puntofato Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Greetings EU people My name is Jim from Greece, I would like to share my experience. Couple of months ago I bought an X3 clone with a "132 Wh" sticker on it, but a 88Wh battery on the instruction manual. I thought I should learn to ride on a cheap thing and smash it without really caring about it before upgrading to a better model. Anyway, with one hour of practice a day just after work I managed to ride it with some confidence within a week ( don't be rough on me I am almost 40years old not a kid). By learning I mean being able to start it and turn without needing to grab on to something. I am still learning and will keep on learning. I am not the best balanced person in no way...but still everybody stares at me like I am an alien or something! The first problem I noticed was the charger. Too little time to charge (just 25mins?) and going from red to green and red again in small intervals when almost full. I know from previous electric vehicles that this is not the way it happens. Being an auto mechanic and since I had an e-bike scooter and e-bike before I was sort of familiar with Hub motors, controllers and batteries. This never happened to any of my previous vehicles. My suspicion that something was wrong was confirmed when while trying to accelerate, the EU turn off and I had my first (and only till this moment) faceplant. I hurt my hands (minor scratches) and my right leg near the knee. The verdict: the batteries were TOTALLY USELESS or at least NOT SUITABLE for such a device. Maybe a flashlight and not in an emergency would be fine! I took immediate action and ordered 16 cells of SAMSUNG 18650 at 2.6Ah (the purple ones). Within a day I had them over and opened the battery cover to take the original pack with BMS out and replace them. Needless to say the pack had a sticker 2.0Ah but even the most UNRELATED to electronics person would understand that a charger giving 2.0Amps would require at least one hour to fully charge them and not just 25 mins. Anyway, one by one the cells were in place on the BMS and soldered so nothing will tear them apart.... Put the new pack back in and closed the cover. The first test was the charging, It took 90mins to fully charge. Success! The device has never turned off and surely lasts a hell of lot more than before. I can get at least 7kms before the last LED. But since I still have the fear of the one last led standing faceplant, I decided to install a volt meter to be sure about it. So I opened the other cover as well, to investigate where to connect the 3 wires for the digital voltmeter. The motherboard has a sticker X5 on it. So it might be the same as an airwheel X5. I have found a + and - of battery voltage when turning the device on and near the cables of the LEDs for SOC, the low voltage + to feed the voltmeter. (Should explain that the digital volt meter requires a "+" and "-" of under 30V to operate and the third wire, usually yellow, is the measurable Voltage to be indicated). Still waiting the arrival of the package with the volt meter. The box is cut a small rectangle ready for it and the cables soldered. As soon as it arrives, it will be on. The last 5 days I went to work on it. I have to take the charger with me just to be sure but I can't live on like this!!! Now I have a plan to install 16 more battery cells in it. I think if I solder each cell parallel to an existing cell it will work. The BMS won't shut off, since the power requested will still be the same and cells being parallel will split the load and last longer.... If it can last 20kms I will surely be satisfied. The question I still need to find an answer to, is whether I need to buy the same cells as the ones I 've installed (2.6Ah) or ones of a different capacity (ie 3.2Ah)? Enough for now... I will post pics as soon as I finish the upgrades... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisny Abby Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 i want see more pics, this article is so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 On 24.1.2016 at 6:46 PM, puntofato said: ... Anyway, one by one the cells were in place on the BMS and soldered so nothing will tear them apart.... Put the new pack back in and closed the cover. The first test was the charging, It took 90mins to fully charge. Success! The device has never turned off and surely lasts a hell of lot more than before. I can get at least 7kms before the last LED. But since I still have the fear of the one last led standing faceplant, I decided to install a volt meter to be sure about it. So I opened the other cover as well, to investigate where to connect the 3 wires for the digital voltmeter. The motherboard has a sticker X5 on it. So it might be the same as an airwheel X5. ... Now I have a plan to install 16 more battery cells in it. I think if I solder each cell parallel to an existing cell it will work. The BMS won't shut off, since the power requested will still be the same and cells being parallel will split the load and last longer.... If it can last 20kms I will surely be satisfied. The question I still need to find an answer to, is whether I need to buy the same cells as the ones I 've installed (2.6Ah) or ones of a different capacity (ie 3.2Ah)? Enough for now... I will post pics as soon as I finish the upgrades... For putting the cells in parallel at the BMS your best choice should be to take exactly the same cells! If the cells are "too" different i assume this could easily lead to a shorter