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Safe EUC Storage


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Does everybody keep their EUCs in their houses?  I have seen a video of an electric scooter bursting into flames inside a guy's house in China:

 

Even if the flames don't spread and burn the building, there will be a lot of extremely dirty and poisonous smoke coming out of these things.  Does anybody take measures to keep these vehicles outside the house for storage/charging?  

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I recently completed an outdoor storage project to avoid having that happen inside my house. True, my plastic storage shed is not at all fireproof and will definitely catch fire and help catch other things on fire BUT. It will give me a little time to get everyone to a safe distance and for the fire professionals to arrive.

 

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I do keep it in my house and boy am I uncomfortable about that fact! 

 

You're wise to be worried about this. Right now I keep them in a tile entryway with a (Class D!) fire extinguisher (which may not even be enough in an emergency!) by my front door, and I put another fire alarm in the area. I'm not confident any of those precautions will help much for a lithium fire. 

 

My ambition is to build an outdoor storage box for the wheels, but space limitations plus the fact that I live in an area with frigid winters means it's a complex undertaking. This is an oft-discussed topic on the forum. I just posted a different awful scooter fire the other day in the Fire History thread (Check it out!)

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Get something like "metal enclosure box" Won't protect from smoke, but at least wont burn down your apartment/house. Place the box on some stone bricks so when it starts burning the heat doesn't catch the ground on fire. Also don't press it against the wall, leave some space. Or better you could put inside/behind "Rockwool" That material doesn't catch fire at all. Doh you will need a hole in box so HOT air/pressure can escape the box. If not it can blow up like a big bomb.. Also that hole must be placed on side where when flames/air come out don't burn something else.

I think that would work great against 10-30min fire.. No?

raspred-box.jpg.8d457cb7de52ab169f6995f8caf0da8e.jpg

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I'm looking into climate control for my shed.  I actually don't expect the fire to do catastrophic damage to my place, but I don't want my family to breath toxic fumes, even in small amounts.  Not sure what the cost will be...might go with your idea of a metal container inside the shed and climate control that instead.

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1 hour ago, Richardo said:

a (Class D!) fire extinguisher (which may not even be enough in an emergency!)

wow! The proper one. Beasties are heavy, right?

41 minutes ago, Funky said:

you could put inside/behind "Rockwool"

I've thought about adding Rockwool insulation but recently came across this stuff which looks great, but I can't seem to find a retailer https://www.owenscorning.com/en-us/insulation/foamglas

4 minutes ago, ken-ny said:

might go with your idea of a metal container inside the shed and climate control that instead.

I used gun safe heaters (25USD each), low wattage, no flame, barely warm to the touch. To control the heaters I added a humistat and a thermostat (Inkbird) intended for mushroom growers and reptile owners. We'll see what happens this summer, I might need to add a proper dehumidifier but in general it doesn't get hot and sweaty around here so I can probably skate on that. My biggest fear is condensation because that happens inside of things.

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You want fireproof and theft proof? Here you go!

It's fire-proof from the outside in; should be from the inside out as well!

CA594024-90-H1FDC-17-OPEN-Full_1024x1024

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I actually just spoke to my city's fire prevention Breau and it sounds like I kind of wasted my money. 

 

A Class D extinguisher is just a way to dump salt on something, and you basically need to completely encase it in salt. Thats why they're so heavy, and you need a huge one to cover an EUC.

They recommended I keep an ABC extinguisher on hand to prevent the spread of the fire, and buy a couple bags of de-icing salt to dump on the device itself if I wanted. Then we started talking about ways to keep PEVs outside the house, in a temperature controlled environment, as the 'real' solution. 

 

But anyway it's cool to know (most?) cities have a number you can call to bullshit with a fire prevention expert. He started talking about how the city has not yet had an indoor electric car fire, and that's a new challenge they're trying to figure out. Then he brought up how often hoverboards were catching on fire a couple years ago. It was a good call.

Edited by Richardo
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23 minutes ago, UniBlab said:

You want fireproof and theft proof? Here you go!

It's fire-proof from the outside in; should be from the inside out as well!

CA594024-90-H1FDC-17-OPEN-Full_1024x1024

And cost 2x-4x of euc. Most of us want the cheapest possible way to stop fire spreading. Not spending thousands of $$$ for a box. :D 

Edited by Funky
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1 minute ago, Funky said:

And cost 2x-4x of euc. Most of us want the cheapest possible way to stop fire spreading. Not spending thousands of $$$ for a box. :D 

I definitely wanted something cheaper than a $500 USD class D extinguisher (which is undersized) but it only takes a few moments of rumination for me to start panicking about how my hobby could kill my family... 💀

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12 minutes ago, Richardo said:

 

I definitely wanted something cheaper than a $500 USD class D extinguisher (which is undersized) but it only takes a few moments of rumination for me to start panicking about how my hobby could kill my family... 💀

As i keep the euc next to me bed, i would 99% hear the batteries start pooping or fire alarm going off smoke.. My biggest fear is uncontrolled fire. Smoke/black ceilings can be dealt over time. Fire will burn everything. Heck to open window in my small room it takes 2 secs.. Before running out of so said small room closing doors behind and let euc simply stop burning. (If it was in "special fire prof" box..)

Edited by Funky
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15 minutes ago, Funky said:

And cost 2x-4x of euc. Most of us want the cheapest possible way to stop fire spreading. Not spending thousands of $$$ for a box. :D 

Wow! Didn't know they were that expensive.

