Inmotion V12 High Torque edition

[supercurio]

2 hours ago, Paul g said:

I knew that when braking, especially when braking hard as you describe, is when wobbles are most frequent. When I’ll have the chance I’ll test that.

Yes you can train yourself to shift your weight down instead of back when braking.

I had do do that after learning on the V10F which never ever wobbled for me when braking even with the worse technique, and moving onto the 16X which seemed very wobbly in the beginning.

Now on the Sherman, I just lower myself which automatically brakes, since you have to bend your knees do lower yourself down anyway.
I only realized that when seeing myself in video like at this point in time.

[Paul g]

On 12/29/2021 at 9:41 PM, supercurio said:

Yes you can train yourself to shift your weight down instead of back when braking.

I had do do that after learning on the V10F which never ever wobbled for me when braking even with the worse technique, and moving onto the 16X which seemed very wobbly in the beginning.

Now on the Sherman, I just lower myself which automatically brakes, since you have to bend your knees do lower yourself down anyway.
I only realized that when seeing myself in video like at this point in time.

I could not notice the wobbles in Sherman. V12 gives real wobble experiences  . I hit the brakes on mine while sited, and still wobbled, and I never went over 27km/h, screen display, which must have been more realistically around 23-25km/h.
This discussion waked up the engineer in me and realised the wobbles appear when there is an elasticity present, like there are bicycles that are more rigid, and others that wobble more, the same with motorbikes. I just opened the V 12 the other day and realised that is not much structure in place, except plastic, therefore no wonder we have wobbles. Man, there is a lot of work to be done to change the way these things are produced before we can say they’re ok. Definitely the producers must start  designing and testing their wheels so they have enough structural rigidity that are practically wobble free (or almost unnoticeable by the rider). Wobbles are part of the dangerous characteristics that plaque EUCs, that make them unstable and dangerous, and I think would be a good idea to add it to our standard of quality list.

[supercurio]

@Paul g gotcha.

What's your experience with significantly higher and lower tire pressure? Does it affect the oscillation frequency and intensity?

On my Sherman I had a City Pro earlier which had intense tramlining, and oscillations occured easily when moderate/high speed cornering as soon as the road was not smooth. However propension for braking wobble was very low.

The tire I have now has no tramlining at all an is completely unaffected by road camber or road irregularity when cornering at any speed. It is a bit more prone to brake wobbles, with poor technique (still good)

So I'm guessing that the shape or profile of the tire (which also depends on the air pressure) has a significant effect regarding oscillations. For cornering and breaking.

What do you think?

On the V12 there's something that's not elastic at all: the attachment of the wheel to the pedals. The body is more rigid than most as well probably.

[Paul g]

@supercurio, I have yet no idea about the experience at high pressure, but I will test. I was to afraid to ride at high pressure (the one recommended by the manufacturer) because I barely learned to ride it. And here I’ll have to explain my self a bit. Two days ago (my third day of use of the unicycle) I pumped the pressure close to the max recommended and I was planning to ride like that this time, but as soon as I jumped on it I was terrified by the absolute bollocks instability/manoeuvrability it had, because I barely learned to ride it the other day. Man, this thing is like quick silver under your feet. So I had to lower the pressure to one more manageable for me at that time. Then I went with it to a place close to my house here, in London, named Stratford Olympic Stadium Park, where there are large horizontal flat grounds, and because I went there after dark, I had it mostly for myself. So I wanted to learn to proper control the EUC with my feet, because until then I could not manage to fine tune my movements. The culprit was the fact I did not know yet how to hold tight the euc between my legs. But as soon as I got there and started to carve on it I’ve got the trick quite quickly. It’s very important as a beginner to have large flat spaces to practice and nobody and nothing around you (cars, trees, etc.),  because you can concentrate on the important thing, which is riding the euc, and not on “oh, I have to take care to stay away from those cars, or, oh, those people there, I have to stay away from them, etc.). So, after several hours spent there, I decided to head home. I was at 50% battery, and left my home with 90%. On the way home, while I was riding on a very quite street(nobody there, no human being, no car) I could hear a ticking repetitive sound coming from the wheel, so I stopped and checked the tyre: it was a drawing pin. I thought maybe it’s very short and didn’t reach the tube, so I pulled it out. As soon as I did it I heard a hiss- flat! I had to carry the 30 kg wheel to the closest bus station, which wasn’t too close at all , and luckily, the driver didn’t say anything to me (they’re banned now on all London public transport) and let me get in. So now I’m waiting for my repair kit from Amazon and for a China expedited tube, which one will arrive faster? Yeah, the third day of riding, and had a flat. 
    I don’t want to digress to much, so coming back the subject of wobbles, man, I must admit, this subject is more complex than it seems at a first glance, and even seems deterring at times. You have experience with the different types of tyres and, obviously, with riding. Thanks for giving some very precious info. You were riding quite fast in your video, I don’t know what pressure you maintain usually in your tyre(?). As for my experience, I can’t wait to try it at high pressure this time. I will stay at very low speed though, fully geared. I don’t want to end up in ER.

