KS 14 Ultra Impressions

[Sweet M]

Ok, was tooooooo curious about a 14" wheel so had to get one!  And here are my thoughts..............

The Sleek Black 14" 840 wh unit arrived to my door just 5 days after ordering from ewheels.com via @Jason McNeil.  BTW, all the awesome comments re: Jason's customer service are "spot on"!  The unit arrived in perfect condition with ALL (Lights, BT, App connectivity, etc....) in great working order!  Used the ISN Code Generator, from here on our forum, to plug in my unit's ISN and receive my unlock code. 

Thanks to @fearedbliss and @esaj for their collaboration in making this program work and work quickly (actually, pretty instantaneously, unless you get technical with nanoseconds, etc...hahahahaha))

My APP settings are as follows: (the below settings, as my previous KS 18A review states, give me the least restrictive experience while not resetting the unit)

Level 1 Alarm = 0

Level 2 Alarm = 0

Level 3 Alarm = 30

Rocker Level = 30

Running Mode = Play Mode

I again tested multiple combinations and simply put......... the app may be capable of displaying higher values (31-60), however the performance of the wheel auto reverts to default settings with the alarms and rocker levels beeping/tilting as if the unit were never customized. Then when rechecking the app settings it shows those default values. 

Stability/Agility:   First let me state that the 14" Ultra is stable, solid, an amazingly designed EU, and a BIG SHOUT OUT to @Jason McNeil for securing these babies and providing us the opportunity to own one ourselves! 

Compared to my KS 18A, the 14" in this category is very different........ and the differences aren't bad or good just good or better, depending on your personal preferences. Stability/agility of a 14", by natural design, is less stable/more agile due simply to its smaller size.  Think of your driving experiences in a compact car (KS 14 Ultra) vs a larger vehicle or a truck (KS 18A). The Ultra is very stable at cruising speeds but feels a little less so the closer you push toward the Ultra's speed barrier (similar to in a small car, it feels as though you're traveling at a higher rate of speed on the 14" wheel vs the 18" even though your actual speed is no different).  Although I'm quite capable of moving my KS 18A almost as quickly and easily as I can my IPS T350+ 16" wheel, the control (agility) of the Ultra is , IMO, UNMATCHED!!!  Bumps or road imperfections are more noticeable, but the ability to "dodge" those and "negotiate" in/out of "traffic" is so easy compared to larger wheels.  And.... the ability to remain balanced on the unit while going slow is much more easily managed (an important factor when riding in a populated area).  

The Ultra's added available power/options, upgraded control, extra travel distance on a single charge, and reliability, make this EU VERY hard to beat in the 14" arena!

Speed: Was able to ride up to 20.5 mph per my Android DS Speedometer (mentioned in General Discussions Section).  However, that was max.  Can ride ~18 mph without warning beeps or tilt back continuously to include up hills.  Again.......this feels faster and a little more scary on the 14" wheel vs the 18" wheel.

Tilt (Rocker):  With the above stated settings, tilt back was only experienced at ~ 20 mph (but not aggressive).  The aggressiveness does, however, increase in direct proportion to increasing speed beyond 19 mph as it did with my KS 18A

Hill Climbing:  NOT A PROBLEM for this little dynamo!!!!!!!

Off road:  Has plenty of power for off road use, but not as easy to negotiate off road terrains when compared to the KS 18A.  Again, that's of NO FAULT to this EU, just a fact due to it's smaller size.

There was ONLY one issue (a very minor one at that) that I've already easily customized, and that has to do with the pedals. My other units all have some sort of padding or barrier at the folded up pedal/unit junction that keeps the pedals from "clanking" on the unit's shell.  This unit had no such thing and the "clanking" quickly annoyed me....... not only as I folded up the pedals but also while I was simply carrying it around.  I'm sure all the bright minds on this forum can dream up a "kazillion" fixes for this, but needless to say, my pedals are now "clankless"!

