Safe EUC Storage

[goatman]

you could pull a duf and hang the euc  by a rope over the barrel

[techyiam]

10 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Diameter of drum is around 23".

Lucky me, my T3 is less than 23" tall, and the V12's front and rear most points on the tire are not shrouded, so it also can wheel in, but when rolling in, it has to be in a slanted orientation.

Edited June 13, 2022 by techyiam

[Paul A]

Maybe forgo stand and just lean EUC within the drum after rolling in then.

Would need to lift lip of drum off the ground slightly afterwards to enable lid/ring clip to be used.

Might need to chock the drum.

Rolling in would be easier.

Practical experiments and video would be great.

[conecones]

This drum idea is low-cost and dependable container for sure, as long as you or people you share a home with can put up having it in the house/garage!

Couple suggestions for easy of use and safety:
- Metal/FR plywood base with casters. You need to be able to roll this outside/to the balcony in an actual fire event, smoke is just as bad.
- Intumescent paint on the inside + handles. So you don't burn your fingers off trying to move it.
- Kayak/storage hoist for lifting your EUC. I mean if you've decided to put up with an freakin' industrial oil drum sitting in your garage/apartment hallway, this can't make it much worse...
https://www.amazon.ca/Sportz-Kayak-Hoist-Quality-Capacity/dp/B001EUL2DO/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1DAGIMHIIJVVV&keywords=storage+hoist&qid=1655122911&sprefix=storage+hoist%2Caps%2C93&sr=8-5

[Funky]

I already mentioned this..

Step up from drum barrel would be this: "Electrical enclosure" Also looks much better.  (Need to drill air/went holes.) Available in many, various sizes.

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Funky

[Paul A]

The S20 fire probably wouldn't be able to be contained by any drum/cabinet/firesak etc.

The rapid gas/volume expansion, intense shooting flames, amount of heat....

Reminder video, commencing at the start of fire.

 

 

[Felix]

21 minutes ago, Funky said:

22 minutes ago, Funky said:

Step up from drum barrel would be this

What about this type of computer rack enclosure with temperature control for outdoor storage (garden, balcony, etc). 

https://patchkastwinkel.nl/22u-ip55-outdoor-19-inch-patchkast-bxdxh-600x800x1200mm/

 

[Funky]

29 minutes ago, Felix said:

 

1000$ vs my 100$ box vs 25$ drum barrel. Ofc more you spend - better protection. It's funny how that work. If you are ready to pay 3000$ you could rent a personal "Fire Fighter" 24/7 on duty.  

53 minutes ago, Funky said:

I already mentioned this..

Step up from drum barrel would be this: "Electrical enclosure" Also looks much better.  (Need to drill air/went holes.) Available in many, various sizes.

 

This is how you park the euc in box:

30 minutes ago, Paul A said:

The S20 fire probably wouldn't be able to be contained by any drum/cabinet/firesak etc.

The rapid gas/volume expansion, intense shooting flames, amount of heat....

Reminder video, commencing at the start of fire.

 

 

Enough air vents going in direction where nothing can catch fire. Could still contain, i think.. The big "burst" happen fast and not long, after that it only burns. It's also one of the "big" wheels - more batteries - bigger burst.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Funky

[Felix]

27 minutes ago, Funky said:

1000$ vs my 100$ box vs 25$ drum barrel. Ofc more you spend - better protection

I don't think 1000 bucks is that much considering a single EUC costs 2k to 3k and your house costs a few 100k or much more  , its all relative. Smoke damage alone is very annoying.  On the other hand having this ugly humming and buzzing computer box in the garden might not be my wife's dream.

[Freeforester]

‘Safe EUC storage’ 101

1) Find a ‘safe’ EUC….

🤔

[Funky]

6 minutes ago, Felix said:

I don't think 1000 bucks is that much considering a single EUC costs 2k to 3k and your house costs a few 100k or much more  , its all relative. Smoke damage alone is very annoying.  On the other hand having this ugly humming and buzzing computer box in the garden might not be my wife's dream.

Try doing like 10-15k max.. I live in apartment - brick walls between rooms.. Lock the door - let the fire GO BABY GO.  (Don't care about smoke, i care more about fire, as that will burn and so on..) Something containing fire - while i run away from smoke..  

