Begode EX20S 3600wh: 100V, suspension, 104lb

[Mantraguy]

On 12/13/2022 at 4:12 AM, ZweemZ said:

that shock, you say it has compression adjustment, do you mean the nut that tightens the coil? because all i see is that lever, that seems to be the rebound adjustment only, maybe im confused

The shock I ordered combines compression damping and rebound damping together - which is probably easier to do when designing the shock than controlling one or the other as it's a single valve that would work in both directions. I'm not sure how useful that would be if you're a heavier rider and use a lot of spring weight, but for a lightweight like me it should work well since I don't need a lot of rebound damping for the smaller spring weight.

The nut that tightens the coil is preload adjustment - you're just pre-loading the spring (applying compression to it at the fully extended state) so that it's a bit stiffer. Compression damping has a similar effect - it makes the shock more resistant to compression at full extension (and along the length of the travel), but not quite the same. Preload makes the spring stiffer to begin with, while compression damping makes it slower to compress. By comparison, rebound damping increases the resistance to going from a compressed state to extension. If you think of a spring that's been compressed, when you let go it wants to expand quickly but there's a big jerk at the end when it's fully extended. Rebound damping slows the extension so you don't have that big jerk when it reaches full extension after being compressed. A stronger spring (higher spring rate) requires more rebound damping to avoid that 'jerk' at full extension (when it 'tops out'). Hope that makes sense...

[Mantraguy]

On 12/13/2022 at 4:23 AM, EMA said:

EX20 has a good linkage, i friend of mine measured 40mm of shock travel, not perfect but still really good

I'll try to measure mine more accurately once the replacement shock arrives and I take it all apart. If it's around 40mm of shock travel for the full travel of the suspension, that seems fine as it means you'll never bottom out the shock itself. I'm not sure what protection there is (if any - probably not) at full compression so I can't say if there's a risk to damaging anything if you bottom out too hard - I'll have a closer look when the shock is off and I can see what restricts the travel at full compression.

[Ser_skele]

Does anybody know what the different led-modes are in eucworld? I cant see any difference happening between them. 

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Ser_skele said:

Does anybody know what the different led-modes are in eucworld? I cant see any difference happening between them. 

Same here. I assumed my wheel didn't support them.

[Unipilot69]

The led modes are for the wheels with rgb leds. RS, MS series, Monster Pro, and most of the Gotway wheels utilize the settings. All of the Begode wheels now don't have rgb lights. The tail lights aren't changeable unless modded.

[Ser_skele]

50 minutes ago, Unipilot69 said:

The led modes are for the wheels with rgb leds. RS, MS series, Monster Pro, and most of the Gotway wheels utilize the settings. All of the Begode wheels now don't have rgb lights. The tail lights aren't changeable unless modded.

Good to know this. For another question, does anybody know how/why/under what circumstances the tail light changes colour? I'm assuming it provides battery status visually. When I got the wheel it was violet with 30% charge and now that its full it is green. 

[Ben Kim]

14 hours ago, Ser_skele said:

Good to know this. For another question, does anybody know how/why/under what circumstances the tail light changes colour? I'm assuming it provides battery status visually. When I got the wheel it was violet with 30% charge and now that its full it is green. 

Green = 100%, blue = 80% yellow = 60% purple = 40% red = 20% battery level

sending the wheel on green or blue is fine. Yellow and below exercise caution! 

[ZweemZ]

On 12/3/2022 at 12:02 AM, Ben Kim said:

Turns out I needed to download Bluefy to connect to the wheel, 

looks like I have the same firmware as everyone else. 

Sonny and I upgraded to "the latest Firmware," but he pointed out, and it was true for me as well, that we check what version we have installed, using this web portal thing, it still says GW2003001. Have you, or anyone checked, to see what version it says after using the begode app to update the firmware to GW2003002? does the web portal report GW2003002 for anyone?

EUC-Dashboard web portal thingy link:
https://freestyl3r.github.io/euc-dash/begode.html

Edited December 30, 2022 by ZweemZ

[Ben Kim]

10 hours ago, ZweemZ said:

Sonny and I upgraded to "the latest Firmware," but he pointed out, and it was true for me as well, that we check what version we have installed, using this web portal thing, it still says GW2003001. Have you, or anyone checked, to see what version it says after using the begode app to update the firmware to GW2003002? does the web portal report GW2003002 for anyone?

EUC-Dashboard web portal thingy link:
https://freestyl3r.github.io/euc-dash/begode.html

Mine starts with CF now. 