Found this as an example -

 

https://www.homedepot.com/p/STACK-ON-40-Gun-Fire-Waterproof-Safe-with-Electronic-Lock-and-Door-Storage-TD18-40-GP-E-S/312907773

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Might be better to not have EUC near the front door, as it could be blocking the escape route.

Maybe better to have it near a window, where the EUC can be quickly thrown outside.

 

If using a deck box for outdoor/indoor storage, could perhaps remove the internal shelf.

Replace shelf with wooden slats.

Purchase bags of cheap 48lb sand from hardware store.

Place bags of sand on wooden slats that are over the EUC.

If fire eventuates, the bags of sand will burn through,  dumping sand onto and smother fire.

If the EUC is within a small enough contained volume of space, and enough sand is in place, the EUC could be totally encased and the fire smothered.

 

https://www.homedepot.com/p/0-5-cu-ft-Paver-Sand-98000/100343385

$6.28 bag

landscape-accessories-98000-64_1000.jpg

 

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16 minutes ago, UniBlab said:

That box that i linked (800cm x 600cm x 300cm size) before cost alone 300$ And even then i think it's expensive.. Add rockwool, etc.. make it 400$ for "fire safe" box.

Safes are to expensive because it's SAFE... You don't need that for fire protection. You would be better of buying a specially made cabinet for "flammable liquids" (Cost 1000-1500$ also to expensive in my mind..)

Edited by Funky
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Thin metal box might fail.

Heat and pressure of expanding gases might distort the panels.

Hinges could fail, clasps might fail, as the shape of the box changes/contorts.

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3 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Thin metal box might fail.

Heat and pressure of expanding gases might distort the panels.

Hinges could fail, clasps might fail, as the shape of the box changes/contorts.

That's why i was talking about insulating inside with "rockwool" or other kind of material that doesn't burn and let heat true. And for gases i mentioned a hole made specially for it. :) 

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My collection of 4 euc's, a ninebot, a motorcycle, a 'plane' and a scooter, all get stored/charged/parked next to each other. I feel safe because its just below a hardwood floor where I sleep. To make sure its even MORE safe, I make sure to store my gas cans and propane tanks within a few feet as well. The wooden cabinet where I store paints and chems is about 4' away. I should charge my wheels  in carboard boxes too, just to be sure. Only thing safer, would be to simply store it at my neighbors house. Of course, it would need be the guy down the holler and across the road. You know, so the flames cant get over here before the volunteer fire Dept shows up with a cooler of beers to watch it.:popcorn:

fwiw, I asked my insurance company. Even with minimal coverage I have, it does cover fires due to owner stupidity and neglect..... Yeah, so NOW my habits begin to make more sense eh?:whistling:

I'd suspect for those that want to minimize a fire. Staying low and waiting for the initial burst to happen, then focusing on keeping other things from catching fire, would be prudent. Smoke inhalation is definitely a worry, but I'm not sure if simply running away to watch an apartment burn down, is the solution. Its your fire, makes sense it should be YOU who risks the most to contain it.

A simple fire retardant bag with pressure release sounds like a solution. There are already products being developed to work for this. As with anything, you can't cry about price and expect quality...

'smothering' a fire that supplies itself with fuel and oxygen, is usually a futile effort. Only way to STOP the fire, is to drop the core temperature. Since they burn from the inside out, yeah, good luck with that. Watch some vids of how well it works when a fireman sprays a wheel thats burning. Even dry chem extinguishers don't 'smother' or work. Once a lithium fire begins, efforts should be used to prevent spread, rather than wasted on futile attempts to put out the lithium. Once the fuel is all spent, THEN the fire goes out.

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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Something adapted to contain the worst of the fire when it is being removed from the building, could be wheeled out into the open (this will not suit all scenarios, I know, but we all have to adapt according to our circumstances):

 Perhaps ceramic tiles, welding cloth or similar fireproofing on the floor of the box, rock wool or similar lined, etc.  In my own ‘case’ I’d like wheels so it could be moved into the open before the intensity of smoke/heat/fire got too much, thinking of a simple T shaped pull handle attached to one of the side handles, etc. A smoke alarm or other early warning system of some sort would be great too. Lifting out and putting back into the box might be inconvenient, but would be preferable to the alternative. Might be possible to adapt a box of the right dimensions so that it opens with the door vertical, rather than on top, shouldn’t be so hard to make a ramp high enough to allow access and for a wheeled dolly to sit beneath the box?

What price do we put on peace of mind?

Edited by Freeforester
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2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

They usually use powered powdered copper and that's a) why they're so expensive and b) why they actually work on a lithium fire (which includes Li Ion). How they work is that they cool the fire because the powered powdered copper melts and that takes big time energy away from the fire, and the melted metal sticks to vertical surfaces so it doesn't fall off.

Thats pretty neat about the copper. I would assume its not in standard 'dry chem' extinguishers? It would figure it one of the more expensive materials. I bet the diamond industry is pissed that THEY couldnt be the one's.... ha

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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I keep mine in a fully steel cabinet in my garage. I have a hole for venting. Steel melts at 2000f, lithium batteries burn at 1500f for short intervals, and lower heat for some time. Smoke will be a problem, but the house should have a chance. 

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So all in all one must have a fire extinguisher, flamesac and a decent mask so you are able to open window, get your family out and stay with euc and prevent fire from spreading if it does.

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