lifecycle of the cells. But here are more experienced battery experts how could maybe give you more profound answers. And when you are doing all the work with putting together your BMS you should consider to change the BMS printed circiut, too. As they saved with the batteries, they maybe also have used a low quality BMS board, too. If you want you can take a look at the thread you have there some internals of 9bots BMS board (should be quite the same that KS uses, too) which is (could/should) be about "state of the art". And as last comment: You mentioned you soldered the battery cells - direct soldering on the cells can lead to destroying/derioration of the cells by excess heat. Also a good electrical contact with low resistance and good reliability is important. Some people from around here have written, that there exist the batterie cells with already premounted "soldering stripes" for easy and reliant soldering to the bms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunzn Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 7 minutes ago, Chriull said: Some people from around here have written, that there exist the batterie cells with already premounted "soldering stripes" for easy and reliant soldering to the bms. you can get them with soldering tails or wires. just as example - https://www.conrad.at/de/Search.html?search=18650 but not sure if these 18650 are "good" enough for EUC use. from my vaping days i remember that there are many different 18650 out there, with and without cell protection (PCB), different kinds of cell protections, different battery height ... and then of course the different cells chemistry like IMR, INR ... but ofc, as a battery noob, i have no idea if all of this even matters as you use a BMS anyhow ... not sure if its true but i read somewhere that Tesla uses 18650 without the normal pcb protection and manufactured some kind of foam-protection which floods the cell to prevent fires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntofato Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share Posted January 29, 2016 I will post pics as soon as I have the parts I ordered. It usually takes 30days to get an order. I can't wait to ride the EUC with the new battery and the voltmeter. Forgot to mention that in order for the second pack to fit in, it is necessary to "dig" the plastic box were the batteries are held. It is almost 1.6cm thick. Getting it down 1.2cm is enough for the second pack.... Chriull, The batteries I ordered were the same as the ones I installed. The motor is "rated" at 350 or 400W so that would be 6.7Amps at max load. The parallel batteries would give more than 10.4 amps for max discharge and that would be 600W. I know, I chose the wrong type because of low amp discharge rate (just 5.2) but in parallel that would be enough I reckon. Blunzn There are a lot of 18650 indeed. The ones for EUCs are the ones with high discharge amps and of good BRAND and not chinese.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntofato Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 I have installed the voltmeter and removed the battery state led lights. It looks better with this. I need to cover the 2 holes but that is for the weekend....The extra pack is on the way. Can't WAIT!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoe73 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Awesome, good mod! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polpus Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 great post ! have you upgrades on this issue ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlymex Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Great post and nice work to replace the old batteries which probably used 18650 cells from notebook computers that not only with reduced capacity but also with large internal resistance in the first place. For adding another 16 cells, you can parallel them with existing ones if you have extra space in the compartment as often happen in the commercial cases where 32 or even 64 cells share one BMS. Take extreme precautions not let any cell has the opportunity to short circuit during the mod nor afterward. If you have to put extra battery pack outside, second BMS is required for the new pack and you need a connection of only two thick wires(+ and -) and preferably through a dedicated port. The last thing I'd like to mention is that when digging the plastic box, be sure not to weaken the structure or led to water leakage on the wheel side. Ideally the batteries should be buffered on both sides with semi-hard cushions to withstand the impact force when the EUC falls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntofato Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 Greetings, people! The second pack arrived last week. Took the EU for the mod in the weekend. Finally I managed to make one big pack with 32 batteries. It is at 5.2Ah at 60+volts which is 312Wh at least. I must say that it is a very difficult and ABSOLUTELY dangerous task to solder the batteries in parallel to the existing ones in order to close the pack. After I finished, I left them for a couple of days without charging them. I thought that they would balance by themselves because the first 16 were full and the last were at a lower voltage as they came from the factory. I must say that I almost blow one up when a small part of molten solder fell between two cells that were in a series of 8, causing the last of them to short-circuit. Luckily for me I was checking the