Ben Kim Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 11 hours ago, alcatraz said: If you'd try to use a motor from a two wheeled vehicle on an euc you'd probably start off with a face plant. Torque is key to avoid faceplanting. I bet those small motors have insane power but very little (or sloppy) torque. I wonder too if they're internally geared. That can extend the rpm range significantly. Unfortunately they're unusable for euc's because of faceplanting risk. Torque delivery must be ensured at all times. The inertia at speed. Do you think that is what hinders the development of faster motors? Like the motors need to grow in size to maintain torque at those speeds, but the inertia of that larger motor makes for higher torque requirement. Vicious circle. Have you ever ridden a high powered scooter? They certainly have enough torque, enough to break traction. Have yet to hear of any EUC do that on pavement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrelwood Posted January 30, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 30, 2022 58 minutes ago, Ben Kim said: Have you ever ridden a high powered scooter? They certainly have enough torque, enough to break traction. Have yet to hear of any EUC do that on pavement. I don’t think the scooter would do that either if it had all the rider’s and the vehicle’s weight on one tire. Especially when driven from a controller that tries to avoid exactly that. Not to say that they aren’t very powerful though, just bumping for a comparison that’s a little more fair. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMA Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Ben Kim said: Have you ever ridden a high powered scooter? They certainly have enough torque, enough to break traction. Have yet to hear of any EUC do that on pavement. they have lot of power but the traction of a 10-11 inch is easy to brake compared to a 19' Edited January 30, 2022 by EMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 10 hours ago, Ben Kim said: Have you ever ridden a high powered scooter? They certainly have enough torque, enough to break traction. Have yet to hear of any EUC do that on pavement. I like to read your messages. I like people with an open mind. 👍 Going along with your point, the Mten3 has a really small motor. It can do 40km/h I'm told. (while balancing a rider) I wonder how the scooter motors differ from the mten3. If something is optimized for speed they usually sacrifice torque. But not in the case of the Mten3 apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asyndex Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 The reason scooter tires are spinning like crazy is that when you hit the throttle it basically gives the full power and also the tires are smaller compared to eucs. Also eucs are balanced on a single contact point and if it spins and loses grip you fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Kim Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 On 1/30/2022 at 10:37 AM, mrelwood said: I don’t think the scooter would do that either if it had all the rider’s and the vehicle’s weight on one tire. Especially when driven from a controller that tries to avoid exactly that. Not to say that they aren’t very powerful though, just bumping for a comparison that’s a little more fair. Fair, but @alcatraz incorrectly stated that scooters have poor torque and I'm simply stating it is not even close to being true at least in the case of the Weped SSR I've ridden. They will throw you sideways if you're reckless. They do this on 10x4.5" tires at that. These wheels already freespin close to 70 mph; there is no reason 55 can't be attained with a HS variant with a 60ish mph cutout. People are already pushing 52+ mph GPS (at the limit) on 100V Shermans/Monster Pros and I've yet to hear of a Monster Pro cutting out at high speed. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 I don't know but it's probably got something to do with the torque delivery. On scooters it can be sloppy as hell. On eucs it has to be very even, and available at all times. No matter what position the motor is in. Also, scooter motors could be geared internally. On eucs it's too risky to use geared motors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradox Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 Anybody else wondering why no sellers on AliExpress are selling this wheel yet? Not even for pre-ordering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whalesmash Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 27 minutes ago, Paradox said: Anybody else wondering why no sellers on AliExpress are selling this wheel yet? Not even for pre-ordering. It's the lunar new year for them over there, might all be on holiday. I'm sure they will start popping up when things return to schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Lämpel Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 On 2/2/2022 at 4:00 AM, alcatraz said: Also, scooter motors could be geared internally. On eucs it's too risky to use geared motors. The rockwheel GR12 and GR16 had a planet gear inside the wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 3 hours ago, Boris Lämpel said: The rockwheel GR12 and GR16 had a planet gear inside the wheel. Yes I know. Rockwheel is the exception. Weren't they known to have gear failures? The GT16 didn't have gears and that one sold better I think. I know they used to be the "performance kings" because of the gears. They could climb insane grades when other brands couldn't even come close. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMA Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 9 hours ago, Paradox said: Anybody else wondering why no sellers on AliExpress are selling this wheel yet? Not even for pre-ordering. should be out mid march 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercurio Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) Wheel rider store posted this on YouTube with a listing to their AliExpress shop: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003874581739.html US $3,013.54 € 2.599,00 ships from France! "Only 10 units left" but also The video has a comment: Quote I need to clarify that this new EUC 2022 model is not yet in stock and can be paid in advance or booked with a deposit. And the end of the listing mentions: Quote Expected send out by the end of March Oddly, their AliExpress page is called "EXTREMETECH Store" now Edited February 8, 2022 by supercurio 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradox Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 2 hours ago, supercurio said: Wheel rider store posted this on YouTube with a listing to their AliExpress shop: I did find it is two stores on AliExpress. Thanks! https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003870748814.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.601176c4DAsrM1&algo_pvid=f7b1afc7-e481-43a7-a51b-d348af0104ea&algo_exp_id=f7b1afc7-e481-43a7-a51b-d348af0104ea-28&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000027362908044"}&pdp_pi=-1%3B2849.0%3B-1%3B-1%40salePrice%3BUSD%3Bsearch-mainSearch https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003875541268.