head to head IPS 680+ vs IPS Lhotz 340 Review

[Jurgen]

I’m going give a head to head comparison between the IPS Lhotz 340 and the T680+(a.k.a. “Tank” or 151/152, or T500 which is mentioned on the box; the fine art of marketing cleary has not trickled down to IPS yet ).

I’ll split the review up in several parts, as this will make it easier to comment and/or ask questions.

After combing through most threads on brands, BMS, motor, battery, FP or not to FP, etc., I count myself lucky to have bought a Lhotz340Wh (older version with torque biased motor, limited to 20KmH) august last year. So why did I buy the IPS 680+?

Lhotz Design:
The broader (2,5inch) and larger tyre which actually makes the wheel around >1inch bigger than the one of th IPS680+ results in good traction and stability.
It has relatively long pedals (22cm, you can scrape the corner of the pedals on the ground in tight turns) so you can place your feet exactly where you want them depending on what you want to do, which improves control over the wheel. The pedals are made of solid painted aluminum, they are not that thick and I tend to feel some flex (real flex or the hinges, fixtures?). Because of the paint the pedals are quite slippery when wet, this is nothing a patch of skate board tape cannot cure.
The body (15cm wide) tapers off towards the edges and there’s no protruding battery housing at the top, so there’s room for the inner side of your calfs (no pressure) and you can put your feet close to the center which is great for stability and control. As a consequence the biggest pressure is on the inside of the ankles instead of the calfs. There’s here and there in strategic places soft rubber-like bright red padding (the brownread stuff on the pictures is my doing), with a high friction surface which is great for improving control over the wheel. The case has broad cut-outs front and back, so negotiation small obstacles like branches on the road poses no problem at all.
The Lhotz is very sturdy by design, no rattles or creaks if you pressure it, and the handle is stainless steel so it doesn’t break even if you wheel bounces downhill without you. This all comes at a weight penalty of course: 14 kg. The round stainless tube of which the handle is made doesn’t improve the weight perception when carrying it, it’s slippery and cold in winter (I’m now using a samsonite belt to carry it).
I don’t understand why IPS put a plastic slide-on charging port cover on it, which doesn’t stick for more than a minute. To save weight perhaps, really??? (I replaced it by an aftermarket metal screw cap)The battery charger is a very light box with an active cooling system (which doesn’t inspire a lot of trust, what happens if the ventilator dies?), and a US style wall plug (an EU adapter was sold separately)
Verdict: Excellent

Lhotz Safety:
The Lhotz has enough torque to cope with my 100Kg adequately but it’s not perfect, I’ve had 2 FP, 1 overtorqueing when acceleration too fast from standstill, and 1 on a slight downward slope riding in a pit when at it’s cruising speed. When I push the weel, I can feel it (the motor?) struggling and  (I believe) the BMS sometimes cuts in fractions of a second when the battery is drained too fast.
I’ve experienced no BMS cut-outs though; when the batt level decreases the pedals start tilting at lower speeds and the weel starts beeping if you try to push it, even at very low speeds the tiltback is quite strong so there seems to be plenty of reserve programmed into the BMS. Therefor I would consider the Lhotz by design a relatively safe wheel, the flipside is that below 50% batt level the wheel is no fun to ride at all, and it’s game over below 30%.
Verdict: Very good

Lhotz Range/speed:
Even with the torque biased motor, limited to 20KmH, it doesn’t feel that stable at the 17KmH cruising speed (see safety topic above).
At 17KmH cruising speed, it drains 50% of the battery in about 12km. I live in a small village, and for shopping, the library, public administration, etc. I have to commute to the main village of the region which is at 5km one way. 12Km max range is not enough, driving around a bit for the shopping, windy conditions, low temp, and I barely can get home. There’s no fun in carrying a 14kg wheel, believe me, this causes me quite a bit of range anxiety.  My wife already had to come and ‘save’ me by car, because I forgot the evening before that I rode just a very short distance and didn’t charge it to a full 100% (I try to avoid this because it’s not good for the battery).
So if a guy of my size needs a cruising range of >15Km at a cruising speed of 20-25KmH,  340Wh is nearly not enough. Adequate.

Which brings me to my choice of the T680+:  Looking around, I saw no 16” alternatives from a reputed brand with such a big battery and a proven design (the KS16 is brand new).

With the T680+ I hope to find (almost) the same build quality, high torque motor, and decent safety features, all this for a price of 1,129.- USD (delivery and taxes included) delivered to my door in Belgium straight from the IamIPS factory in just 12 days.