[Paradox]

Have you tried putting slime in your inner tube?  It is meant to seal small leaks like this. 

[Paradox]

20 minutes ago, Paul g said:

it was a drawing pin. I thought maybe it’s very short and didn’t reach the tube, so I pulled it out. As soon as I did it I heard a hiss- flat!

Tire slime is a quick fix.  It may save you the trouble of an inner tube change.

[Paul g]

40 minutes ago, Paradox said:

Tire slime is a quick fix.  It may save you the trouble of an inner tube change.

Yeah, I will use after I fix this tyre. I already have a bottle, but didn’t use it, since I wasn’t sure if I’ll send the wheel back or not. But now I decided I’ll keep it. Thanks.

[Paradox]

Replacing the inner tube is a difficult task.  Patching the tube if you can do this without removing the tire sounds easier.  I think the slime can fix an existing puncture.  I have it in my tires.  There have been a few threads here about slime.  Several videos on YT also.

 

 

[Paul g]

8 hours ago, supercurio said:

@Paul g gotcha.

What's your experience with significantly higher and lower tire pressure? Does it affect the oscillation frequency and intensity?

On my Sherman I had a City Pro earlier which had intense tramlining, and oscillations occured easily when moderate/high speed cornering as soon as the road was not smooth. However propension for braking wobble was very low.

The tire I have now has no tramlining at all an is completely unaffected by road camber or road irregularity when cornering at any speed. It is a bit more prone to brake wobbles, with poor technique (still good)

So I'm guessing that the shape or profile of the tire (which also depends on the air pressure) has a significant effect regarding oscillations. For cornering and breaking.

What do you think?

On the V12 there's something that's not elastic at all: the attachment of the wheel to the pedals. The body is more rigid than most as well probably.

May I ask you what tyre you use?

I also found an interesting YT explanation of the difference between radial and bias tyres: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJJxSlls-tA .

Edit:

I wonder if you combine a bias with a crown belt of a radial, wouldn’t that bring the best of the both worlds.  According to them , a radial type is the best for high/sport use.

Edited January 1, 2022 by Paul g

[supercurio]

4 hours ago, Paul g said:

May I ask you what tyre you use?

I also found an interesting YT explanation of the difference between radial and bias tyres: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJJxSlls-tA .

Edit:

I wonder if you combine a bias with a crown belt of a radial, wouldn’t that bring the best of the both worlds.  According to them , a radial type is the best for high/sport use.

CST C6004 on Sheman right now, I love it because it's immune to tramlining, the wheel fighting to stay upright, anything going against the rider's control really.

On the Sheman wide rim even the Kenda knobby wants to stay upright, until it falls to the side above a certain angle.

So far it seems that all the 16" off-road tires fitting in Nikola / 16X / V12 users found had serious compromises with handling, so much that everyone who tried went back to a street tire quickly after.

That's why if the dual-sport knobby we've seen installed on the V12 HT is as good as the Kenda K272, CST C186 or Duro HF307 for 18" wheels it's gonna be awesome for many existing wheels out here, which couldn't compare in muddy terrain, snow and some technical trails.

It would bring a new life to a few 16X I believe, which is already really good with low end torque but misses a good knobby.

Edited January 1, 2022 by supercurio

[Eucner]

4 hours ago, Paul g said:

I also found an interesting YT explanation of the difference between radial and bias tyres: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJJxSlls-tA .

In EUC you want a long contact patch bias tire to hold down speed wobbles.

[Kekafuch]

13 hours ago, Paradox said:

Replacing the inner tube is a difficult task.  Patching the tube if you can do this without removing the tire sounds easier.  I think the slime can fix an existing puncture.  I have it in my tires.  There have been a few threads here about slime.  Several videos on YT also.

 

 

My experience with Armadilloz in a tube is that it’s dangerous. It holds air and then releases it fast. Slime is good for a long trip safety measure but I wouldn’t count on it. 
 

we need to inspect the tube if there is pressure drop and make a patch. 

