Would you be interested in a Helite Airbag Vest specifically for EUC riders?.

[The Brahan Seer]

11 hours ago, Paul A said:

Why buy a Helite when there exists better quality options available.

Alpinestars, Dainese, Klim, utilize artificial intelligence.  

They are effective, reliable, race proven.

 

This racer does not use a tether system.

The airbag deploys completely before rider has even separated.

 Helite also provide AI non tethered solutions. If you did your research then you would know this too. 

How do you know they are better quality? I take it you have tried them out? 

The other options are very expensive to recharge when you fall and we fall a lot in EUC riding.  Plus many of them use subscription models just for the algorithm so would be inappropriate for the majority of use cases here.

If you could come up with something positive to add to this current discussion that would be great. 

How do you think they could implement a good solution?  

 

[Paul A]

1 hour ago, The Brahan Seer said:

 Helite also provide AI non tethered solutions.

 

A search for "helite airbag vest artificial intelligence" does not result in the affirmative.

___________________________________

 

The following website, dated December 11, 2019, states that there is an intent by Helite, to provide 'electronic airbag technology'.

 

https://www.webbikeworld.com/helite-will-offer-electronic-airbag-technology-on-the-gp-air-vest-and-the-turtle-2-vest/

The company will have some fancy new technology available to its customers for 2020.

Helite will be adding electronic airbag technology to the GP Air Vest and the Turtle 2 Vest.

This will be a new system offered alongside the mechanically triggered airbag system.

The electronically triggered system will be comprised of two different sensors.

These sensors will detect the situation the rider is in and then deploy the airbag system when needed.

 

The first sensor is for impacts and is installed on the motorcycle. It can cause the airbag to deploy even when the rider is at a standstill.

The second is a motion sensor that can detect if a rider goes down or if there’s an accident while moving.

These two sensors together should help make sure that the vest deploys at the right time. 

 

At this time, Helite doesn’t have pricing information for these vests.

I’ll be reaching out to the company to see if there’s more information that we can share.

 

______________________________________

 

1 hour ago, The Brahan Seer said:

How do you know they are better quality?

 

 

 

_______________________________________________

 

1 hour ago, The Brahan Seer said:

If you could come up with something positive to add to this current discussion that would be great. 

 

Perhaps highlighting deficiencies of a product, may appear to be negative..........however, it is valuable information for members to consider.

__________________________________________________

 

1 hour ago, The Brahan Seer said:

How do you think they could implement a good solution?  

 

Other manufacturers are offering airbag vests, with AI, race proven, used by MotoGP racers.

 

[The Brahan Seer]

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

A search for "helite airbag vest artificial intelligence" does not result in the affirmative

Mmm let me help you out...

https://heliteuk.co.uk/product/helite-e-gp-air/

This product is exactly like the others is your list considering AI is only a buzz word used in marketing.

Have you considered critical thinking and actually thinking in general whether a post is warranted? Especially when a representative from a company has reached out and all you can do is give uninformed information in a negative way?

The AI in all your suggestions are not geared up for EUC's which is why they are not an option and part of the reason Helite has reached out.

I do question from your response if you are indeed human or some kind of bot system sometimes. 

My last question which was about the Helite solution.

 

 

[Tawpie]

3 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Other members may wish to offer thoughts, ideas, suggestions.

@HELITE Airbag Technology?

 

[HELITE Airbag Technology]

Thank you for all of your feedback. OK. Lots to unpack here. I apologize for the delay in replying back. It took me sometime to watch the 1537 videos that were posted. Our goal is to communicate with the community to come up with ideas that I can bring back to the factory to analyze. Just here to listen and answer some questions, and hopefully we have a product that may work for the EUC community. 

You can easily research who we are as a company, and the products that we provide for many different communities and occupations. We have been providing personal airbag protection for over 20 years, and have one of the best reputations in the industry. Yes, we make specific types of airbag protection for motorcycle riders. We also have a foot in the medical field, aeronautics, construction field, etc., which is why I am here gathering information. Our technology can cater to many different activities, so why not see if that applies to the EUC community.

I am not making any promises, but I am excited to see what the possibilities can be. I think an electronic system would make the most sense for EUC riders. This is something I will need to explore with the factory to see if it is feasible. If there is interest from the community, I will make an effort to see what we can come up with for the EUC community. 