[ZweemZ]

On 12/30/2022 at 9:08 PM, Ben Kim said:

Mine starts with CF now. 

Hrm.... interesting.

So I was told, that it could be that i had it resting on the kickstand while updating, and that its supposed to be updated while resting on its side, which was news to me, anyone else know of this? never heard of it.

That didnt help at all, infact, when I did that, updating never finished, the loading screen on my phone froze at zero, and the wheel started to beep every two seconds and the fan was on full blast. I thought I bricked it. thankfully, after closing the app clearing my cashe, and restarting the wheel, I attempted to update it and it worked, but still says GW3003001, which is still annoying. apparently you told me it has better performance, 200amp limit increased to 250amps, so I have yet to experience that.

[ZweemZ]

doccumenting an issue that myself and another owner have experienced.

There has been an issue for us, with what seems to be the 12v board, where the tail light would blink red, and the headlight would stop working. this has happened to not just myself. I have not pinpointed the exact cause but a fellow owner susspects it to be an instability with the bluetooth module, because it happened for me when someone else logged onto my wheel. I'm not too convinced, I think it has to do with cross signal voltages having to do with this all metal design. It eventually randomly resolved itself "on it's own," after riding about 2 miles the next day, but I tried firmware updates, and examining every component, and messing with settings (PWM particularly) and nothing seemed to work immediatly.

The issue, as I said, occured after someone had connected to my wheel with Darknessbot, I normally use EUC World, we road around for a little while, and shortly after we parted, Im at my door, and I notice my lights wouldn't turn off, I power down and back on again and it is blinking and theres no ability to use the headlight. The person who connected to my wheel, was using darknessbot, and my paranoia thinks that they have all sorts of crazy automatic PWM manipulation settings that program your wheel automatically, all speculation. to further fuel that conspiracy, A fellow ex2s owner that I know susspects that this wheel doesnt have encoded in its firmware the ability to process the PWM quarries that these apps are doing, and suggests to not have any option for "PWM" enabled.

so this blinking red light issue happened tonight on the other owner's wheel, randomly, they called to ask If I connected to their wheel, but i had not. Eventually, 20 min after reporting the issue, if fixed its self and was back to normal.

this reminds me of the 12v board issues you see on the earlier gotway wheels, like, the 12v board will stop functioning in some way temporarally. Ive been told they over heat and decide its best to temporarally shut down, so no lights, music for a bit then all the sudden its back with seemingly no explanation. Perhaps this has nothing to do with anything I suggest, I know its not heat because it persists after shutting down for hours, plus this is the coldest running wheel of all time, but perhaps when it feels unstable in any slightest of ways it shuts down and waits. It may have to do with the fact that the all metal design has the potential to direct current from one place to another, 5v signal current, 12v current, and 100v currents all over the place, and theres not much insulating everything. again all speculation, just trying to make sense of thse unexplained self resolving issues

[ZweemZ]

Susspension Upgrade: After trying a few different coil over shocks, I decided to take GoGeorgeGo's suggestion, not for the DNM budget shock, which im sure is nice too, but for the high end suggestion, a $329 Fox Float Shock (there are higher end ones I know). I got the 200mm version to kind of put a little pre-load on, and it has a more appropriate travel than the 190.

I was a bit skeptical, but I had seen that it is covered under amazon prime's no questions asked returns. I dont regret it at all! I prefere it over the coil over, oil filled shocks that marty featured on his YT. It completes this wheel, it really deserves this upgrade. I am 150lbs, I have mine pumped to a little over 300lbs, Fast compression and little rebound it's perfect for midtown manhattan. It feels as smooth and responsive as the coil over shock but its got that progressive resistance that gives air shocks that "input feedback" advantage.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B095F6NHBM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Keep in mind, the 200mm version required me to get creative and remove a third bolt of the linkage (top rear), to allow the shock to be installed in its respective 2 bolts, then its much easier to "struggle" to put back on the 3rd bolt, rather than before, compressing the shock that extra mm, is much easier using the leverage by the 3rd bolt that I removed. Also The shock comes with some compressed air in it, let the air out completly, but you also wont beable to compress it farther than 200, to 190mm without some descent resistance, even with the air totally removed, you need to do the leverage technique i described by installing the 3rd bolt, the top rear bolt, last, and it may require you to use wood worker's clamps to from the linkages to the frame of the wheel to leverage parts of the linkage.