[Paul g]

@ParadoxI decided to give it a try, as you suggested. I was afraid I might not be able to patch the tube after I use the slime, but I guess I don’t even need to think about it much since it will stay on the inside of the tube and should not bother me as I work to patch it on the outside. This is my first time when I use the slime, so I’m learning. I guess the problem of cleaning the slime would only arise with the tubeless tyres. The hole is quite small, so I hope it will block it. I know it is not a permanent solution, but I’ll see if it works. Until now it held the pressure well. I also managed to mount the ClarkPads on. I put them on Velcro so I can move them easily, but I must say I don’t like them at all. They’re too thick in the middle. They throw my legs out from the pedals so much so that I feel half of my feet hang out in the air, as I have the InMotion hex pedals installed, which are narrower. Of course they’re not half out, only 2cm/1in/, but it feels very unsafe and uncomfortable. I hate I spent so much money on something so useless. The middle part of the pads should be much more thinner or even be excluded altogether. The grizzla pads seem to be better made and fit the need.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Paul g

[Paul g]

@supercurio I want to go off-road, so it would be perfect for what I need as well.

[joeepark]

I just got word from ewheels that the inmotion v12 HT will be selling around March and being delivered to USA around May. Due to a recall for current inmotion v12 anyone who has a preorder for the v12 will have the option to opt for the HT or the HS in May if they buy from ewheels. 

[nosamplesplease]

35 minutes ago, joeepark said:

I just got word from ewheels that the inmotion v12 HT will be selling around March and being delivered to USA around May. Due to a recall for current inmotion v12 anyone who has a preorder for the v12 will have the option to opt for the HT or the HS in May if they buy from ewheels. 

Nothing better than good news. 

[Paul g]

On 1/1/2022 at 11:00 PM, supercurio said:

CST C6004 on Sheman right now, I love it because it's immune to tramlining, the wheel fighting to stay upright, anything going against the rider's control really.

On the Sheman wide rim even the Kenda knobby wants to stay upright, until it falls to the side above a certain angle.

So far it seems that all the 16" off-road tires fitting in Nikola / 16X / V12 users found had serious compromises with handling, so much that everyone who tried went back to a street tire quickly after.

That's why if the dual-sport knobby we've seen installed on the V12 HT is as good as the Kenda K272, CST C186 or Duro HF307 for 18" wheels it's gonna be awesome for many existing wheels out here, which couldn't compare in muddy terrain, snow and some technical trails.

It would bring a new life to a few 16X I believe, which is already really good with low end torque but misses a good knobby.

I’ve pumped the wheel at the minimum recommended pressure 2.5 atm as I’ve gained more trust riding it and realised how badly designed is this tyre. It is trapezoidal almost with a flat strip on top and two steep lateral sides: CST C 1488-425. I don’t know about other tyres but this one is horrible. Theoretically the rounder the profile the better the control of the wheel, at slow speeds at least. It also tramlines.

 

 

 

[mhpr262]

With motorcycle tires at least this kind of tire with a pointy cross section exists to provide a bigger contact patch at high lean angles, and to make the tire more willing to go into the lean. Not sure if it is the same with EUCs.

I gotta say I had the CST 1488 as OEM tire on both my V10F and my V11 and I got and still get along just fine with them. I had to swap the 1488 against some Chao Yang tire (the one with the Nike swoosh in the profile) because it was worn out and no other tire was to be found anywhere and I dont like the new tire at all. It feels really nervous and unstablecompared to the old one. I was very disappointed for the first couple of kilometers, then I kinda got used to it. I'd switch back to the 1488 in a heartbeat though.

[Khazik]

23 hours ago, joeepark said:

Due to a recall for current inmotion v12 anyone who has a preorder for the v12 will have the option to opt for the HT or the HS in May if they buy from ewheels. 

Holdup, actual recall? So I can send mine in for a HT?

[lazybones99]

What are the chances they add the wider rim and beefier mosfets to the speed version?

There are more tire versions with the 3” rim and I would venture to guess that baby Sherman tire will help with stability at higher speeds (same as with the Sherman)

[RagingGrandpa]

On 1/4/2022 at 2:57 PM, Khazik said:

Holdup, actual recall?

There is official instruction to check your V12 controller using a brief test, and if it fails they authorize controller replacement. (Not whole-EUC replacement.)

[supercurio]

V12 HT seen demoed with a new tire with really chunky knobs, and an orange color theme not only limited to the rim but reaching shell decorations as well

Wheel Rider Store also published the same video footage here, and added a listing on AliExpress:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003875025180.html

€ 1.999,00
US $2,317.84
Shipped from warehouse in France.

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by supercurio

[supercurio]

Could someone help tracking down this tire?

The Wheel Rider Store listing give a good look at it, but not at the reference:

Dimensions: 3.00 - 12
I can't see the brand, but the pattern is interesting, and its riding behaviour has a chance to be alright with these supporting knobs on the side.

[supercurio]

And anybody can find that one as well?
The clearance with the V12 shell seems very tight here tho.

Source on YouTube

 

Dimensions shows as 3.00-12 too.

And a good view at the pattern here:

 

[Marc Roberts]

Want this wheel. Offroad use you'd think would weed out cutouts thick and fast if it's prone to them?!