 

If you spend anytime researching our company, you will see that we provide the same options as the companies mentioned above in the 800 google searches that were included. We have an electronic system that has been on the market for going on three years. We utilize gyroscopes, accelerometers and GPS, just like the other companies mentioned. I guess this is the "AI" that they are referring to, when in actuality, it is an electronic triggering system that uses algorithms to deploy in a crash situation. There is no subscription service. You don't have to purchase the CPU/CDU from a separate company as required by some of the other manufacturers. Nothing is outsourced and is all done in house. You don't have to send the vest in to be recharged after every deployment. The end user can easily replace the cartridge in a matter of minutes. Yes, we also provide airbags for quite a few of the racing suit manufacturers used in GP races. 

Do you think a vest, or a backpack would be preferred? What are the most common injuries? What areas would you like to see protected? Would cost be a factor? Do you prefer HiViz or a more standard color? Is weight a factor? Do most crashes occur going over a certain speed? Do you have any questions for me?

Looking forward to your replies. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tawpie]

5 hours ago, HELITE Airbag Technology said:

Do you think a vest, or a backpack would be preferred?

I'd prefer a vest

 

5 hours ago, HELITE Airbag Technology said:

What are the most common injuries?

road rash, concussion, shoulder, wrist and some broken legs. face damage if not in a full face helmet

 

5 hours ago, HELITE Airbag Technology said:

What areas would you like to see protected?

hip (I'm old), shoulder, chest, neck

 

5 hours ago, HELITE Airbag Technology said:

Would cost be a factor?

always

 

5 hours ago, HELITE Airbag Technology said:

Do you prefer HiViz or a more standard color?

I prefer HiViz, but am in the minority.

 

5 hours ago, HELITE Airbag Technology said:

Is weight a factor?

absolutely, we have to carry the weight... in a semi crouching pose for the most part

 

5 hours ago, HELITE Airbag Technology said:

Do most crashes occur going over a certain speed?

I've crashed at 0 mph and faster... what happens as a consequence changes depending on speed and the kind of crash. At speed, if you go down forward (most common) you risk wrist, shoulder, face, knee and chest. But you can go off backwards and that involves butt/tailbone, back, wrist, and whiplash. Low speed crashes have hip and wrist risk partly because you can hit the ground in many poses.

 

5 hours ago, HELITE Airbag Technology said:

Do you have any questions for me?

Are you considering the effects of ambient temperature in your design (hot sweaty summer with as little clothing as practicable, freezing cold winter dressed like the Michelin man)

I would be very interested in a system that when activated, covered my hip area well—batman's tool belt that deploys down into a skirt if you will. Broken hips can end up being fatal for people my age, and we are likely to have the means to purchase preventive measures. And for the forward crashes, something that prevented the landing shock from going directly into the shoulder would be very tempting... prevent elbow lock and/or absorbed the impact from landing on elbows. Are these kind of things on your radar at all?

Have you considered small, separate pieces? Airbag elbow guards. Airbags that fit into the pockets built into a lot of motorcycle gear (thinking hip and back here mostly)? Being able to slim down the outfit has some appeal.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Tawpie

[Klyctyowt]

I wonder how hard it would be to get info from the wheel, and if that'd be helpful?

 

The wheel quickly knows that things have gone wrong in some kinds of crashes. One big downside to that approach is that would require some kind of integration with each wheel. 

 

I wonder if we can get people to ware the sensors without an airbag ahead of time, then you could look at the data after the crash?

[Chriull]

On 3/10/2023 at 11:13 PM, HELITE Airbag Technology said:

Looking forward to your replies.

Split the "i can't find one without tether", AI, YT, etc posts off to 

to not further dilute/distract from your questionnaire to evaluate development of a specific EUC airbag vest.

Could have been just a temporal overlap with a new product?

Whatever - Let's focus on gathering constructive facts and ideas in this discussion from now on.

[Kamber]

Would definitely be interested in a EUC-purposed airbag vest or top. Are there any existing Helite products that have an e-trigger system that would work for EUC riders besides the e-GP Air Track Vest, or is that the only suitable product so far?