I've come to discover so many things about the EU from, not only my experiences, but mainly from those of you that continually contribute to our forum.  Thank you all for all you do to bring us valuable info on these AMAZING and GREEN modes of transportation!  

Keep learning, stay safe, and share it all!!!!!!!

[h00ktern]

That is an excellent review, and I couldn't have added or changed one thing (even including the "clanking, which I solved with self-adhesive rubber "buttons.") They make an excellent, two unit fleet, as you have described.

Thanks for posting it! (my 18" comparison is to a mSuper2 850w/hr)

Safe trips,

[edwin_rm]

It can't be just the wheel size that makes it more maneuverable. In my case, my SoloWheel Xtreme 18" is significantly more maneuverable than my GotWay MCM4 14". I can ride equally slow on both, but can actually make really sharp tight turns on the 18 that are not possible on the 14. Meaning, the GW 14 turns are wide, and the SW 18 turns are tight! Contrary to what one would think. I blame the shitty pedal height of the 14 for that. But good to read that the KS14 can turn nicely thou. 

[Cloud]

59 minutes ago, edwin_rm said:

It can't be just the wheel size that makes it more maneuverable. In my case, my SoloWheel Xtreme 18" is significantly more maneuverable than my GotWay MCM4 14". I can ride equally slow on both, but can actually make really sharp tight turns on the 18 that are not possible on the 14. Meaning, the GW 14 turns are wide, and the SW 18 turns are tight! Contrary to what one would think. I blame the shitty pedal height of the 14 for that. But good to read that the KS14 can turn nicely thou. 

I think when we say " more manouverable" due to smaller wheel size, tight turns are definitely very important but there is more to it. I believe the smaller wheel is in general more maneuverable because it is more agile, as it is usually lighter and smaller.  Also, you may be able to make tighter turns on the solowheel, but the bigger wheel will need more clearance space than the smaller wheel - so as to monaouver around pedestrians better without hitting them with the edge of the wheel. At very slow speed one will be able to make zero radius turns on either wheel, in which case, the smaller wheel will require less room due to its smaller radius,

To me, being more manouverable is to be able to turn tigher, faster, accelerate and brake faster, and require a narrow travel path in a crowded area.

But, admittely, i dont yet own an 18" wheel - hope to some day. So i may be talking through my behind right now  

[houseofjob]

ugh, not this debate again....

 

ma·neu·ver·a·ble

məˈno͞ovərəbəl/

adjective

 

(especially of a craft or vessel) able to be maneuvered easily while in motion.

 

ag·ile

ˈajəl/

adjective

 

1. able to move quickly and easily.

 

(both referenced from Google)

 

You guys need to use the right word then. ALL EUCs are maneuverable, maneuverability does not involve speed (see definition above). This is the physics of being on a single wheel that contacts the pavement with relatively the same amount of surface area upon which to turn on, across all current wheel sizes 14"-18" .

 

Agility involves quickness. If you are saying 14" EUCs are more agile, then yes, I will agree with you, but only to a certain extent. The difference does not even remotely hinder the ability to navigate amidst a crowd of pedestrians, or the ability to travel slowly, i.e. ride at a crawl.

 

Case in point, the video @Tyred just posted to the Video forum shows how both MSuper & KS-14 are both maneuverable, but the KS-14 is a bit more agile:

 

 

[Sweet M]

Thank you for clearing that up @houseofjob......... :-)

fas·tid·i·ous

faˈstidēəs/

adjective

I've now edited my original post in hopes that all will, not only better understand this review, but also be better informed of what to expect in experiencing a variety of wheel sizes.