[Jurgen]

 

T680+ Design:
Next to the Lhotz, the T680+ it looks quite a bit smaller.
This is because the tyre is thinner and smaller tyre (2.125). I’m curious to see how that will impact stability.
The body (16cm wide, compared to 15 for the Lhotz),is dominated by the protruding battery housing at the top. On pictures it may look as if the red side pannels are curved inward with a rubberized texture, this is an optical illusion I’m afraid, they are completely flat, and made of hard plastic like the rest of the casing. It seems bit less solidly built than the Lhotz. In short, very much old-style shoebox Volvo (or “Tank” if you like). It has no lights, so it’s much more low profile than the Lhotz or Zero.
It has shorter pedals (20cm, compared to 22 for the Lhotz), but width is the same 10cm. The pedals are made of hollow aluminum; my first impression is that they are more rigid than the Lhotz’s and less slippery.
The handle is covered in plastic (no clue whether it’s reinforced with a metal bar inside, I do hope so) and flatter on the inside, this should help when carrying the wheel.
There are safety stickers on the pedals (‘wear a helmet’) and even a smal English ‘warning’ manual inside the box, where they call the T680+ a Lunicycle (I’m not sure if this should worry me).
Even with a thinner tyre, a slighly less solid build, the 64 cell battery comes at a weight penalty: 14 kg (exactly the same as the Lhotz), which is not too bad I believe.
The battery charger is a nicely finished heavy box with a passive cooling system, and an EU style wall plug. It even has a screw-on ring to fasten the charging port plug. Definitely an improvement over the Lhotz charger.
I’ve kept the best for last: the “plastic slide-on charging port cover which doesn’t stick for more than a minute” fetish has not been cured at IPS yet (To make matters worse, the aftermarket metal screw cap is no longer available on Amazon…)
Verdict: Good up to very good (depending on how the form factor will impact handling)

[Paddylaz]

23 minutes ago, Jurgen said:

Therefor I would consider the Lhotz by design a relatively safe wheel, the flipside is that below 50% batt level the wheel is no fun to ride at all, and it’s game over below 30%.
Verdict: Very good

 

IPS must have made a lot of algorithm changes between your Lhotz and mine.

As well as being able to do 30km/h, my  wheel gives identical performance on flat ground/minor inclines at 20% as it does at 100%. It's probably my favourite thing about the wheel. Also IPS now ship with metal screw caps for the charge port. Great comparison though, wish the t680 was better looking.

[Jurgen]

Just now, Paddylaz said:

IPS must have made a lot of algorithm changes between your Lhotz and mine.

As well as being able to do 30km/h, my  wheel gives identical performance on flat ground/minor inclines at 20% as it does at 100%. It's probably my favourite thing about the wheel. Great comparison though 

I'm 100kg+ clothing+ groceries closer to 120kg. There another member my size who has quoted almost exactly the same range, what's your body weight?

[Paddylaz]

7 minutes ago, Jurgen said:

I'm 100kg+ clothing+ groceries closer to 120kg. There another member my size who has quoted almost exactly the same range, what's your body weight?

Admittedly only 76kg including clothes. But I don't use my wheel for commuting, just recreation in parks etc, so I push it pretty hard. Usually over 19kph at any given time. With lots of hard accelerations and stops.

But yeah, at least with my weight, zero slowdown/tilt back at 12-20% battery.

I've never been below about 12....

[SlowMo]

7 hours ago, Jurgen said:

I’ve kept the best for last: the “plastic slide-on charging port cover which doesn’t stick for more than a minute” fetish has not been cured at IPS yet (To make matters worse, the aftermarket metal screw cap is no longer available on Amazon…)

Try Bangood for the metal screw cap.

http://www.banggood.com/Electric-Wheelbarrow-Charging-Port-Covers-Dust-Covers-p-958009.html

 

[Colestien]

That's where I got mine. cheap, and they work.  They even have a rubber inside to keep it from shorting.  The only trouble I had was the "ring" that holds the chain...  On my Wheel, I would have to pull out the plug to attach it right.  For now I'm just careful with the cap when I'm charging.

[THA]

@Paddylaz @Jurgen I agree You both - perhaps 30% under Jurgen ends up to same voltage than 25% under me, but my batt is now at 32% (indoor): When I take it out (-4C), it drops to 24% in 5-10min. but Lhotz still runs 30kph on flat (tested maybe 200m - felt down hard, no protective gear on, ice under 2cm loose snow so studs didn't ever touch the ice - need a knobbeb tire instead of stock...). I'm happy, based on Jurgen comments I was a bit worried how this baby would perform in 10-50%...