Edited June 14, 2022 by Funky

[Paul A]

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Stack-On-22-Gun-Steel-Security-Cabinet-Safe-Black/50877961?athbdg=L1600

Stack-On 22 Gun Steel Security Cabinet Safe, Black

$278.70

Was $560.78

 

Product details

This 22-gun security cabinet is made entirely of steel and welded together.

Includes removable shelves and patented barrel rests and standoffs.

 

Assembled Product Weight

32.00 Pounds

 

Assembled Product Dimensions (L x W x H)

43.30 x 39.50 x 55.00 Inches

 

 

[Goonman]

I bought a regualr thin walled steed roll cab from hardware store. exn fits perfectly with the charger inside. It even has a hole and grommet for the power cord. I know its not double wall etc but I think it will contain most of the fire and at the very least buy me time. I have a long metal hook which I  plan on using using to drag the whole thing out of the garage with. 

[Funky]

I can't seem to find any information on "concrete", "gypsum" fireproof drywall max fire temperature they can handle. Most i found are under 500F temps.. Is that right?

Now compared that to "rockwool" that can handle up to 2000F temps. Am i missing something, or what?

How can a concrete - something made out of rock have lower temperature vs something like rockwool, that isn't solid and more or less "loose" like cotton.

It seems "rockwool" is best thing to use, if i would want to build something for somewhat "fireproof" enclosure. (material for insulating metal cabinet) Or is there some kind even "better" fireproof material out there? (Which would be sold in regular "hardware stores"?)

As i'm starting to think of building something. (For that "safety" feeling when leaving euc alone in house.)  At least it wont burn down..

Any insights in this mater would be helpful.  

Edited June 23, 2022 by Funky

[conecones]

48 minutes ago, Funky said:

I can't seem to find any information on "concrete", "gypsum" fireproof drywall max fire temperature they can handle. Most i found are under 500F temps.. Is that right?

Now compared that to "rockwool" that can handle up to 2000F temps. Am i missing something, or what?

How can a concrete - something made out of rock have lower temperature vs something like rockwool, that isn't solid and more or less "loose" like cotton.

It seems "rockwool" is best thing to use, if i would want to build something for somewhat "fireproof" enclosure. (material for insulating metal cabinet) Or is there some kind even "better" fireproof material out there? (Which would be sold in regular "hardware stores"?)

As i'm starting to think of building something. (For that "safety" feeling when leaving euc alone in house.)  At least it wont burn down..

Any insights in this mater would be helpful.  

Drywall is safe to use as a fire barrier. This "max temp" is talking about the paper backing which doesn't affect its performance. Get the Type X (or whatever fire rated drywall is called in your area) and follow an engineered partition if you want peace of mind: https://www.usg.com/content/dam/USG_Marketing_Communications/canada/product_promotional_materials/finished_assets/fire-resistant-assemblies-brochure-en-sa100-can.pdf

Rockwool is just a brand that makes various mineral-wool based insulation. I assume you are talking about the batt insulation typically found in home improvement stores - these are also fire resistant but their main purpose is a sound and/or thermal barrier, not a fire barrier, and therefore don't contribute to the overall rating of a partition. I recommend skipping this since it just takes space.

If you want something better than drywall, the next best option that's cheap and available is cement board - these are also nonflammable and don't have a paper backing. They just weigh a lot more and not as easy to cut and work with. 

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

I can't seem to find any information on "concrete", "gypsum" fireproof drywall max fire temperature they can handle. Most i found are under 500F temps.. Is that right?

"Cement board" is generally considered "noncombustible". Of course, if it's breached or it it is too close to other combustible material all bets are off. Cement board on steel studs would be pretty good. Similar to rock wool, it's also unaffected by water. This is a product sheet for cement board sold by USG (same outfit as the link @conecones provided) 

https://www.usg.com/content/dam/USG_Marketing_Communications/united_states/product_promotional_materials/finished_assets/durock-cement-board-system-guide-en-SA932.pdf

Edited June 23, 2022 by Tawpie

[Paul A]

Don't want to use the 55 gallon steel drum anymore?

[Funky]

1 minute ago, Paul A said:

Don't want to use the 55 gallon steel drum anymore?

Nah i will use that "electrical box". Just adding another layer inside for "better" protection. More heat absorption.

