Outdoor storage

[novazeus]

i'm real happy with my keter outside storage max box. walmart at $195 is the cheapest i could find. 

it's shaded a bit by the oak trees so heat or cold here shouldn't be a problem. actually, my fears of excessive humidity doesn't seem to be a problem either. the box was actually designed very cleaverly with the venting at the hinge and water and humidity seems to not enter. if it was gonna rain for days, i'd probably garbage bag the wheels and toss in my rechargeble dessicant pouches.

i love it. plus keeping my assortment of protective gear out there and a bench, i can decide how much i wanna gear up for my practice. 

last night i charged both wheels inside with me because i'm offgrid and i have to use a generator and i hate to waste any extra energy thrown off by the generator.

at least there's not much humidity in texas. or so my hair says.

[Mango]

On 1/20/2023 at 10:30 PM, Mango said:

Here's mine.

Duramax steel shed 5'x3' from Home Depot. Just finished assembly and foundation.

Here's my completed euc outdoor storage, as an update on my earlier post.

Finished installing reflectix insulation with a 1" airgap (some 1" wood framing around the walls needed as support). Added weatherstripping as these Duramax sheds aren't very airtight. The 2" stone pavers really finished off the project. Each one 16"x24" weighs about 60 lbs, so the shed isn't going anywhere under high winds.

For temperature and condensation control, I added two heaters. One heater has a thermostat that comes on if the temp drops below 5°c and turns off at 10°c. Another heater is timed to turn on between 4am - 8am with a 10% duty cycle.

Simple wire metal rack added for the chargers and misc items.

Shed can fit 4 EUCs comfortably. 5 possible.

In CAN prices, Duramax shed $600, wood frame foundation $80, insulation and weatherstripping $120, stone pavers $70, heaters and electrical $220, rack $20, misc $30. About $1140 total.

Having used to for a week already. Overall I spent more than I was expecting, but the price for my peace of mind is priceless.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Mango

[Paul A]

7 minutes ago, Mango said:

peace of mind

 

Explosive force of a lithium battery fire may be very powerful.

Video posted by member Novazeus on the Video thread.

_______________________________________

Officials sound alarm over rise of lithium-ion battery fires

TODAY

3.77M subscribers

Feb 8, 2023

 

Officials are warning about the dangers posed by lithium-ion batteries after a rise in fires. The batteries are commonly found in phones, bikes and electric cars. NBC’s Vicky Nguyen reports on what you need to know to use them safely.

 

 

 

[Funky]

35 minutes ago, Mango said:

Here's my completed euc outdoor storage, as an update on my earlier post.

Finished installing reflectix insulation with a 1" airgap (some 1" wood framing around the walls needed as support). Added weatherstripping as these Duramax sheds aren't very airtight. The 2" stone pavers really finished off the project. Each one 16"x24" weighs about 60 lbs, so the shed isn't going anywhere under high winds.

For temperature and condensation control, I added two heaters. One heater has a thermostat that comes on if the temp drops below 5°c and turns off at 10°c. Another heater is timed to turn on between 4am - 8am with a 10% duty cycle.

Simple wire metal rack added for the chargers and misc items.

Shed can fit 4 EUCs comfortably. 5 possible.

In CAN prices, Duramax shed $600, wood frame foundation $80, insulation and weatherstripping $120, stone pavers $70, heaters and electrical $220, rack $20, misc $30. About $1140 total.

Having used to for a week already. Overall I spent more than I was expecting, but the price for my peace of mind is priceless.

Battery fire alone will "fling" the doors open. Or may even blow up the box itself.  (The gas when it lights up.)

IDK if the 1" air gap is enough. Looks sweet doh.

(I at least tested my "Hot Box" - by filling it full of gas and lighting it up.) All small air holes combined and made my doors look like big rocket for ~4 seconds.

 

We both used the same blocks.  Doh mine where 12"x12"x2.35"

Edited February 10, 2023 by Funky

[Mango]

I hope never to find out. 

Mainly, I just need my EUCs out of my apartment suite and storage locker, and kept outdoors where they are also protected from the elements.

The fire I can fight, it's the smoke I worry about.