[Kamber]

1 hour ago, Kamber said:

Would definitely be interested in a EUC-purposed airbag vest or top. Are there any existing Helite products that have an e-trigger system that would work for EUC riders besides the e-GP Air Track Vest, or is that the only suitable product so far?

Can't seem to edit my previous post, probably because I'm new to the forum.

After doing some research, it seems that there are currently three current HELITE products with electronic trigger mechanisms:
- E-Turtle 2 Air Vest

- E-GP Air Track Vest

- H-MOOV Airbag Backpack

Thinking I'm going to go with an E-Turtle 2, unless something EUC specific is in the works to be released in 2023.

[Paul A]

https://forums.13x.com/index.php?threads/helite-e-gp-air-airbag-vest.376157/

[Chriull]

7 hours ago, Kamber said:

Thinking I'm going to go with an E-Turtle 2, unless something EUC specific is in the works to be released in 2023.

I'd interpret @HELITE Airbag Technology post

On 3/1/2023 at 7:39 PM, HELITE Airbag Technology said:

Hey Folks,

 

My name is Mike and I am a representative for HELITE Airbag Technology. I just wanted to chime in on this thread to see if I can help answer any questions you may have regarding our technology, and how we can offer this technology to the EUC community. The owner of our company rides an InMotion V11 and that is what brought me here to this forum. He is passionate about this community and wants to see how we may be able to bring this technology to market for the EUC riders out there.

We are open to hearing your thoughts, and I am happy to answer your questions. I look forward to interacting with you all and becoming a member of your forum and community. 

that they are very interested in adopting their vest for EUC, but are just in the evaluation stage?

 

On 3/10/2023 at 11:13 PM, HELITE Airbag Technology said:

I am not making any promises, but I am excited to see what the possibilities can be. I think an electronic system would make the most sense for EUC riders. This is something I will need to explore with the factory to see if it is feasible. If there is interest from the community, I will make an effort to see what we can come up with for the EUC community

 

On 3/10/2023 at 11:13 PM, HELITE Airbag Technology said:

Do you think a vest, or a backpack would be preferred? What are the most common injuries? What areas would you like to see protected? Would cost be a factor? Do you prefer HiViz or a more standard color? Is weight a factor? Do most crashes occur going over a certain speed? Do you have any questions for me?

Looking forward to your replies. 

 

[Kamber]

@Chriull Agreed, it doesn't seem like anything EUC-specific is going to become available for retail purchase in the near-term future. All good, will likely pull the trigger on an e-Turtle 2 for now - seems excellent.

[Paul A]

The electronic Helite does not deploy under 12mph.

The fork sensor needs to be installed, for it to detect and deploy under 12mph.

[Chriull]

3 hours ago, Kamber said:

@Chriull Agreed, it doesn't seem like anything EUC-specific is going to become available for retail purchase in the near-term future. All good, will likely pull the trigger on an e-Turtle 2 for now - seems excellent.

Imho it's a firmware "issue" to adopt it to EUC's. Beside their own investigations @HELITE Airbag Technologycould be interested in "beta testers", or for now mainly, as he asked for which kind of accidents happen how with EUC's.

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

The electronic Helite does not deploy under 12mph.

That's a "problem" by now for EUC usage which will have to be adopted.

An accident at 12 mph which can not be stood ("outrunned") by the rider can lead to nasty injuries. Once the feet "stick" to the ground the face is strongly accelerated to the ground and needs full protection from the vest. So imho the threshold to trigger the vest has to be much lower and very different triggers are relevant for EUC's as for bicycles or motorbikes.

[Paul A]

23 hours ago, Kamber said:

airbag vest

 

Perhaps consider this.

Spoiler

The Helite relies on a 'fork sensor' to detect impact, and deploy, when the rider is stationary.

 

 

https://forums.13x.com/index.php?threads/helite-e-gp-air-airbag-vest.376157/

 

The Alpine Star Tech Air 5 does not use a Fork Sensor. 

It is permanently armed to deploy when rider is stationary, in the event of being rear ended whilst at lights.

 

______________________________________________________

 

The single, hard, metallic gas cylinder of the Helite is positioned at the front of the body, next to the ribs.

 

 

The two gas cylinders of the Alpine Stars Tech 5, are located on the back of a rider.