Also, the stock plastic eyelet inserts that come with the shock, the inner diameter is 12.7 for whatever reason, which is 0.7mm larger than the linkage rods. So It needs to have the plastic eyelet inserts replaced with something, a tube, spacer, whatever, that has an inner diameter of 12mm, to fit the rod, and an outer diameter of 18mm to fit the shock. It is hard to find tbh, I wanted plastic, but could only find two listings on amazon, and it was for metal tubing, and i didn't trust my own measurements, and that it would have the exact tolerances, I ended up finding the below link to what seem to be the perfect fit, 2 inserts with shipping should be about $7-8. I bought some extras for the locals around here if needed hmu.

https://www.boltdepot.com/Product-Details.aspx?product=13788

I liked the Marty Shock, and tried the 650lb coil at first, then I tried the 1500lb later. I suspect a 1200 lb or a 1000lb would be best for myself (150lb). At the time the 1000lb(recommended) was sold out, so I got the 650lb, bad choice, felt amazing over stuff like cobblestone, but would bottom out on inch deep manhole covers. The 1500lb was a little too stiff for me, im 150lbs, it was to bottom it out with enough force, not sure if it was the actual shocks full potential stroke bottoming out or the coil itself doesn't even have enough negative space, so it actually is compressing in on itself. The coil over shocks are great a low budget option, but lack versatility, you need to install a coil that you think would serve you under your most common riding conditions, and you will encounter situations that it won't perform well on, the travel resistance is linear and that's where it is lacking compared to the bubbly smooth feel of a quality air shock. 

[Ser_skele]

On 1/6/2023 at 1:08 PM, ZweemZ said:

doccumenting an issue that myself and another owner have experienced.

There has been an issue for us, with what seems to be the 12v board, where the tail light would blink red, and the headlight would stop working. this has happened to not just myself. I have not pinpointed the exact cause but a fellow owner susspects it to be an instability with the bluetooth module, because it happened for me when someone else logged onto my wheel. I'm not too convinced, I think it has to do with cross signal voltages having to do with this all metal design. It eventually randomly resolved itself "on it's own," after riding about 2 miles the next day, but I tried firmware updates, and examining every component, and messing with settings (PWM particularly) and nothing seemed to work immediatly.

The issue, as I said, occured after someone had connected to my wheel with Darknessbot, I normally use EUC World, we road around for a little while, and shortly after we parted, Im at my door, and I notice my lights wouldn't turn off, I power down and back on again and it is blinking and theres no ability to use the headlight. The person who connected to my wheel, was using darknessbot, and my paranoia thinks that they have all sorts of crazy automatic PWM manipulation settings that program your wheel automatically, all speculation. to further fuel that conspiracy, A fellow ex2s owner that I know susspects that this wheel doesnt have encoded in its firmware the ability to process the PWM quarries that these apps are doing, and suggests to not have any option for "PWM" enabled.

so this blinking red light issue happened tonight on the other owner's wheel, randomly, they called to ask If I connected to their wheel, but i had not. Eventually, 20 min after reporting the issue, if fixed its self and was back to normal.

this reminds me of the 12v board issues you see on the earlier gotway wheels, like, the 12v board will stop functioning in some way temporarally. Ive been told they over heat and decide its best to temporarally shut down, so no lights, music for a bit then all the sudden its back with seemingly no explanation. Perhaps this has nothing to do with anything I suggest, I know its not heat because it persists after shutting down for hours, plus this is the coldest running wheel of all time, but perhaps when it feels unstable in any slightest of ways it shuts down and waits. It may have to do with the fact that the all metal design has the potential to direct current from one place to another, 5v signal current, 12v current, and 100v currents all over the place, and theres not much insulating everything. again all speculation, just trying to make sense of thse unexplained self resolving issues

!! 

I've had the same problem since pretty much the beginning. Front Light might not tuen off or on at all. Sometimes while wheelin the thing a few meters indoors and then turning it off the Front Lights would flash quickly. Now they've been Complete dead for a few days. Wont turn on via button or euc world. No darknessbot Connections here, just my one euc.world Phone. Haven't noticed the rear Light acting up 

 

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Ser_skele said:

Haven't noticed the rear Light acting up 

I think it's the same for all the Master-following wheels until they swap the satellite chip that controls the low voltage stuff. Mine has been flakey like that since I had it, mostly it's just the display that doesn't work initially, but when it's extra cold, the headlight goes next, and starts flashing, or can't decide whether it is on or off, and just once for me it was down at near 0C and the rear light didn't come on either until I had warmed the machine up to 19 or so...most of the time the rear light is unaffected. Not sure if it's any different on the EX20 or not though.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Cerbera

[Paradox]

7 hours ago, Ser_skele said:

I've had the same problem since pretty much the beginning. Front Light might not tuen off or on at all. Sometimes while wheelin the thing a few meters indoors and then turning it off the Front Lights would flash quickly. Now they've been Complete dead for a few days. Wont turn on via button or euc world. No darknessbot Connections here, just my one euc.world Phone. Haven't noticed the rear Light acting up 

This happened to me on Tuesday.  I fixed it by using EucDash and turning on the lights through the app.  Both headlighs and tail lights now work.

https://freestyl3r.github.io/euc-dash/begode.html

[Mantraguy]

I thought I'd share a few notes after finally getting a longer ride in on my EX20S (C30 / HS version).  For starters:

On 12/30/2022 at 7:12 AM, ZweemZ said:

...using this web portal thing, it still says GW2003001. Have you, or anyone checked, to see what version it says after using the begode app to update the firmware to GW2003002? does the web portal report GW2003002 for anyone?

EUC-Dashboard web portal thingy link:
https://freestyl3r.github.io/euc-dash/begode.html

I updated my firmware to 3002 shortly after receiving the wheel, but I just checked using the above link and it does indeed show the old firmware version (3001). I then connected with EUC world instead, and it shows the same. I can't help but think that it's just a line item in the actual firmware code that was not updated to 3002, even though the file name that was used when updating was indeed 3002. Does that make sense?

I bought a new shock for my EX20S: it's not the DNM but is a similar (and similarly cheap!) one made by EXA Form, called the 382RL (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004431891884.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.23.62d01802W7GewQ). It's a coil-over shock, and I got the 190mm x 50mm version with a 1000lb spring. I'm a light rider; my riding weight is probably around 150lbs including gear and a small pack. Installation of the shock was fairly simple with the spring preload backed right off, but that leads me to my only real complaint about this shock: the preload adjuster knob is just about impossible to turn after you've taken up all the slack. It's a knurled ring but the detents are not coarse enough to use any sort of tool to grab them. I tried various bike tools and even tried designing and 3d printing some custom ideas but nothing would grip it well enough to turn; everything just slipped off. I thought about cutting some sharper corners into the knob but didn't want to damage the finish unnecessarily. Finally I had some success by using a rubber mallet with a piece of scrap 1/8" Lexan against the knob (I didn't want to damage the knob), but it was slow going. I finally got it about 3 turns in and I think that's enough for mostly road use.

Performance-wise, it's a little more supple on smaller bumps than the stock Begode air shock (honestly, I was expecting a bigger difference), although I did bottom out once going off a particularly high curb. I do have about 20mm of sag (25-30% or so) with my current setting and rider weight, and I like it that way. I don't do really technical trails but do ride some smaller drops and lots of roots etc., so I may need to try to get more preload in before doing any of those trails. The 1000lb spring seems just about perfect for my weight. The interesting feature of this shock (382RL) is that it uses a single lever to adjust both compression damping and rebound damping at the same time. So, pushing it all the way in one direction makes it a little pogo-stick-like, but fully the other direction effectively locks the shock almost completely. So, you can play with it a bit without having to mess with the preload. So for more trails, I may just turn that up a click or two so I can reduce the chances of bottoming out on larger obstacles. I'll try that and play with it a bit more before I decide if I like it better than the stock shock. I do like having more sag than I was getting with the air shock, and it's definitely smoother on rough roads although I haven't played much with air pressure in the stock unit. Maybe some things to try later.

As for range, I finally rode to tilt-back and can confirm that this occurs at 72.0v which is 3.0v/cell (much better IMO than the ~3.15v/cell on the Sherman, or 3.25v/cell on the previous firmware version). I should mention that I'm not an overly aggressive or fast rider; I like long all-day rides but also lots variety between secondary (residential) roads, paved and gravel trails, single-track trails, country chip-seal (rough asphalt) roads, and even the occasional highway. My average cruising speed is generally around 40km/h (25mph), and I seldom exceed 60km/h (38mph). With all the traffic lights and stop signs, my overall average moving speed is usually around 27-29 km/h (~18mph). The first day, I did a long out-and-back ride of 118km (~74 miles) which I ended at 83.6 volts. Rather than charging, I left it and did a short ride the next day to see how much farther I could go on the remaining battery. I got about 12km (7.5 miles) before getting the first set of warning beeps at ~76.5v up a fairly steep hill, and finally got tiltback at about 20km (12.5 miles) while accelerating up a gradual hill where it dipped to around 72.0 v. I called it done at that point, but I think I could have gotten a few more km out of it at low speed. Overall, my total range was 139km (87 miles) including ~1650 metres (5400 ft) of elevation gain. Average moving speed overall was 26.6km/h (16.6mph). Charging back to full, the battery took 3493Wh - surprisingly good for a wheel with a stated capacity of 3600Wh!