[Cloud]

Ha... @houseofjob i  know you were trying to end the debate, but i think it had the opposite effect - you just got me started  So in the spirit of being fastidious  i have to respectfully disagree  

First of all, the definition of the word maneuverable that you listed does not support your point. Able to be maneuvered doesnt confirm or deny the effect of the agility ( speed). 

lets review some of the definitions of the word " maneuver"

from merriam webster disctionary
 

1. 3a  :  evasive movement or shift of tactic

From freedictionary.com

1. A movement or a combination of movement involving skill and dexterity

 

from vocabulary.com

 

nan action aimed at evading an opponent

 

All of these definitions support the point that speed, ( fast acceleration, dexterity, agility) are part of being able to maneuver successfully.

To make an  evasive. Movement, one has to be able to accelerate or brake fast. Being able to turn slowly when a pedestrian is going to collide with you will not be enough to evade them!

 

to make a skillful or dexterous movement, one has to have agility. when obstacles are coming at you and and you need to act quickly to avoid collision - you need agility , its part of being able to maneuver.

 

Manoever are usually associated with speed. Think about military maneuvers - to avoid being shot - u need the agility. 

If a ship is moving around obstacles super slowly like a turtle - we dont thnk of it as manouvering. We think of it as a well calculated trajectory - moving in this manner requires brains but not that much skill - as the ship has all the time in the world to make sure it wont collide.

 

Love the video though  the guy is awesome, very skillful, dexterous, adroit, and agile...i.e. Maneuverable  

 

 

 

[houseofjob]

2 minutes ago, Cloud said:

Ha... @houseofjob i  know you were trying to end the debate, but i think it had the opposite effect - you just got me started  So in the spirit of being fastidious  i have to respectfully disagree  

First of all, the definition of the word maneuverable that you listed does not support your point. Able to be maneuvered doesnt confirm or deny the effect of the agility ( speed). 

lets review some of the definitions of the word " maneuver"

from merriam webster disctionary
 

1. 3a  :  evasive movement or shift of tactic

From freedictionary.com

1. A movement or a combination of movement involving skill and dexterity

 

from vocabulary.com

 

nan action aimed at evading an opponent

 

All of these definitions support the point that speed, ( fast acceleration, dexterity, agility) are part of being able to maneuver successfully.

To make an  evasive. Movement, one has to be able to accelerate or brake fast. Being able to turn slowly when a pedestrian is going to collide with you will not be enough to evade them!

 

to make a skillful or dexterous movement, one has to have agility. when obstacles are coming at you and and you need to act quickly to avoid collision - you need agility , its part of being able to maneuver.

 

Manoever are usually associated with speed. Think about military maneuvers - to avoid being shot - u need the agility. 

If a ship is moving around obstacles super slowly like a turtle - we dont thnk of it as manouvering. We think of it as a well calculated trajectory - moving in this manner requires brains but not that much skill - as the ship has all the time in the world to make sure it wont collide.

 

Love the video though  the guy is awesome, very skillful, dexterous, adroit, and agile...i.e. Maneuverable  

 

 

 

You make riding an 18" uni sound like riding a dead horse.  

I'm not sure what part of that video of the MSuper gives you the impression of a slow clumsy device incapable of navigating walking pedestrians. Are you riding regularly amongst a herd of stampeding rhinos perhaps?

[Cloud]

My friend, no need to take this personally - this is just a fun and friendly debate, at least for me.

you are going to extremes- i never said riding an 18 is slow, clumsy or incapable. In fact i am thinking of buying an 18" so i am definitely not in any way negative about it. I know you love your 18 incher. I am sure its the best wheel in the world, i just think 14 is more maneuverable, thats all! 

It Actually sounds like fun to ride an euc among a herd of stampeding rhinos...

edit : as recently as an hour ago i was riding on sidewalk. A girl suddenly came out of a restaurant and was crossing the sidewalk in front of me. She wasnt looking around, she just went ahead. I braked and turned away trying to avoid her. I only had 1 second or so to brake. I still collided with her but my speed was minimal almost zero. I had to hold her to make sure she doesnt fall. Noone was hurt. Had my wheel been heavier/ more massive, i would have knocked her down.