[Funky]

So here's what i'm thinking of building. This is inside of the metal box. The box will be laid with 2cm thick "fireproof" material. Under the box will have some bricks. The grey panel will be for holes. (I'm thinking of buying one of those 3-4mm thick metal plates and mount it on door) Also there will be 1 cm air gap, spacing between door and the plate. Holes that doesn't intercept - "breaking" the flamethrower effect. As the flame/air will bounce first from plate and then from the door - exiting the box.

The plate it self will be around 50x20cm with many 1cm holes. (Plate may be bigger.)

Any input? Any improvements could be made?

[Tawpie]

Looks good!

Take a look at fireplace screens and make your vent with a large surface area so that the hot gasses aren't accelerated on exit. Don't forget ports for your charger!

I'd also have a way to dump water into it somehow if you can. Not really necessary, but @Ginger On Wheels has a firesak video where the fire kept going for an hour? Maybe 2.

Be sure to include a smoke detector!

And maybe a hook so the fire brigade can hook it and drag it outside. My guess is that if they can they'll haul it outside and then they'll want to fill it with water as much as possible (which would be pretty easy if you had large openings covered by fireplace screen!)

Edited June 26, 2022 by Tawpie

[Funky]

48 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Looks good!

Take a look at fireplace screens and make your vent with a large surface area so that the hot gasses aren't accelerated on exit. Don't forget ports for your charger!

I'd also have a way to dump water into it somehow if you can. Not really necessary, but @Ginger On Wheels has a firesak video where the fire kept going for an hour? Maybe 2.

Be sure to include a smoke detector!

And maybe a hook so the fire brigade can hook it and drag it outside. My guess is that if they can they'll haul it outside and then they'll want to fill it with water as much as possible (which would be pretty easy if you had large openings covered by fireplace screen!)

When i charge it, i'm normally sitting next to it. So can simply open the door. Or make a small rubber grommet hole for wire to go true. Don't know how easy would it be to "drag" this thing out.  euc+box whole weight will be around ~60kg (~132lbs) I could install those heavy duty wheels (wheels with brakes) under the box, instead of bricks. It will still sit away from floor, but could easily be rolled - if need be.

As for filling it with water they can simply "kick" it over and fill with water true air vents if need be? Yeah i was thinking drilling holes like "fireplace screen" in that said plate.

That's why i said. I will have 2 plates with holes going "zig-zag" so air/lames need to travel up and then down and then out of box. (Original plan was making whole door like that.) Half of a door i think will be plenty..

The door and next plate sits 1-2cm further inside of the box.(Making air pocket) Door holes and plate holes don't go straight out of box(Plate hole upwards - door hole downwards) - air/flames need to travel ~2cm one way or other way.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Funky

[Tawpie]

Since you're venting a relatively long way from the actual batteries, I don't know that you need a zig zag (opinion!!!). When a cell explodes, it puts a very large volume of gases out all at once (firesak videos), a large opening will help keep the exit velocity down. There's a battery fire compilation I saw where venting (but not yet on fire) cells put out a cloud of vapor that hung to the ground and eventually ignited. If that's what happens (and I think it's exactly what happens), you've got a fuel-air thing going on (thermobaric) and you definitely want a large unimpeded exhaust vent. It might belch flame during ignition, but no amount of zigging and zagging is going to stop that.

[Funky]

I also had an idea about euc stand that would be on "hinges" it would go in box and come out of box. Check image what i mean.. (Red - hinges on springs)

But i can't seem to find any hinges like those that come outwards 180 degree.. Anyone have a idea what are they called? (That way i can install "drive on" stand - no need to lift the euc..)

Something like these in video.  

 

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Funky

[Paul A]

Maybe include a fireball in the container.  They are self activating.  

 

Elide Fire Ball (Genuine) VS AFO Ball (A copy)

420K views · 9 years ago

 

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

Maybe include a fireball in the container.  They are self activating.  

 

Elide Fire Ball (Genuine) VS AFO Ball (A copy)

420K views · 9 years ago

 

Yeah, but you really think it will work on battery fire? - Sure it may stop the flames (the batteries that have already "fired" off..)

But as next battery starts to burn - it ignites again.. Meaning it's completely useless.

Now if i placed 2/3 around the "box" in close proximity - it may work.