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Ninebot Z10 suddenly stopped responding but lights on permanently


DrAdam1986

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So i bought it second hand last year with 110km on it. Then I did a few km last year and then I put it in my shed for a year (cold winter down to -1C). Took it out a few days ago went out battery still had 15km in. Went out and when I still had 8km on the app it started complaining that battery is low. I will had battery to push home.

Charged it to 100% next morning took it to work. Arrived with no problems. 13h later after a hard shift i found it with lights on but not working. Pushing the power button didn't do anything. The battery icon next to it shows as empty battery and the Bluetooth blinking. When I try to connect to the app it stabilizes but never connects on the app. Also the led lights underneath are on blue and red for many minutes and then turn off for many minutes then back on. This goes on for 3 days now. I have put it on power show that battery is charging and the led on the charger is red when I do that. Tried long hold of the power button over 5' and nothing. Just lights on, LEDs on but no other response.

Do you have any ideas as to what is the problem or how I could fix it?

Please keep in mind I'm a noob in this but keen to open it up if need be. Any ideas welcome as I'm a bit desperate.

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Wow, there’s a lot to unpack there…
First, welcome to the forum !

Second, leaving a Li-ion device in a shed for a year and expecting it to be fine is a bit of a stretch.

In the words of Dr. McCoy, “ He’s dead Jim”.

Someone with more tech experience than me may be along shortly…

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Hahah thank you for your reply! I do understand that but I thought that if that were the case it would not work prior to the last charging nor after it. 

 

Do you know of any good (and detailed for noobs) method to diagnose the problem?

 

Kind regards!

Edited by DrAdam1986
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Me ? I just keep fiddling with  boobies,…er devices ‘til they work, or I give up.

 Will it power off completely ? 
You may have to do a lot of reading, find “Z10 tear down” vid, etc… depending on how much you want to get into it.

It can be an exercise in frustration ultimately, or a very rewarding learning experience. Or both.

Or, you could send it to a repair shop.

Best,

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That is very true... Had a similar issue with a Xiaomi scooter. Replaced everything still didn't work. Eventually decided to send it to a shop.

 

I'm just trying to avoid paying a s@£##load of money if it's something like "replace the heat conduction paste".

It doesn't go off no. It's on for 3-4 days now. And given the fact that it was just charged to 100% before I used it last time for 3km or less, it's not gonna go off for ages.

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4 hours ago, OldFartRides said:

Second, leaving a Li-ion device in a shed for a year and expecting it to be fine is a bit of a stretch.

And why would it not be fine? People have left their euc in storage for 2 years and still works. (You just have to check the voltage time to time.. So it don't "die")

Okey if temperature where under 0c then yeah batteries can die. Or so i have heard..

Also there's been mentioned about "vampire drain" on ninebot z10. So yeah after some time the batteries also could die.

@DrAdam1986 Did you ride the euc after that "year" in storage? Without charging it before?

When it showed those "15km" in app? App could show that wrong.. Most people check Voltage because it shows "real" battery level and what not.

If the euc really had the vampire drain problem your batteries (or some cells) could be dead already. Riding before charging could made the problem even "bigger" By emptying already low cells to extreme empty.. So yeah batteries could be dead in this case.

Did i read it right? The euc is on 3 days and doesn't turn off? Or what? So it works now? It just doesn't turn off?

Did you try restarting the phone if you have problems with app..? Closing all blue/wifi etc..

Edited by Funky
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1 hour ago, Funky said:

Okey if temperature where under 0c then yeah batteries can die. Or so i have heard..

Afaik li ion are not to be used below freezing - for storage they have quite some range.

Heat should give them mor headache.

@DrAdam1986 - apps can still connect to the wheel? Then wheellog or euc world fir android could show detailed battery status.

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Thanks everyone! Let me try and clarify.

After that year in the storage, I took it out and did 2km without charging it. The app was showing 15km left at the time just prior to using it. After those 2km it started tilting back and beeping showing that now it had 8km left but obviously that was not real since the wheel was complaining already. After that it still had juice to push it back home for 2km (not me on it).