[houseofjob]

No, nothing personal, I just dislike misinformation on a forum like this that helps others gather intel on buying their first EUC, and all the comments about the "big disadvantages" of 18" wheels come only from people who barely have ridden one, let alone own one.

Again, I don't understand how the movements of the 18" MSuper in the video matches your statement below, how is his turning defined as too slow to evade a pedestrian? Please explain this to me.

"Being able to turn slowly when a pedestrian is going to collide with you will not be enough to evade them!"

[Cloud]

2 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

No, nothing personal, I just dislike misinformation on a forum like this that helps others gather intel on buying their first EUC, and all the comments about the "big disadvantages" of 18" wheels come only from people who barely have ridden one, let alone own one.

Again, I don't understand how the movements of the 18" MSuper in the video matches your statement below, how is his turning defined as slow? Please explain this to me.

"Being able to turn slowly when a pedestrian is going to collide with you will not be enough to evade them!"

What misinformation? We all express opinions, which if expressed honestly, are not misinformation even if someone is mistaken.

All wheels have advantages and disadvantages over other wheels - there is no one perfect wheel, i hope you agree.

I didnt say that 18" is slow. It can be faster than the 14. My sentence above about moving slowly was to illustrate a point that one may need to gain speed fast ( accelerate fast) under certain circumstances. This was not aimed at making an impression that 18" is a slow wheel. The sentence meant that when a pedestrican is moving towards you on a collision course, you need to evade/ move out of the way/ Turn away fast - as making a tight turn slowly may not be enough to avoid collision. 

Also Note that we are comparing. If something is slowER than something else, doesnt mean it is slow. 

 

[houseofjob]

3 minutes ago, Cloud said:

What misinformation? We all express opinions, which if expressed honestly, are not misinformation even if someone is mistaken.

All wheels have advantages and disadvantages over other wheels - there is no one perfect wheel, i hope you agree.

I didnt say that 18" is slow. It can be faster than the 14. My sentence above about moving slowly was to illustrate a point that one may need to gain speed fast ( accelerate fast) under certain circumstances. This was not aimed at making an impression that 18" is a slow wheel. The sentence meant that when a pedestrican is moving towards you on a collision course, you need to evade/ move out of the way/ Turn away fast - as making a tight turn slowly may not be enough to avoid collision. 

Also Note that we are comparing. If something is slowER than something else, doesnt mean it is slow. 

 

You still haven't answered my question: what about the turning / turning speed of the 18" MSuper in the video is so inadequate to not be agile enough to evade pedestrians coming at you then?

[Cloud]

2 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

You still haven't answered my question: what about the turning / turning speed of the 18" MSuper in the video is so inadequate to not be agile enough to evade pedestrians coming at you then?

There is not enough input data to answer your question :

how can i know if the speed of msuper in the video is agile enough to evade pedestrians if i dont know the speed of a particular pedestrian and the distance between the rider and the pedestrian at the point when the rider starts avoiding them? Some pedestrians will be avoided and some may not.

This being said, the 14 " kingsong looks more agile in the video in making the same radius turns. And therefore has better chances of avoiding the pedestrians.

i know you wont take what i am saying seriously as i barely rode an 18". You dont have to believe me.

Take it from Newton :  a = F / m

 

 

 

[houseofjob]

18 minutes ago, Cloud said:

There is not enough input data to answer your question :

how can i know if the speed of msuper in the video is agile enough to evade pedestrians if i dont know the speed of a particular pedestrian and the distance between the rider and the pedestrian at the point when the rider starts avoiding them? Some pedestrians will be avoided and some may not.

This being said, the 14 " kingsong looks more agile in the video in making the same radius turns. And therefore has better chances of avoiding the pedestrians.

i know you wont take what i am saying seriously as i barely rode an 18". You dont have to believe me.

Take it from Newton :  a = F / m

 

 

 

And thus my point is your comparisons are based on assumptions, not experience. 