 

 

____________________________________________________________

 

Helite inflation time: 0.08 seconds

https://helitemoto.com/helite-e-turtle-2-airbag-vest-black/

 

Alpine Stars Air Tech 5 inflation time: 0.025 - 0.040 seconds

 

__________________________________________________

 

The Helite back protector is certified to level 2.

https://helitemoto.com/helite-e-turtle-2-airbag-vest-black/

 

Level 2 certification is:

 

 

The Alpine Stars Air Tech 5 airbag protection is greater than level 2.

_______________________________________________________

 

 

 

[Chriull]

8 minutes ago, Paul A said:

The Helite relies on a 'fork sensor' to detect impact, and deploy, when the rider is stationary.

This is the motorcycle version which is not relevant for EUC's as we have no fork to apply a sensor. As written this has to be adopted. Everyone including @HELITE Airbag Technologyknows this - don't know why you keep repeating rhis point?

[Paul A]

38 minutes ago, Chriull said:

why you keep repeating rhis point?

 

Kamber is a new member.

Does not appear to be aware of the limitation.

May not be aware/familiar/access to the moved posts that detailed the shortcomings of the Helite.....and existence/availability of proven products from reputable manufacturers.

[Kamber]

I’m well aware and read through everything prior to even signing up for the forum - just avoided commenting since, no offense, but Paul A’s posts are pretty stubborn/troll’ish and I’m not interested in engaging that.

Personally, I’d rather not get something that has to be sent off to be recharged; I like that the Helite can be rearmed by the end user if it is accidentally or intentionally discharged. Accidental discharges seem common enough with the Alpinestars product - not interested in dealing with the reset process involved. I’m also not open to entertaining anything that requires a third party subscription or one-time lifetime activation fee, for various reasons.

Hopefully the Helite firmware can be updated in the future to better serve EUC riders, but out of everything available currently, I’d prefer it despite its shortcoming of not being armed under 12mph. Looking forward to an EUC specific product from them or others in the future if available.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Kamber

[Paul A]

Member Kamber joined on April 1, 2023, one week ago.

Thought the information would be of assistance for a new member.

[Kamber]

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

Member Kamber joined on April 1, 2023, one week ago.

Thought the information would be of assistance for a new member.

Thanks, I appreciate the thoughtfulness.

[Rikachu]

I have the Helite electronic version, and I've crash tested it. I can say that it definitely works
 

@HELITE Airbag Technologyfeel free to reach out anytime

Edited May 4, 2023 by Rikachu

[Chriull]

7 hours ago, Rikachu said:

@Helite feel free to reach out anytime

Working notification looks like @HELITE Airbag Technology

 

[RollingFuck]

I definitely want an EUC specific airbag vest/jacket.  Auto-deployed by electronic sensors calibrated for EUC would be optimal.  I would like to see a feature where the rider can quickly switch between modes.  Something like commuting mode, off-roading mode, and jump mode.  I wouldn’t want the vest to deploy while I’m mid air intentionally at a pump track, skate park, MTB trail.  I also wouldn’t want it to deploy going up/down stairs, or dropping off a 4 foot loading dock or something. If I were to really use my imagination for some EUC airbag vest app of my dreams, I’d want it to connect via Bluetooth to suppose I’d also like to see an app that can connect to the EUC via Bluetooth and receive information about how close the rider is to 100% of available power, or sharing error messages or something.  I don’t know what is realistic to expect for potential communication between the EUC and the vest or a smartphone app, but in a perfect world, accelerometer data would be shared at whatever level of detail is feasible with lag time.  Maybe it’s just the riders data uploading at the end of the ride and Helite collecting it to model what normal behavior looks like.  In a perfect world I also would want the app or vest to remember the last mode selected if the rider has multiple EUCs.  I have an MTen4, V12, and V13.  I would want them all to have very different profiles for when to deploy and I wouldn’t want to forget to switch modes when I switch EUCs.  Bottom line for me, If Helite made an EUC specific airbag vest with electronic deployment optimized for EUC I would by one today and I would be willing to pay $650-$850 USD if it had robust testing and well modeled EUC rider behavior.

 

 

[The Brahan Seer]

If you are a trail rider this new product might interest you..

https://heliteuk.co.uk/the-new-helite-off-road-airbag/