[novazeus]

coincidentally, i'm talking to one of the biggest apt developers now, and he's from california and knew what electric unicycles are, he has an electric bike. 

so i warned him about the potential fire hazard of his bike and asked him how apt owners are gonna deal with all these new li-on pev's and vehicles. 

his condo has a two hour fire rated room he stores his bike in, and he says the apts he builds have outside storage for bikes, but i don't think he is aware of how bad a fire it can be. 

my place next to the outlet mall, costco, and 25 restaurants and bars is perfect for pevs if they don't burn down these 4 story stick built apts.

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

I hope never to find out. 

Mainly, I just need my EUCs out of my apartment suite and storage locker, and kept outdoors where they are also protected from the elements.

The fire I can fight, it's the smoke I worry about.

Each their own.  I'm more scared from fire. Than some toxic smoke.

Because my "exit plan" is opening window and running quickly out of my room, closing doors behind. Calling fire fighters - if someone is home that moment.. If not - again fire needs to be contained, if noone is around to call the firefighters.

You won't be fighting the fire, with the smoke around anyways. (Ofc if you got a gas mask - then go ahead.)  

Edited February 10, 2023 by Funky

[Mango]

Everybody has a plan until they're punched in the face - Mike Tyson

"Most people who die in house fires are killed by the smoke, not the fire"

https://www.nationwidechildrens.org/research/areas-of-research/center-for-injury-research-and-policy/injury-topics/burns/home-fire-safety

Main concern is not having my suite and any of my possessions destroyed by smoke and flames.

[novazeus]

so my apt developer just answered me:

“Sorry took me a while to get back to you. Typically we will have bike storage rooms in our remote garage buildings that are detached from the apartment buildings. If the bike room is in a precast garage that is attached to the building then we have a bike room which is 4 hour rated sprinkled. our lease prohibits the resident from storing their bicycles in the apartment building.”

[Paul A]

3 hours ago, novazeus said:

two hour fire rated room

Would this be walls of concrete panels?  With venting?

[Paul A]

4 hours ago, Mango said:

The fire I can fight,

How?

A fire extinguisher might not have much effect.

Might be a futile and pointless attempt.

 

Is the building covered with flammable cladding.....like the Grenfell Towers of London?

[Mango]

LOL! Why am I being argued with?

You want me to keep EUCs inside my suite? Get rid of wheels altogether?

[novazeus]

2 hours ago, Paul A said:

Would this be walls of concrete panels?  With venting?

idk. but he also said teslas and other electric vehicles get the same treatment. 

either in detached garage or fire sprinkler parking garage. 

they build all over but california based so they are probably ahead of the curve. 

[Funky]

18 minutes ago, Mango said:

Get rid of wheels altogether?

That's an option?  

[Tawpie]

10 minutes ago, Funky said:

That's an option?  

It is not. Most assuredly so.

[novazeus]

if u have a house with a decent size backyard, i'd just get a $200 plastic box like i did, and put it in the middle of ur backyard. 

my box is far enough away from other flammable stuff like trees, if they catch fire, they'll just leave a hole in the pavement. i wasn't that concerned when i had them inside, but the convenience of having them stored on my road, plus i do sleep slightly better knowing they can't hurt me or Bob. course i still have a 2200wh powercell inside with me. hopefully bluetti isn't having problems.

i still charge inside. 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

3 hours ago, Paul A said:

Would this be walls of concrete panels?  With venting?

2 hour fire rating is double 5/8" fire code sheet rock. It uses a glass mat in between the layers which makes it different than regular 5/8 sheet rock.

[Paul A]

Maybe have latch(es) that will break easily in the event of an explosion.

To provide fast and maximum venting asap.

Might be preferable to large steel panels of shrapnel ejected onto people below.

Akin to safety glass that shatters into small particles, rather than deadly, large, sharp shards.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Paul A

[Mango]

There are ventilation holes on both sides with this particular shed (Duramax).

I covered them up with reflectix but made a razor cut in the insulation at the vent holes so in the event of a catastrophic high temperature over pressure situation, the slits will blow out and help mitigate the pressure.

Obviously this is the plan, but with no real world testing... 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Funky]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

There are ventilation holes on both sides with this particular shed (Duramax).

I covered them up with reflectix but made a razor cut in the insulation at the vent holes so in the event of a catastrophic high temperature over pressure situation, the slits will blow out and help mitigate the pressure.