batteries by touch at very short intervals and I noticed the increase of temperature on the cell and fixed the problem. VERY VERY dangerous thing to do. Fitting it inside proved even more difficult. Very little space. We had to cut the plastic bottom completely. Then we placed two metal strips that were attached with screws in the place of the bottom. A thin but hard plastic in a rectangular form was placed in order to fit the new pack inside and then the outer cover was placed. Some sticky tape was also necessary to seal the pack. Only trouble was a scratch sound from the tyre's "needles" touching on the metal strips that we placed, but after cutting those it was gone. Nothing else after that. I fully charged it couple of days ago but the first test was tonight. The starting voltage was 67.1V. I was riding for 10kms before my toes started feeling numb and I stopped. The voltage at the end of the ride was 61volts. I think I can ride for all that I can way before the battery is depleted which is good.... I think that there is nothing else to do on it. It is 1000% better than when I bought it, and most importantly it is safe to ride. No more faceplants and a fairly good range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntofato Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 Charging was complete. According to the wattmeter the EU needed 144Wh for 10kms. So theoritical range of the new pack is 22kms. Not bad at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 40 minutes ago, puntofato said: Greetings, people! The second pack arrived last week. Took the EU for the mod in the weekend. Finally I managed to make one big pack with 32 batteries. It is at 5.2Ah at 60+volts which is 312Wh at least. I must say that it is a very difficult and ABSOLUTELY dangerous task to solder the batteries in parallel to the existing ones in order to close the pack. After I finished, I left them for a couple of days without charging them. I thought that they would balance by themselves because the first 16 were full and the last were at a lower voltage as they came from the factory. I must say that I almost blow one up when a small part of molten solder fell between two cells that were in a series of 8, causing the last of them to short-circuit. Luckily for me I was checking the batteries by touch at very short intervals and I noticed the increase of temperature on the cell and fixed the problem. VERY VERY dangerous thing to do. Nice to hear you got it done. Soldering anything directly to the cells myself would be something I'd never try, I see it as too high risk of blowing things up, good you caught the short circuit in time. Are the cells only soldered (not spot-welded) together? Aren't you worried that the constant vibration and shocks might cause the cells to come off? Btw, I think the metal casing under the plastic(?) labeling/cover on the sides of the cells also acts as the negative pole (at least in most cells?), if the covers get scratched enough, that's another potential short circuit there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntofato Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 18 minutes ago, esaj said: Nice to hear you got it done. Soldering anything directly to the cells myself would be something I'd never try, I see it as too high risk of blowing things up, good you caught the short circuit in time. Are the cells only soldered (not spot-welded) together? Aren't you worried that the constant vibration and shocks might cause the cells to come off? Btw, I think the metal casing under the plastic(?) labeling/cover on the sides of the cells also acts as the negative pole (at least in most cells?), if the covers get scratched enough, that's another potential short circuit there... Hi there esaj! I have soldered metal strips between the cells just like when you buy them with strips that are spot welded. I do it very fast so that it won't let heat get in the cell. I did that on the first 16 cell pack that I made and there was no problem. It is not easy and I DON'T RECOMMEND it to people who don't have equipment to do so. Very dangerous.... As for the casing, the metal casing ( just a couple of strips actually) act as a frame. On that frame there is a plastic case and in THAT plastic case the pack is in. No contact with metal in any case and also the batteries are protected from the elements.Not to mention that the pack itself is insulated in layers of tape for even more protection.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntofato Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 Greetings again people, I was testing the EU all evening and the results were GREAT. I was riding it for more than 2 hours total time and the battery went to 59,3V. I will be charging it with the wattmeter to check the energy it needed and how much was left in the pack. Top speed is kind of slow though, only 14km/h according to my phone. Maybe I should get another controller? Hmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntofato Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 Hello again people. I had an adventure with my generic unicycle and I had to do major mods. First of all, I wanted to install lights for it and I thought I could take power from wherever I want from the board.... I found 4.3 volts from the hall sensors and connected some led lights.... Big mistake. In 5 seconds smoke came from the board and because of the heatsink it had, covering most of it, I couldn't find where it came from. I knew I blew it by that time. I