In summary, I think I'll get similar range to my Sherman (3rd gen, not the Max) despite the 25lb weight difference, when riding at the same sort of speed and acceleration etc. The suspension just means I can ride everything faster, but that comes at the expense of range so I'll probably carry a charger a little more often with this wheel. I just wonder when I'll ever ride the Sherman again. ;-)

 

[Paradox]

Anybody load Freestyler's dynamic pwm tiltback firmware available through EucWorld? 

[Mantraguy]

5 hours ago, Paradox said:

Anybody load Freestyler's dynamic pwm tiltback firmware available through EucWorld? 

Not yet, but I may play around with it some time. My top speed so far is a paltry 61.8km/h (~38.6mph) - I'm not a fast rider - but I was surprised to hear a 'low safety margin' message at that speed. I assume I can safely ignore that message for at least another 10km/h, on flat ground with 70+% battery...

On another note, I found that I wasn't really able to use the stock power pads very well, as the 'gap' between the front and rear pads is quite large so I found I wasn't even moving my leg back far enough to hit the back pads under braking. Plus, they were already getting slightly chewed up from dropping the wheel on trails. I like the look of them though - the shape seems to suit the wheel, and they're quite comfortable. So, I copied the basic shape in Fusion 360 and printed seperate front and rear pads from TPU, which is just as squishy but a little more durable than the stock pads. I did have to make a fairing to attach them to, but now they're much more customizable (fore/aft and height, independently for both front and rear pads). They're comfy and still look good (IMO). 

[Ser_skele]

11 hours ago, Paradox said:

Anybody load Freestyler's dynamic pwm tiltback firmware available through EucWorld? 

I have it directly from mr freestyler, I believe it is not available through other channels? Cant really say much yet since it is winter and I dont feel comfortable pushing those limits currently. Will report back upon spring times

[Paradox]

7 hours ago, Ser_skele said:

I have it directly from mr freestyler, I believe it is not available through other channels? Cant really say much yet since it is winter and I dont feel comfortable pushing those limits currently. Will report back upon spring times

It is now available on EucWorld.  The latest update of the app adds firmware updates both custom and stock. 

[Ser_skele]

Today I disassembled my wheel a bit and was pleasantly surprised To find all the batteries To be connected in parallel. For some reason I had the though that it was 2s2p but nope. This brings a nice level of redundancy in my opinion. Although I cant understand the xt60 going To the mobo when there are xt90s at battery side 

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Ser_skele said:

Today I disassembled my wheel a bit and was pleasantly surprised To find all the batteries To be connected in parallel. For some reason I had the though that it was 2s2p but nope. This brings a nice level of redundancy in my opinion. Although I cant understand the xt60 going To the mobo when there are xt90s at battery side 

Interesting...

[Mantraguy]

Hi all, I've got a small issue with my EX20 which has been there since new. Does anyone else's EX20 do this? (See video). Powered on, if I rock it back and forth, there's a bit of wiggle or movement and a clunking noise. It's as if there's movement in the frame before the torque of the wheel is applied. The motherboard and all external bolts seem tight; I haven't tried getting into other bolts by removing battery packs etc. I just wanted to see if anyone else's wheel does this, and if it's 'normal' for the EX20. My Sherman (OG, V3) and Tesla V2 don't do anything like this.

 

[Whalesmash]

11 minutes ago, Mantraguy said:

Hi all, I've got a small issue with my EX20 which has been there since new. Does anyone else's EX20 do this? (See video). Powered on, if I rock it back and forth, there's a bit of wiggle or movement and a clunking noise. It's as if there's movement in the frame before the torque of the wheel is applied. The motherboard and all external bolts seem tight; I haven't tried getting into other bolts by removing battery packs etc. I just wanted to see if anyone else's wheel does this, and if it's 'normal' for the EX20. My Sherman (OG, V3) and Tesla V2 don't do anything like this.

 

This might help. The suspension on these open frames is pretty sloppy though, there's only so much that can be adjusted and there's more than one place that the slop can come from.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Whalesmash

[Mantraguy]

55 minutes ago, Whalesmash said:

This might help. The suspension on these open frames is pretty sloppy though, there's only so much that can be adjusted and there's more than one place that the slop can come from.

I don't see any adjustment screws like that on my EX20...