 

Then I charged it to 100% overnight over 12h and next day I took it out for another ride 4km. Came back home no problems. Next day I went to work 2km away and turned it off, kept it under my desk. Had a shift of 13h and when I went to take it back it was on on its own (while I had left it turned off)  in the following status:

- led battery on but showing empty battery (all bars off)

- led light for bluetooth blinking as if trying to connect. When I turn the app on on my phone the phone finds the wheel but when I try to connect it the led light for the Bluetooth on the wheel becomes steady on but the app fails to connect with the wheel

- the led lights on the sides of the wheel were on, some of them red (close to the top) most of them blue (close to the bottom). Every few minutes they turn off and every few minutes they turn on. 

- as for the wheel itself it does not do anything. Doesn't try to balance up or anything. Just no motor response.

This is ongoing for 3 days. Power button does nothing anymore. Doesn't matter if I hold it down for seconds or minutes or just short press it, the wheel does nothing in response. Just keeps the lights on as described above no matter what I do.

When I put it to charge, the battery icon shows it is charging, filling up the bars, and the led light on the charger is red. 

 

I hope this helps a bit more with the diagnosis. 

My first idea was to kind of hard reboot it or reset it , kind of how we do a long press hard reboot on a PC. But couldn't find any instructions for that so far. So I'm trying to gather some information before I attempt to open it.

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28 minutes ago, DrAdam1986 said:

Thanks everyone! Let me try and clarify.

After that year in the storage, I took it out and did 2km without charging it. The app was showing 15km left at the time just prior to using it. After those 2km it started tilting back and beeping showing that now it had 8km left but obviously that was not real since the wheel was complaining already. After that it still had juice to push it back home for 2km (not me on it).

 

Then I charged it to 100% overnight over 12h and next day I took it out for another ride 4km. Came back home no problems. Next day I went to work 2km away and turned it off, kept it under my desk. Had a shift of 13h and when I went to take it back it was on on its own (while I had left it turned off)  in the following status:

- led battery on but showing empty battery (all bars off)

- led light for bluetooth blinking as if trying to connect. When I turn the app on on my phone the phone finds the wheel but when I try to connect it the led light for the Bluetooth on the wheel becomes steady on but the app fails to connect with the wheel

- the led lights on the sides of the wheel were on, some of them red (close to the top) most of them blue (close to the bottom). Every few minutes they turn off and every few minutes they turn on. 

- as for the wheel itself it does not do anything. Doesn't try to balance up or anything. Just no motor response.

This is ongoing for 3 days. Power button does nothing anymore. Doesn't matter if I hold it down for seconds or minutes or just short press it, the wheel does nothing in response. Just keeps the lights on as described above no matter what I do.

When I put it to charge, the battery icon shows it is charging, filling up the bars, and the led light on the charger is red. 

 

I hope this helps a bit more with the diagnosis. 

My first idea was to kind of hard reboot it or reset it , kind of how we do a long press hard reboot on a PC. But couldn't find any instructions for that so far. So I'm trying to gather some information before I attempt to open it.

- led battery on but showing empty battery (all bars off)  < Could be some kind of warning "showing" something is wrong with battery?

If you aren't scared of opening the wheel.. You could disconnect the batteries. Then press power button to drain all power left in "caps". Then reconnect back the batteries, try to power up the wheel.

Try spinning (as fast you can) wheel and press/hold power button? Maybe something happens? xD

I would turn the euc in a shop for a "specialist" to take a look. Ofc if you got one near.. (Not worth risking a fire from broken battery)

Yeah.. You did a ride on empty wheel. (15km on app means nothing..) More worse some of the battery "cells" would be more empty than others. Meaning you killed those few "cells". <<< My bet.

By charging again them to 100% and riding, the batteries gave their last breath. :(  Lucky it didn't stop working while you where riding.

Edited by Funky
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3 minutes ago, Funky said:

- led battery on but showing empty battery (all bars off)  < Could be some kind of warning "showing" something is wrong with battery?

If you aren't scared of opening the wheel.. You could disconnect the batteries. Then press power button to drain all power left in "caps". Then reconnect back the batteries, try to power up the wheel.

I would turn the euc in a shop for a "specialist" to take a look. Ofc if you got one near.. (Not worth risking a fire from broken battery)

Yeah.. You did a ride on empty wheel. (15km on app means nothing..) More worse some of the battery "cells" would be more empty than others. Meaning you killed those few "cells". <<< My bet.

