InMotion v11 MotorCable Mod

[Julianjc84]

UPDATE 2021 DEC 29th

Have used the wheel heavily on mountain bike trail. No issues. Temperature was hot 89 Degrees. 

https://euc.world/tour/605314365797011

https://youtu.be/XboNXfmaC8g

UPDATE 2021 DEC 11th

Full album can be seen here.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/xSVkGsRuTwoL1DrY7

BEGIN ORIGINAL POST:
I often have to open up my V11 to Change the tire, Grease the Bearings, Knock out bends in the Rim, Etc, its a real pain to Open the main head unit to access circuit board to disconnect the:
3 Power Cables
5 Sensor Cables
I have been considering for some time now to add a connector outside the circuit board head unit for Faster and easier access to remove the motor cable.
Video here explaining. 

Considering some cable connectors: Id like to use something like xt60s 3 way for the motor cable. As this is what Kingsong seem to use on s18 for the motor cable. It is so easy to remove the s18's Motor! 
as I am in Australia id Like to buy the parts from local shop Link bellow.
https://www.jaycar.com.au/xt60-2-way-bullet-connectors-plug-and-socket/p/PT4458?pos=1&queryId=d134308489663dd361b06089e5ba0129

https://www.jaycar.com.au/15a-anderson-powerpole-connectors-red-and-black-pair/p/PT4402?pos=1&queryId=076c687a32576cbcc0dee4e64862ee13

also suggestions for the 5 sensor cables?
https://www.jaycar.com.au/anderson-powerpole-series-4-pin-data-connector/p/PT4403?pos=20&queryId=d62585b5cc9acb3d9c9bea3ddcbcbc7d&sort=relevance

https://www.jaycar.com.au/6-pin-0-1-straight-locking-header-2-54-pitch-single/p/HM3416?pos=2&queryId=8b5bd43437df2f409229ddd69b5e2baf

https://www.jaycar.com.au/6-pin-0-1-header-with-crimp-pins-2-54-pitch/p/HM3406?pos=3&queryId=ca31318d88f43d65bf3f247ff6f7c704

Edited December 29, 2021 by Julianjc84

[mrelwood]

There are four issues that come to mind:

1) Space. The three pin XT connector is quite a bit thicker than the 2-pin one in your photos. I would not feel secure with it so close to constantly moving parts. How would you secure the connectors in a way that would keep them flush with the shell during hard vibration and jolts without adding too much thickness?

2) Water. You’d need both connectors to be fully water resistant. And not just the connecting side but the cable side of the connectors as well.

3) Gain. For removing the motor, you’d need to disassemble the saddle and shocks anyway. So the mainboard cover is already exposed, and opens up with just four screws. Granted, you still need to remove the top board and unscrew the motor cables, but that is all the work the external connectors would skip.

4) Battery. When removing the motor, you first unplug the battery cables. This has been the generally instructed first step for all wheels when removing the motor. Now, I don’t really know if removing the motor with the batteries connected poses any real risks, but it is something that I would definitely look into before considering a mod like this.

 

 Maybe look into your overall disassembly method in case there are any other steps that you could optimize instead?

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by mrelwood

[Unventor]

I thi k it is worth to mention too this was suggested to Inmotion by riders and Ecodrift but the Inmotion technical team looked at it and said it isn't "possible" but the reasons to why were not given. 

If this was simple to do and risk free I am pretty sure they would have made the changes considering the other changes they made to bearing and motor after this. 

[yoos]

Indeed, ecodrift offers to add a connector in the hollow motor for this purpose as part of their standard tuning service. And I understand why inmotion doesn't want to do this from factory: it's a complication and point of failure, an extra check for QC and needs waterproofing (or sourcing expensive waterproof connectors). It's not that much of a gain. At the same time the idea is good and should be a standard solution for newer wheels: it should be possible to disconnect and retrieve the motor-wheel with minimum disassembly of the body. Plug and play EUC with easy wheel and battery swaps would be great.

[Unventor]

4 minutes ago, yoos said:

At the same time the idea is good and should be a standard solution for newer wheels: it should be possible to disconnect and retrieve the motor-wheel with minimum disassembly of the body. Plug and play EUC with easy wheel and battery swaps would be great.

I fully agree that this is something that shouldn't follow a next generation wheel. 

It is part of the feedback I gave to Inmotion recently. It is all about easy service and preferably making things more modular so you don't have to disable everything. 

Part of this is also only to use "machine" screws or bolts. By this I mean self cutting screws should be a thing of the past and only use as similar size of screws as possible. It really can't be that hard. It also helps to avoids cracks in plastics due to tightening too hard. 

I just hold the feedback I gave, came in time for Inmotion to act upon it. They did listen which is the first part. 