Of course I have a hard time believing you when I've put equal amounts of riding time in 14" (Zero), 16" (NB1E+), and 18" (KS-18) wheels, and my experiences do not match your claims of this big gap in maneuverability/agility between a 14" and 18" wheel. But my disbelief becomes even worse when I know you haven't invested the same amount of time into an 18" wheel as you have your KS-14 to speak so definitively. 

I would hope you do purchase that KS-18 soon and put in extensive time with it to master it (again, different experience from the rest), and then see if you so definitively maintain the same opinion.... because I once thought what you did, being influenced by these forums, but experiencing for myself, I no longer do. And looking at comments like @edwin_rm, I don't think I'm alone.

[Cloud]

24 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

And thus my point is your comparisons are based on assumptions, not experience. 

Of course I have a hard time believing you when I've put equal amounts of riding time in 14" (Zero), 16" (NB1E+), and 18" (KS-18) wheels, and my experiences do not match your claims of this big gap in maneuverability/agility between a 14" and 18" wheel. But my disbelief becomes even worse when I know you haven't invested the same amount of time into an 18" wheel as you have your KS-14 to speak so definitively. 

I cant argue with what you said above. In my original post i made a reservation that i dont own an 18" and therefore not speaking from personal experience of riding one, and could be mistaken. My comparison is based on deductions, rather than assumptions.

But if you re-read the posts, you will see that the premise of the argument was based on the fact that we seemed to have a different understanding of what "maneuverability" is. It seems we agree on the characteristics of the wheel, but you believe that manouverability is the ability to make tight turns and i believe that its more than that, its also agility. 

Edit: so really there is nothing to argue. In fact you seem to agree that the 14" is more agile. Maybe we will just avoid the word maneuverability  

Gee, i guess we totally hijacked the thread...sorry, everyone!!

 

[houseofjob]

19 minutes ago, Cloud said:

I cant argue with what you said above. In my original post i made a reservation that i dont own an 18" and therefore not speaking from personal experience of riding one, and could be mistaken. My comparison is based on deductions, rather than assumptions.

But if you re-read the posts, you will see that the premise of the argument was based on the fact that we seemed to have a different understanding of what "maneuverability" is. It seems we agree on the characteristics of the wheel, but you believe that manouverability is the ability to make tight turns and i believe that its more than that, its also agility. 

Edit: so really there is nothing to argue. In fact you seem to agree that the 14" is more agile. Maybe we will just avoid the word maneuverability  

 

Yes, even your Merriam Webster definition of maneuverability does not directly state speed, so I can't agree with that.

And yes, the 14" is more agile, but it's not night and day, and it's different. I cannot speak for the MSuper, but the agility of the KS-18 is based on leveraging it's height and shifting your body/hips position in relation to it, which is much more pronounced than any other EUC I've ridden, and you simply don't ride the same way when weaving as you do any other EUC. This is where it's agility comes from, and I would say it rivals any size wheels maneuverability or agility, or whatever you wanna call it.

[OliverH]

This KS14 acts so easy and agile between the legs. It's amazing. The MSuper drives like a tank. That was my impression as I drove over 3 hours on a tour. It needs much more forces to make turns. Also experienced MSuper riders in the group having problems to make 180 degree turns. But I'll try that in the next months- I just ordered the MSuper (need the current one for reason).

An average rider coming from an other wheel will feel that you need much more forces to make turns with the MSuper. As I drove it the first time I was so surprised by the force needed that I didn't manage to make a turn on a small road.  Amazing what the guy did with the MSuper in the video. Never seen that before with a MSuper

[edwin_rm]

Ultimately, it could be the wheel weight and not the wheel size what determines how easy a euc is to maneuver around. My SW 18" 160-200wh is nowhere near as heavy as the GW 14" 680wh. That might also explain the higher agility of the SW.