took it to 3 electronic repairmen and couldn't find which part was ruined. I tried to use it and it worked fine for a couple of kms but then the power was progressively cut till I could ride it no more. GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT.... I tried to find a replacement board but there could be an issue with it not being compatible with the motor. By that time I knew I had to buy a motor and a board. So I got in touch with Microworks and after some messages I bought the 500w motor and the 30b controller with bluetooth and a 60 to 12 DCto DC converter to install lights. After a week the package came and I wanted to test it. Second disappointment. The board was defective!!!!! After several messages and a video I sent to them they asked me to send it back and get another. I had to wait 15days for them to receive my board and conclude it was defective, which it was, and another 20 days for the new to return. I got it on Friday and I installed it on Saturday. I calibrated it with Gotway english app and it worked PERFECTLY!!!! IT IS AMAZING. I can now use it properly and cover serious distances with good speed. MAX speed is more than 30km/h but I am not after this. It can keep good with bikes and get you anywhere you want in good time. No more pedals rising after 12km/h.... I will be taking it to work everyday from now on... Also last mod I did is in this pic so that my feet don't feel numb after a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 My favorite mod was the voltmeter taking the place of the four lights on top. Does it show fluctuations while riding or does it just show the voltage slowly going down? Great job with the batteries and controller and motor, looks like you turned a weak generic into a high quality wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 18 hours ago, steve454 said: My favorite mod was the voltmeter taking the place of the four lights on top. Does it show fluctuations while riding or does it just show the voltage slowly going down? Great job with the batteries and controller and motor, looks like you turned a weak generic into a high quality wheel. The voltmeter seems similar to the ones I've used, they update about 3-4 times per second. And you can see the voltage dipping during acceleration/climb and climbing during braking / going downhill. The emptier the battery is, the larger the "range" over which the voltage fluctuates. Towards the end (nearly empty batteries) on the Firewheel, it dipped from around 54V to around 47-48V during slight acceleration. Dipping below 47V, it triggered the mainboard out-of-battery warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntofato Posted June 29, 2016 Author Share Posted June 29, 2016 Greetings everyone, I am sorry to say that for no reason the unicycle stopped at 20km/h or more. I had a major faceplant and had to call an ambulance to get to the hospital. I had a lot of damage on my face, broke 2 teeth and ruined several parts of skin all over my body. THIS WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN!!! I did 20kms or more yesterday and nothing was wrong. Sorry guys and dolls no more unicycle for me anymore. This is not a safe piece of machinery. I can also imagine the frustration of people who have bought really expensive ones and had faceplants and injuries. And before someone asks if I was wearing a helmet or safety gear, I would need a full face helmet like my motorcycle's to avoid the head injury.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Omigosh sorry to hear about your injury! After reading your mod, I was kind of inspired to try to upgrade my generic wheel with a Microworks controller and new motor to get some speed out of it, but now I'm starting to wonder if I should be wearing a mouthguard when riding... What battery level was your unit at when the accident happened? Were there any warning beeps or tiltback? I wonder if the solder joint to the cells might have been the problem? A cold solder joint and vibration can knock a connection loose and then zero voltage... Do you read any voltage coming from the pack? In any case, I hope you have a quick recovery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 @puntofatoSorry to read about your accident, wow that is a bad fall. I totally understand you not trusting the wheel anymore, but you made some great mods. Maybe you can build an electric bicycle with your wheel. There is a video in the video thread of a new bike based on an euc that looks interesting. I think it is on one of the last pages, they are trying to get funding to go into production. And there is a guy in Israel who modified his wheel with a handlebar who says even if it cuts out he doesn't fall. With your skills, who knows what you might create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntofato Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 I must admit I have failed, people. My purpose was to make it useful and safe. I only did half of what I wanted. When I first bought it, I got a minor faceplant and took immediate action to swap the batteries with serious ones. And I must tell you that it worked but it was slow and couldn't take you anywhere in time, so it was not useful but it was safe. Then I made it useful with the motor and the PCB from microworks which also improved the range, but what about safety? I rode 20kms (2 rides of 10kms) the day before and it went like a dream. I really enjoyed it. I always charge it after each ride so it is always ready to cover big distances. Yesterday