[Julianjc84]

I have CUT my cables ready for install.

I will have a solution buy the end of the week.

Will be 100% secured. To to body of the unit so no rattle or catching.

Waterproof we will see how. Not really a priority for me living is dry Australia but will see what I can do.

As for DC the battery before remove the motor this is not required, as I have cut my cables and yes careful to no short them. the s18 has a plug to remove the motor so that's a Better design thought in my mind.

As for opening the mobo board it's very cramped and lots of control cables takes alot of time, delicate area and to avoid damage and if this mod can save me opening it again I'm all for it.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Julianjc84

[Julianjc84]

Just purchased some gear 

 

[Richardo]

Sorry to be chiming in late but im worried about using header pins for sensor wires. 

header pins are not vibration proof connectors, and a loose hall effect will cut out. 

im no EE so i dont have a suggestion for the proper connector, but at least caulk/silicone that when you’re finished

[Julianjc84]

4 hours ago, Richardo said:

Sorry to be chiming in late but im worried about using header pins for sensor wires. 

header pins are not vibration proof connectors, and a loose hall effect will cut out. 

im no EE so i dont have a suggestion for the proper connector, but at least caulk/silicone that when you’re finished

Good feed back, I have had others say the same.
I am leaning more towards using the JST connectors for the sensor wires. what is your opinion on JST?
https://www.jaycar.com.au/jst-crimp-connectors-2-way/p/PT4452?pos=3&queryId=3d0f7bd5ea37d8a530de34f70014d776

There are 5 wires anyone know what they all are for? I have not opened the covers.

still considering the main power connector too. just re-checking amp requirements.

[Julianjc84]

50A requires 6AWG (4.115mm dia) copper cable R=1.296mohm/m (0.001296ohm/m)
40A requires 8AWG (3.264mm dia) R=2.061mohm/m
30A requires 10AWG (2.588mm dia) R=3.277mohm/m

Power Cables are 3mm including insulation:

Amps on typical rides peak at 45/50amps for short bursts.

shame this plug is 15A rated!
https://www.jaycar.com.au/3-pin-multi-pin-plug-socket/p/PP2022?pos=1&queryId=08d001db928d9c28eb7b0cff15d8333e:
its ideal as its 3 pins and low profile.
40AMP Anderson may be my only option.

 

Open to comments:

automotive plugs seems the best path




 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Julianjc84

[Richardo]

Maybe molex dittos with positive connect or

Mizus are designed for automotive applications (water dust and vibration) so if they fit under the shell they'd be a great connector. They also might be preferable for the motor itself. (that link is for the mini ones for Hall effect wires, which are only 5v and low amperage. you'd have to get larger ones for the motor wires after you know the current that would be going through them. very important to get that right)

I think you'd need to buy a crimper for any of these, though. 

 

All five of the smaller gauge wires are Hall effect sensors, and they're not redundant- every one needs to be making a connection at all times.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Richardo

[RagingGrandpa]

3 hours ago, Julianjc84 said:

5 wires anyone know what they all are for?

+5V sensor supply
0V sensor ground
Sensor A signal
Sensor B signal
Sensor C signal
 

3 hours ago, Julianjc84 said:

what is your opinion on JST?

Like all small stamped crimp terminals, you really, really need the correct crimp dies, which can be expensive. And the terminals are very small, so experience is needed to make repeatable, reliable crimp connections.

Done correctly, it's good. Just plan ahead for some tools and some practice spares (extra terminals to throw away), before doing the real EUC circuits.
 

3 hours ago, Julianjc84 said:

considering the main power connector

That 4-way trailer connector is pretty crappy, and is molded to 18-gage wire with cheap low-temperature insulation and unknown-quality (hidden) crimp connections. Stay away.

Instead, you're looking for wire gage that matches the motor cables (12AWG?) and a connector with durable terminals to match. Ideally, you'll cut and attach the existing wires, and not need to add more wire length.
Kingsong used MT60 for motors before, which is nice, but bulky.
If space is an issue, it's common to use high-current bullet connectors without a shell, with heatshrink over them. Without a shell, take extra care to avoid tension on the bullets, such as securing the wires to the EUC plastics with cable ties or glue. Doable.
 

3 hours ago, Julianjc84 said:

50A requires 6AWG (4.115mm dia) copper cable R=1.296mohm/m (0.001296ohm/m)
40A requires 8AWG (3.264mm dia) R=2.061mohm/m
30A requires 10AWG (2.588mm dia) R=3.277mohm/m

Those numbers are very conservative, sounds like NEC. It's for household wiring, carrying loads continuously for days, using wires in a hot wooden attic in Phoenix in July.

Peak current for the EUC motor can be 200A, but average current is less than 50A. RC hobby connectors of the 50A-ish advertised rating are what you need.