[SlowMo]

There will also be some software programming that could affect the maneuverability of individual models. Take for example the Ninebot One E at Zero Ride mode is much harder to turn/maneuver than the Gotway MCM2s at Sports mode.

[edwin_rm]

¡MYSTERY SOLVED!

I changed the ride mode on my GotWay from hard, to medium stiffness, and gues what?... It is now as agile as the Solowheel Xtreme! Pedals no longer scrape the floor and I can turn as tight as the SW Xtreme. 

In other words, what determines the degree of meneuverability is not necessarily wheel size nor wheel weight, but rather, it is ride stiffness mode. Less stiffness equals more agility.

Do the changes in the King Song apps, and confirm if you get the same results by doing tight turns on each setting. Try it.

[Sweet M]

@edwin_rm.........Interesting!!!!!!!  Not sure about Gotway's ride modes, but assuming there are least 3, why not choose an even more relaxed mode to make your wheel even more agile?  

I'll do some  trials on my KS 18, KS 14, and IPS 16 in the days to come and report it.  I've been kinda looking for more explanation re: exactly what the pros/cons are with the varying modes.  If anyone can better explain (other than 1 mode is more "stiff" than the other) I'd appreciate it.  And....... since I'm very capable of negotiating any environment(s) in which I travel in my current "stiffest mode", I'd be interested to know if maybe the other modes had more to offer.  Maybe I've had the modes thing all backward? I just always felt that the way the modes were portrayed, the higher the mode, the more advanced the rider would need to be.  On the KS the modes are Play, Ride, and Study.  I assumed that "Study" was for the beginner and "Play" would be more advanced, so of course, I have it on "Play".

[Cloud]

I have to say this is very strange. I woukd think the opposite - A softer mode is slower to react and should be less maneuvarable. Each mode suggests its own riding style. When i am in the softest mode, turns, maneuvers take much longer as i need to "ease into them" the hardest mode reacts immediately. I orefer the hardest but ride in medium ( play) as the hardest mode makes in too rough on the obstacles especially at my high tire pressure

[Sweet M]

46 minutes ago, Cloud said:

I have to say this is very strange. I woukd think the opposite - A softer mode is slower to react and should be less maneuvarable. Each mode suggests its own riding style. When i am in the softest mode, turns, maneuvers take much longer as i need to "ease into them" the hardest mode reacts immediately. I orefer the hardest but ride in medium ( play) as the hardest mode makes in too rough on the obstacles especially at my high tire pressure

So are ya saying that softer modes makes for a more smooth ride over bumps, street imperfections, etc....?  What "riding style" would you label each mode?

[Cloud]

22 minutes ago, Sweet M said:

So are ya saying that softer modes makes for a more smooth ride over bumps, street imperfections, etc....?  What "riding style" would you label each mode?

Basically, as the wheel gives in to change in direction, obstacles, etc more in a softer mode. I dont recommend the softest mode, its like you are floating - it becomes dangerous. But the hardest mide is in a way the most responsive but you feel the little pits, uneven pavement much more. If your tire pressure is low its not so bad, but if its high, you feel those hits constanctly.  UNLESS where you ride the pavement is very smoo, then it doesnt matter. 

Eventually one learns to adjust to the hardest or the medium mode and will feel comfortable. I can be fast in the medium mode too, i just need to use the right technique for each

[edwin_rm]

1 hour ago, Sweet M said:

@edwin_rm.........Interesting!!!!!!!  Not sure about Gotway's ride modes, but assuming there are least 3, why not choose an even more relaxed mode to make your wheel even more agile?  

With GotWay, the lowest stiffeness mode is extremely difficult to ride. The wheel leans a massive amount! I'd imagine that mode would be useful for tight cornerig at high speeds (racing). 

It is true that the hardest stiffness mode is better for responsiveness and instant acceleration, but the stiffeness of the ride is what makes it so much harder to make fast cornering. On hard mode, it will just flip sideways at high speed, not so on loose mode.