[Jurgen]

 

T680+ First Impressions:

“OMG how am I going to ride this thing with the big battery box between my legs”was my first thought… The body (16cm wide, compared to 15 for the Lhotz),is dominated by the protruding battery housing at the top, where the Lhotz actually is a lot narrower because it tapers several centimeters toward the edge. The battery box on the T680+ is exactly that, a square box with edges like… a box. More on this later.

The motor is super smooth, in the way it starts, picks up speed, and keep accelerating. It is also very quiet. The older Lhotz’s motor has a rough edge, a noisy mechanical noise like an idling Mercedes diesel engine. The T680+ is more like a BMW petrol motor, smooth and refined. Where the Lhotz hesitates 0,1 of a second before accelerating from standstill the T680+ accelerates immediately and immediately reacts when asked for more power. Because of that, my wife who has just started riding finds the T680+ easier to start with. Once you are riding the acceleration of the T680+ remains very smooth, compared to the Lhotz where you can feel some ‘ripples’ in the acceleration.

The T680+ is still limited to 25KmH, at 21 KmH the pedals start to tilt slightly and very progressively until at 22KmH the beeping starts. The app allows you to test the beep but you cannot silence it.

When I push the T680+ it doesn’t struggle like the Lhotz and the BMS doesn’t cuts in fractions of a second (when the battery is drained too fast), which inspires a lot of trust in this wheel. I really feel safe on the T680+, even though 22KmH feels a lot faster than 17KmH (no way I can run off at this speed to avoid a FP), not only because of the motor but also the stability.

The T680+ feels very stable even at higher speeds, much stabler that the Lhotz. With the big battery box between the calf of the lower legs you have a lot of grip on the wheel and a longer lever (farther from the center of the wheel). With the Lhotz the point of control (and pressure) is more a the level of the ankles (closer to the center of the wheel) which allow for finer control and makes it more agile for turning tight circles (with the trade-off is that it’s less stable in a straight line).  Because I have big lower legs (with a lot of inward protruding calf muscle), the big battery box pushes my legs outwards, which means my shoe size 42/8 sticks out 1 centimeter over the pedal at the widest part of my forefoot. Also, because of their different form the pedals are shorter at the inner side, compared to the Lhotz, the big toe gets zero support if I align the back of my foot with the rear edge of the pedal. So far I’ve learned that for tight turns I need to put my feet a bit more backward (to slide my calf behind the box when turning), but then my feet start to feel numb rather quickly and the tilt-back of the pedals is more noticeable when at max cruising speed. If I move my feet more forward, it’s perfect for long distance cruising in a  straight line but I have to make wider turns. Because of the battery box of the T680+ the control just below the knee has one surprising advantage: riding with one leg is way more easier.

Braking feels a bit slower with the T680+ than with the Lhotz: is it the  2.125 tire instead of 2.5, the different threading of the tire, It cannot be the tire pressure (both are at 4bar), or the weight (both are 14kg). Or is it the different motor/motherboard/programming, as the T680+ doesn’t make a grinding noise under strong braking (BMS cutting in?)???

The torque feels no less than with the older Lhotz, which was supposed to be more torque biased (max 20KmH). The motor and motherboard of the T680+ are actually the same as the new Lhotz (max. 30KmH). At higher speed the T680+ even feels a lot more stable. My guess is that with the Lhotz the 340Wh battery is the limiting factor, and with the 680Wh battery of the T680+ there’s more current available for accelerating while keeping the rider stable. Further testing will tell how the wheel will handle when the battery is at 50% or lower.

The plastic battery cap looks exactly the same as on the Lhotz, but on the T680+ it actually fits and remains on the charging port except when you rub strongly against it. Anyway, I’ve ordered 3 aftermarket metal screw-on caps through Bangood, to cure this IPS plastic cap fetish.

Preliminary Conclusion: I’ve bought the T680+ because I wanted a safe, reliable, long-distance 16” cruising machine. The first impression is very good, the wheel exactly fits that description. If you have big feet and/or very big lower legs, and plan to buy any T (Tank) model from IPS my advice to you is to check it out first, and see if ergonomically it would work out for you.

[Jurgen]

 

IIPS 151 (T680+) Update after 3 months:

So I’m back with the next part of my review, a bit later than expected.