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.601176c4DAsrM1&algo_pvid=f7b1afc7-e481-43a7-a51b-d348af0104ea&algo_exp_id=f7b1afc7-e481-43a7-a51b-d348af0104ea-29&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000027369827147"}&pdp_pi=-1%3B2849.0%3B-1%3B-1%40salePrice%3BUSD%3Bsearch-mainSearch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Just a friendly reminder. If you are buying a wheel from Aliexpress.. Remember you are getting "warranty" that means nothing. Sure.. seller can tell you anything you wish to hear, but when wheel gets damaged or so.. Good Luck getting help from those sellers. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ben Kim Posted February 8, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Funky said: Just a friendly reminder. If you are buying a wheel from Aliexpress.. Remember you are getting "warranty" that means nothing. Sure.. seller can tell you anything you wish to hear, but when wheel gets damaged or so.. Good Luck getting help from those sellers. Even just 3-4 years ago, wheels had relatively low failure rates but nowadays I would not buy a wheel without warranty unless I was paying dealer price ($900-1000 under retail). 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Ben Kim said: Even just 3-4 years ago, wheels had relatively low failure rates but nowadays I would not buy a wheel without warranty unless I was paying dealer price ($900-1000 under retail). In old days items where made to last.. Now everything is made, so it breaks faster. (Companies need to sell things, by breaking faster they make more $$$) So stupid. And that's one point why i hate the world. As it goes to shit, more and more.. Edited February 8, 2022 by Funky 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 11 hours ago, Funky said: In old days items where made to last.. Now everything is made, so it breaks faster. (Companies need to sell things, by breaking faster they make more $$$) So stupid. And that's one point why i hate the world. As it goes to shit, more and more.. I wholeheartedly agree! Although, I aim my hatred towards society, and also towards humanity to some degree. The other parts of the world are actually pretty darn nice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradox Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 17 hours ago, Funky said: Now everything is made, so it breaks faster. Just Posted. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rawnei Posted February 9, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Paradox said: Just Posted. Wonder if this will make it rust like the Hero. 😐 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradox Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 5 minutes ago, Rawnei said: Wonder if this will make it rust like the Hero. 😐 We will only find out when the wheel gets into the hands of real buyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercurio Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 25 minutes ago, Rawnei said: Wonder if this will make it rust like the Hero. 😐 Yeah and as everybody highlighted when tearing down the Hero, if it has these hole for the wires to get in the controller box which would get humidity in, and hardly come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Maybe it's Gotway's recommended fire prevention strategy.... Member from Russia has posted about Nikola fire burning half of house down in the Smoke and Fire thread. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick McCutcheon Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 (edited) A new video from Lukas at Begode shows the master reaching 60mph on the dyno before cutting out/overleaning, meaning it would probably be best to not exceed 53-55ish mph cruising speed on this wheel to account for bumps or wind gusts, assuming the batteries are up to the task of maintaining that speed without sagging too low. Interesting how it starts at 100%, sags to 70% at top speed, and only returns to 90% after the test. Maybe it would return to 100 if they kept filming, but maybe it wouldn't. Unknown if this dyno can also simulate wind resistance at those speeds 🤔 However, the beep does start at 85kmh/~53mph (!!) which is crazy. @Chriull @supercurio I remember discussing overleans vs. cutouts recently, do you think this case is that of an overlean or cutout due to high speed? The wheel doesn't seem to tilt far forward enough to trigger the 45 degree shutoff angle, and it seems to begin braking before it has tilted forward very much. This is what I was originally concerned about, wheels removing power when the speed has gone what they feel is too high. However if this is indeed an overlean I'd be interested to know what makes you think so. Edited February 12, 2022 by Nick McCutcheon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chriull Posted February 12, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 12, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Nick McCutcheon said: A new video from Lukas at Begode shows the master reaching 60mph on the dyno before cutting out/overleaning, Seems to be a "normal lift cut off speed test"? The 80 kg load mentioned in the begonning seem to be just a static weight load on the axle and tire slightly increasing friction but not really burdening the motor. It's not mentioned if the test rig rolls have some resistance (brake, burden) or some noteworthy weight to accelerate beeing some burden for the motor? But 100 km/h seems a reasonable lift cut off speed for new wheels - or they already go faster? 7 hours ago, Nick McCutcheon said: Interesting how it starts at 100%, sags to 70% at top speed, and only returns to 90% after the test. Maybe it would return to 100 if they kept filming, but maybe it wouldn't. Li Ion cells have some kind of two step sag. So the voltage should come up again. Would be strange if the battery looses 10% of the capacity from one acceleration... 7 hours ago, Nick McCutcheon said: @Chriull @supercurio I remember discussing overleans vs. cutouts recently, do you think this case is that of an overlean or cutout due to high speed? Afaik every wheel cuts off the motor power once lift cut off speed is reached for some time. I'd guess exactly this happens in the video 7 hours ago, Nick McCutcheon said: The wheel doesn't seem to tilt far forward enough to trigger the 45 degree shutoff angle, and it seems to begin braking before it has tilted forward very much. An EUC will only break if one leans back, or on this rig one pulls the wheel back. 7 hours ago, Nick McCutcheon said: This is what I was originally concerned about, wheels removing power when the speed has gone what they feel is too high. As written above that's some measure from every wheel at the absolute maximum speed possible without load if held for some seconds. 7 hours ago, Nick McCutcheon said: However if this is indeed an overlean I'd be interested to know what makes you think so. There are not too much reason for cut offs: - some component failed like a fried mosfet. Behode most likely won't publish a speed test showing this. - overtemp alarm and shutoff would imho take longer and no readon again for begode showing this. - si this shut off after lift cut of speed reached stays as last reason? Imho. This max speed reached is an overlean (with wheel cutting of after some short time) Edited February 12, 2022 by Chriull 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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