By charging again them to 100% and riding, the batteries gave their last breath. :(  Lucky it didn't stop working while you where riding.

Thanks for your input my friend. I might turn it in a shop. I'll see. I just don't want to make it worse.

 

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So, update. 

I opened the wheel today. Measured both batteries and they are 54V. 2x led lights blinking blue (I understand this means healthy batteries).

 

Opened the electronics part And found this:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/dRhzUDWjusuiH5Me7

 

 

So 2 red led lights blinking and one red steadily on , on what I believe is the controller.

To show you what the top led screen has been showing I uploaded this:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qmE99hzgz3ErPbpA8

Lifted the controller. I can't see any obviously burnt connections or anything:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/EYutHewshgwgiqKL8

So, I disconnected the batteries as suggested. Put them back on. Problem persists. Also checked all the connectors. All good.

 

Any further ideas?

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Ok guys I think I found the problem.

 

On inspection of the (what I think is called the controller) I found something burnt.

Look here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/2fAv6XDYH5RPvhVN8

 

So, any advice? I'm guessing i need to replace that board. Is it indeed called controller? Also any ideas as to why it might have burnt out?

 

 

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20 minutes ago, DrAdam1986 said:

Ok guys I think I found the problem.

 

On inspection of the (what I think is called the controller) I found something burnt.

Look here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/2fAv6XDYH5RPvhVN8

 

So, any advice? I'm guessing i need to replace that board. Is it indeed called controller? Also any ideas as to why it might have burnt out?

 

 

Unfortunately, the main board is damaged due to the overvoltage. You should replace main board (in this case control board) and for just in case also the motor controller board (in this case MOS aluminum substrate) as we don´t know what caused it. It would be necessary to examine it more closely to find the cause of the problem, but it is very difficult to do it remotely.

Here are some useful links for new boards:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32962690763.html

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274449722481

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Thanks so much! Do you really think I need to replace the aluminium substrate too? That is another 80£...

 

I have already bought the controller but will come by mid April...

 

So I'll update you then!

 

Thank you so much for your prompt support guys! I'm new to this forum but you have all been super nice so far!

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I understand. I did the same (replace parts for that other Xiaomi scooter I mentioned previously) and got nowhere and now I am a bit reluctant to preemptively change parts. But worst case scenario this happens again and I need to replace them both again. Ill risk it and see what happens.

 

 

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Ah, I see that now…well, it’s hard to say what blew the chip. Me, I knew I blew the chip on my KS 16s. I set it down when it spun up due to a dicky lift switch. I identified the chip, ordered just that chip, was going to try replacing it, but I  didn’t feel confident I could do fine surface mount soldering. A fellow from the forum who had a friend who dabbled in boarded repair, roped him into doing it for me. Still don’t know if that fixed it cause I threw a new board on the wheel, and haven’t bothered to switch them out to see. DOH !

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  • 4 weeks later...

YouHi again to everyone guys!

 

I just received the board today. To my complete frustration, after I placed it in I noticed that the top battery screen does nothing after I press the button up turn it on.

For this last 3-4 weeks, while I was waiting for the board to come, I had removed the old burnt controller and left it in run temperature. Not on charge (Batteries were full back then if you remember).

 

I put it on charge, the charger blinks red and fast. I opened the battery side and saw that the battery led lights were red constantly.

 

When I disconnected the yellow power cables battery A led became blue and voltage was 52V.

Battery B remained red and Voltage was 4.5V.

 

On further trials after disconnecting and reconnecting to power etc, battery B came to life with blue led light and voltage to 52V as well. 

 

Both batteries' LEDs become constant red when reconnected to the yellow cables.

In the meantime, both controller boards old and new do the same thing when I put Z10 on charge, which is 2-3 red lights blink in different frequencies on them with no sound. A month ago if you check my initial story the old (burnt) controller's behaviour was different.

 

So batteries work. New board seems ok.

Charger blinks fast red when on. Top screen does nothing if batteries are attached but shows normal charging when they are both disconnected.

 

What is the problem?... The aluminium board underneath looks ok. Nothing burnt in it.

 

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