promising to send them between "within a week" (Ecodrift) and "the next day" (another distributor who asked confirmation).

I would insist.

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59 minutes ago, Elliott Reitz said:

I've not yet heard anythng back from KS.  I think their whole city in china is in lockdown.

Did you talk with AlienRides yet? They should be first in line for this, you shouldn't have to deal directly with KS. Unless they sold it as-is without warranty.

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On 4/22/2022 at 6:35 PM, Tawpie said:

Did you talk with AlienRides yet? They should be first in line for this, you shouldn't have to deal directly with KS. Unless they sold it as-is without warranty.

Yes.  Not like I expect him to cover any costs.  I need to send him a video. {+1} I'm intending to loosen the wires so I can swap BMS cables from L/R and leaving it charging like that for a while.  See if I can isolate between Bat-1 and the controller.

Meanwhile I had more fun on my S18 tonight.

image.thumb.jpeg.f50e6164324f9e8a391561f375de128c.jpeg

Edited by Elliott Reitz
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So KS replied, said to do what I had just tried, switching BMS wires.  It still says Left side bms fail.  So that isolates it to the controller.  KS last message was they could send one for $80shipping but then went silent.  IDK how to pay and get it here.  

 

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eWheels is helping me get my S20 out of storage minus batteries.  That should get me rolling on the Alien-Ukrain-S22 late next week.  Till then commuting on the S18 shows me the current-vs-bat-level-risk-vs-speed.  Oh and I did ebay for a scooter for dog-walker to use... get some more miles on my dogs! Mabe pass it along to daughter to ride with... or just get another.  

Edited by Elliott Reitz
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The controller's plastic cover is KS's translucent black plastic (makes perfect sense after I think about it for 2 nanoseconds)? That could potentially be really cool looking when you don't have the seat attached... brains of the beast.

BTW, that's mighty nice of eWheels to help out, although they will sell parts to anyone. Still surprised AR isn't in your camp though. I know it was an eBay purchase, but still.

Edited by Tawpie
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1 minute ago, Tawpie said:

The controller's plastic cover is KS's translucent black plastic? That could potentially be really cool looking when you don't have the seat attached... brains of the beast.

BTW, that's mighty nice of eWheels to help out, although they will sell parts to anyone. Still surprised AR isn't in your camp though. I know it was an eBay purchase, but still.

I believe in AR too.  Nobody has any ability to get anything from KS China right now.  It just so happens that eWheels is willing to help both me and AR out in this prototype wheel situation, and thanks to AR that I even got to ride an S20. 

And now, we believe in me to make more good ride videos on S22s.  There is such a difference in fast hill climbs like I rode past on Sunday on my S18.   I don't dare let my dogs open up like this pic with S22 when riding my S18.  Last time Loki did over 20 mph was with my MSX100V (Loki & I did 27mph and it was me that backed down our speed).  This time we (Loki, Teddi, and me did 23 mph even without a deer to chase).

Warm up lapc.jpg

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Today the KS rep responded with a price change and paypal... $120 for shipping the replacement motherboard.  So KS is making it "free for shipping".  I'm wondering what eWheels might think to do with the weel from their wearhouse.... like if KS is again replying to them... to air-ship bats for their 40 units (maybe they can get 50 to 100 units?)... I want to replace mine too. 

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15 hours ago, supercurio said:

When Leaperkim sent a replacement for my overheated Sherman board, it took 2 weeks total from the first report to my dealer to receiving it home.
And it cost me nothing, of course.

I feel like they're really not taking your case, both as failure they should really investigate and as customer @Elliott Reitz seriously, it's very disheartening to see.

Thanks.  I can say I bought my MSX100V without support from Alibabba and had great luck.  My S18 on the other hand was a long list of problems that started day 1 with a dead charger.  eWheels supported it perfectly - battery replacement 10 months later included. 

With this S20 prototype I paid extra to get it early with full knowledge of the risks including no support, no parts and possible fires.  Thankfully no fires.  As for the parts, nobody US side has parts for it yet. 

eWheels got my reserved 1st 40 deposit wheel out and storage and may send it minus batteries soon - or variations on the plan to gain a better set of batteries from them when KS gets that right with them (ewheels communicates well). eWheels even supported parts for my V11 after I had sold the V11 (it needed a obscure part for the handle that I didn't realize I had broken).  

As for KS in China, I'm hoping they're back from lockdown now - and get that going quickly.  

Edited by Elliott Reitz
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Update: 

1. KS-China cut a DHL shipping label for the controller.

2. eWheels is sending my 2nd S22 minus batteries (the one that I had the deposit on).  

So I should be up and running on an S22 fairly soon.  Once I have them both working I have a spare till the Master arrives.  After that I may sell one of them.

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Got it running again.   Wow, OMG, splat on the wall (almost).  

Basically I soldered the wire that had pulled loose from the motherboard.  That did nothing.  But then after pulling the batteries out and setting it up on one of those workmate benches that clamps (clamped the wheel, bat's standing on footplates).  Well I did the 1 sec reset via jumper like the KS rep suggested and wow it came to life... bucked out of the vise and only stopped because the bats flung to the floor pulling their plugs via the flinging force.  Well YAHOO!

Re-assembled and got it out for a ride, then another ride.  It doesn't look like its charging so this could be its last ride.  Bat 1 is 85% now, Bat 2 is 90%.  Next thing to try might be shorting the 2 bat-packs togeather (away from buildings).   

(+) Also, it won't "turn off".  It does unbalance when pushing the button to turn it off, but after the square goes small, it turns itself back on and that rear light doesn't turn off.  I'm hoping it doesn't kill itself (drain) overnight.  

 

20220515_145952cr.jpg

Edited by Elliott Reitz
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