After riding the Lhotz for 6 months, switching to the T680+ gave me the first “OMG how am I going to ride this thing with the big battery box between my legs” impression. I had the same first impression when I had the opportunity to take a very short ride with a GW 18 Super…..with an additional impression of “this 18inch wheel stears like a pig compared to my 16” T680+”.

Larger batteries come with bigger volumes, which from a cost-effective production perspective are best put in double pack on either side of the EUC resulting in a big box. In the future more efficient batteries will get us more ergonomical and nicely designed EUC’s without having to sacrifice power and range, I guess.

I’ve given up learning to ride backwards after the pointy corner of the battery box hit my leg quite hard, which left me with a small wound on the shin that took weeks to heal, and my bum knee getting overstretched, so I didn’t ride a lot for a couple of weeks.
So is the box a real problem? No not really, I now put my feet more backwards on the pedals, which greatly improves handling (and leaves more support on the fore end of the foot), but for acrobatics I would choose another model.

The T680+ feels very stable even at higher speeds, much more stable that the Lhotz, not only because of the powerfull motor also but because of the battery box that you can squeeze tightly between the leggs. So the box is not all bad.

The T680+ motor is super quiet, smooth, and really powerfull. Even with my 100kg + gear, it picks up speed, and keep accelerating relentlessly without hesitance or hickups. At 21 KmH the pedals start to tilt slightly and very progressively till at 23KmH it start to slow beep, at 25KmH it fast beeps, and start to beep continuously at 27KmH (wearing a helmet helps ).
The app allows you to test the beep but you cannot silence it…..

Annoying, but safe. Which seems to be the overall approach of IPS, building good quality wheels with a lot of safety features.

 

So apart from power and control, what kind of range do you get out of 680Wh batteries?

Comparing the battery ‘charge’ indication and the battery voltage indication in the app, gives some interesting insights into the behaviour of the wheel.

When the battery voltage drops below 60V, I can feel that the wheel’s performance starts to weaken.
Even with the safety algorithm that IPS builds in their wheel, once the voltage drops below 58V (60% charge), it's performance no longer inspires me (110-120kg incl gear) with confidence to push it to the limit (see table and graph below).

In short: I avoid riding the wheel at batt charge <60%.

Are there things that can be improved? Of course:

        1. The corners of the battery box are too sharp, smoother edges are better for avoiding leg injuries

-       2. The pedals are too short on the inside, compared to the Lhotz, the big toe gets zero support when you have big feet

-       3. the plastic charging port cap doesn’t stick and must be replaced by an aftermarket screw-on cap.

-      4.  It has no lights built in.

Conclusion:
I’ve bought the T680+ because I wanted a safe, reliable, long-distance 16” cruising machine.
The design is a bit old-style with the boxy battery box on top, but when looking past that, it fits my requirements perfectly.

Oh, I almost forgot: for the same weight as the Lhotz 340Wh (14kg), you get a IPS T wheel with 680Wh.

[Jurgen]

On Thursday, February 04, 2016 at 9:03 PM, THA said:

@Paddylaz @Jurgen I agree You both - perhaps 30% under Jurgen ends up to same voltage than 25% under me, but my batt is now at 32% (indoor): When I take it out (-4C), it drops to 24% in 5-10min. but Lhotz still runs 30kph on flat (tested maybe 200m - felt down hard, no protective gear on, ice under 2cm loose snow so studs didn't ever touch the ice - need a knobbeb tire instead of stock...). I'm happy, based on Jurgen comments I was a bit worried how this baby would perform in 10-50%...

I have the battery switched out under waranty, there were some damaged cells.

With the new batt, my wife now get 35Km range out of it, but she has only half of my weight (50 instead of 100kg), and she's a very relaxed rider.

I haven't tested the range myself, as I now ride the IPS 151 aka T680+ all the time/

On Thursday, February 04, 2016 at 9:03 PM, THA said:

@Paddylaz @Jurgen I agree You both - perhaps 30% under Jurgen ends up to same voltage than 25% under me, but my batt is now at 32% (indoor): When I take it out (-4C), it drops to 24% in 5-10min. but Lhotz still runs 30kph on flat (tested maybe 200m - felt down hard, no protective gear on, ice under 2cm loose snow so studs didn't ever touch the ice - need a knobbeb tire instead of stock...). I'm happy, based on Jurgen comments I was a bit worried how this baby would perform in 10-50%...

I have the battery switched out under waranty, there were some damaged cells.

With the new batt, my wife now get 35Km range out of it, but she has only half of my weight (50 instead of 100kg), and she's a very relaxed rider.

I haven't tested the range myself, as I now ride the IPS 151 aka T680+ all the time/