I went to work with it in the morning covering 4kms. In the afternoon I took it to return home. I must say that it sounded a bit differently than it did the day before or the morning. Sort of like a vibration coming from the motor. I thought something was rubbing on the tyre so I stopped to check and it was fine. 100m further while I was riding steadily in level ground, and for no apparent reason it turned off? stopped? I don't know. I was on the ground before I really understood what had happened. People rushed to help me, called an ambulance and there was blood all over the place. When I took it in my hands and reset it, it was functioning and battery was at 63.7Volts. It was the second PCB I got from them as the first never actually worked. I don't know if their quality checks are doing anything but I am not willing to investigate it further. Nor I will be selling anything to anyone. I don't want other people to get hurt like I did. I am not sure what it hurts more. My injuries and the time I will spend to recover and fix myself or the pain of putting so much effort, time and money in something that failed miserably.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 At least you're alive and in one piece more or less. There have been a rash of accidents involving broken bones recently. Riding on one wheel is incredibly dependant on the how well our electronic devices keep us safe as there is no other failsafe from falling. It's too easy to forget that when we are gliding effortlessly around. It's almost like those base jumpers or paragliders who trust that their equipment and skill will bring them down safely. We're incredibly reliant on our equipment working. Give it some time before making up your mind as your injuries are very recent and the shock of it happening is still fresh. I think we've all taken some falls in life, but sometimes you have to pick yourself up and not give up. Like riding a bike and falling we learn from our mistakes. Other times yes it might be best to move onto a different hobby or sport if the risks are just too great. Hopefully you did have some good times on the wheel so your experiences and effort were not all for waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OleTC Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Sorry to hear about Your injuries. Hope You recover well and is as good as new soon. But it's the price early movers have allways paid with new technology. It is Cardinal to doublecheck everything, when You build batterypacks, assemble the Wheels, etc. We know that one Loose connection is all that's needed. It can go well for a long time and then... Do Yourself a favour and open up the Wheel to re-check everything, before You discard anything. It could be a simple thing. Could be the board-connectors. Many possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 11 hours ago, OleTC said: Do Yourself a favour and open up the Wheel to re-check everything, before You discard anything. It could be a simple thing. Could be the board-connectors. Many possibilities. It would also be doing everyone reading this thread a favor. Thanks for sharing your experiences and photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntofato Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 Hello, people Thanks for your support. Hope nobody else suffers like I do. As I wrote earlier the unicycle just after the crash, ie when I went to pick it up, was working and balancing itself. So what ever happened to it, had to do with load. Since the battery was full (almost 64V) , I cannot think anything else but the pcb. I also mentioned that there was a vibration and noise, light but I could feel it, that wasn't there the day before when I rode 20kms or in my morning ride to work. At first I thought it was something rubbing against the tyre and stopped to check it out. I lifted it up to check the wheel rotation and I couldn't see anything nor hear anything. So I kept on going and then, just after 100m, it happened. It is the second PCB that came from the factory. The first one didn't even balance itself and I sent it back. I don't know how they test those things before sending them to customers. Sorry people, I cannot test this and risk damaging myself nomore. Even if there is something wrong with the PCB, software or hardware, I don't have the knowledge nor the equipment to repair it. Just for comparison, my original PCB (14/km/h) was smoking when I tried to connect LED lights and 3 proffesional electronics repairmen couldn't find which part was burned. SURELY I cannot find if the is a bad connection to an otherwise NEW PCB.... The only thing left for me to do is to keep the wheel and make a scooter out of it. I will find a kids or a small bike and cut it so that the motor can fit in it. Then there would be plenty of room for more batteries. I just have to think how to mount the PCB so that I can accelerate or brake... Then even if it fails no damage can be done to the rider. I would like to make a comment on safety equipment too. A bike helmet WON'T protect your head in a faceplant. My injuries were mostly near the mouth area so I would need my motorcycle helmet in order to protect myself. Do yourselves a favour and don't take it more than 15-16kms/h. Slower speed, less damage in case of failure. Anything that goes wrong with it and your are done for. Even if there were no problems before, always be alert for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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