Obviously this is the plan, but with no real world testing... 🤷🏻‍♂️

All i can say, my door corners got fling open for about 2 seconds. (From the pressure.) Before going back into original position. (I got a bolt middle of door holding them shut. -Naturally corners would bend from pressure.)

And i got over 250 air holes each about 10mm in diameter made. And the volume for the gas was about 30x60x70 Cm. (That's ~2.5 holes for each battery cell i got in my wheel.)

Bigger box - bigger gas volume - bigger explosion/pressure. Duh.. (And my "box" are made from 3mm thick sheet metal - walls are welded together.)

 

Here's the real question - how well is the shed built? Can't the roof and walls be "blown" off from the pressure?

If my box door corners got fling open, i can only imagine what kind of pressure where in the box.. -Because i tried to open door corners same amount with hands - I could not open/bend that much.. (It was well over 50kg lifting force.. Because i could not pull the door corners open that "much".) I could imagine your shed roof flying off if it had 50kg+ lifting force.  (Ofc if it isn't fastened strongly and so on..)

 

That's what i figure from my own real world "test". The pressure is insane inside.. Doh that problem is only if battery has been "smoking", venting the gas out. And suddenly it catches fire. If fire starts first - then you don't have that much of a pressure risk.. Because any gas that would come out battery would ignite right away.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Funky

[Paul A]

The video of the scooter fire showed a much larger room.

The explosive force blew out not only the glass, but the window frames as well.

 

The intensity of the heat and volume of blinding, toxic smoke also makes it lethal.

Seventeen seconds from initial smoke to explosion.

Scooter and EUC battery size presumably fairly similar.

 

Would a much smaller DIY box, with venting, be able to withstand an explosion?  Seems possible the weak points for failure would be the panel joins.

 

Metal sheets ejected onto street below is a possibility.

Breaking of balcony sliding door glass, with fire penetration into apartment is a possibility.

 

The S22 fire video showed the ferocity when path of flames are directed.

 

Still, seems better outside than inside.

[Paul A]

One alternative option might be:

 

Simply use a waterproof back pack cover.  

Place wheel on stand, and cover.  

 

In the event of fire/explosion, there is no impedance to venting, no possibility of sheet metal shrapnel.

 

Less likelihood of high winds lifting a partially enclosed box over the balcony.

[novazeus]

 

the safest outdoor storage would be building a bar-b-que with chimney in ur backyard, and that way u have dual purpose. big 12x17 flue pipe and masonry with 1/4" steel doors should handle a wheel fire.

the good news is, we all know about the dangers of wheels, but the public is just now taking note, as evidenced by my talk with hopefully my apt developer. 

so, i know my guy with his electric bike will figure it out with my help. extra revenue. $50 a month for a wheel garage. 

my location is absolutely perfect for pev's being able to choose from so much food/entertainment next door and can be all accessed without getting near cagers. all can be travelled to by multiuse paths. i don't want to see them get banned from restaurants/stores etc. but parking outside on bikestands will probably be required.

we need to be on our best behavior and not get banned like skateboarders. goes for manufacturers as well. 

all of this is built on the north part of my ranch, just the other side of the creek. just need a bridge and a road, and Bob might be able to trot alongside.

but i think of the savings the apt renters will have by ditching one car in their family. that will go a long way in reducing congestion/pollution.

https://www.cctctampa.com/directory

 

[novazeus]

i've owned a construction/hvac company and i've worked on and installed all kinds of hvac systems in florida, so i know about conditioned air. 

this is my concern with our li-on powered devices. to meet all the requirements of the manufacturers, u need to build a fireproof, conditioned air enclosure away from where u live, and florida is very climatically mercurial.

this is a video i just shot at almost 10am. i'm gonna leave my temperature humidity gauge in my outside storage to record the readings. water is one thing i can avoid, but without hvac, i can't keep moist air away from the wheels and that condesation could permeate the battery packs. wrapping the wheels with garbage bags and tossing in rechargeable desiccant  packs will help with moisture, but i still have the summer heat.

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by novazeus

[novazeus]

keter #2 ready for action. weather says feels like 84 now. i must have a fever, because it feels like 94 to me in the shade.

i have some cheap little solar panels. i might have to engneer some prv's pulling in cooler air from somewhere lower on these boxes.