Edited December 7, 2021 by RagingGrandpa

[Julianjc84]

Thankyou, Great feedback and solutions coming.

3 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Like all small stamped crimp terminals, you really, really need the correct crimp dies, which can be expensive. And the terminals are very small, so experience is needed to make repeatable, reliable crimp connections.

Done correctly, it's good. Just plan ahead for some tools and practice spares (extra terminals to throw away), before doing the real EUC circuits.

JST are at the top of list list for the 5 Sensor Cables:
 

3 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

 

That 4-way trailer connector is pretty crappy, and is molded to 18-gage wire with cheap low-temperature insulation and unknown-quality (hidden) crimp connections. Stay away.

This plug looked cool in the shop, Super low profile and big connectors. but after opening the packet I disliked, was very hard to press together and would not seal cleanly. any water and would easily short. I will be returning.
 

3 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Peak current for the EUC motor can be 200A, but average current is less than 50A. RC hobby connectors of the 50A-ish advertised rating are what you need.

I have a old Tamiya RC car and remember the motor connectors on that were low profile and water tight sleeved and still work today 25 years later. Considering This.

something like this
https://hobbytechtoys.com.au/collections/all/products/hobbytech-4mm-gold-bullet-connectors-3-pairs
will be visting this shop later today.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Julianjc84

[Julianjc84]

Just purchased some more gear from the local model hobby shop.

 

 

[Julianjc84]

Control wires seem join up good.

The RC bullet connectors are nice and low profile. However they are not the crimp style. They are soldier. Concerned with heat they may loosen up.

I need to source a more powerful iron as mine is too small for the job. I'd like a nice clean join. 

Thoughts?

 

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Julianjc84

[RagingGrandpa]

7 hours ago, Julianjc84 said:

RC bullet connectors are nice and low profile. However they are not the crimp style. They are soldier.

Yup, most high-current bullet connectors are solder cups, not crimping terminals. It's normal.
 

7 hours ago, Julianjc84 said:

Concerned with heat they may loosen up.

There are already many soldered joints in the motor phase circuit. As long as the bullet connector is sized correctly (4mm or larger), it won't be hotter than any other place on the circuit.
 

7 hours ago, Julianjc84 said:

Control wires seem join up good.

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Julian

Soldered connections in-line with a dangling wire are a risk of fatigue cracking if the wire is able to move. The shrink helps, but be sure to secure the wires after installation, in a way that cannot vibrate. Cable ties or glue.

(Flexibility is the main performance advantage that crimp terminals have, vs soldering.)
 

7 hours ago, Julianjc84 said:

I need to source a more powerful iron

They're usually cheap! Simple ones are just a resistor in a can, after all...

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/304256855659?hash=item46d71f2e6b:g:lDQAAOSwcB5cz-op

 

[Richardo]

looks like you Aussies also have a huge supply of vintage Weller soldering guns on eBay, too. I love mine, nothing to wear out, and if you run out of tips, just strip some house wire and bend that into position.

edit: welp. looks like I don't understand how eBay works. this is false.

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Richardo

[RagingGrandpa]

2 hours ago, Richardo said:

welp. looks like I don't understand how eBay works

Hehe yup, ebay product listings are configured by the shipping destination most recently selected, not the frontpage URL.

So it means you (in USA) have a huge supply of pistol-grip soldering irons.

But they're not good for heavy bullet connectors. For this, we need something with a big heavy tip (high thermal mass).

.02

[mrelwood]

14 hours ago, Julianjc84 said:

Thoughts?

I would definitely make the hall sensor connections all over, and twist the wires up good before soldering. They are now relying on the strength of a tiny amount of solder which I’m sure you’ve noticed is very soft and cracks easily.

 If you’re using bullet connectors for the motor mains, I would put female connectors on the board side, and male for the motor. That way there would be a much smaller chance for a short while the wires are unplugged.

[Julianjc84]

7 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

There are already many soldered joints in the motor phase circuit. As long as the bullet connector is sized correctly (4mm or larger), it won't be hotter than any other place on the circuit.

Soldered connections in-line with a dangling wire are a risk of fatigue cracking if the wire is able to move. The shrink helps, but be sure to secure the wires after installation, in a way that cannot vibrate. Cable ties or glue.

For the space and size the 4mm bullet and shield is a bit large. And they are only 2 pin.

The 3.5mm bullet and shield is a really nice size and fit. Plus it a combo 3 pin unit.

As for the control wires I'm going to add large heat shrink  cover to the whole block as well add a plastic support brace over the join area to support. Keep you posted.

[Julianjc84]

7 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I would definitely make the hall sensor connections all over, and twist the wires up good before soldering. They are now relying on the strength of a tiny amount of solder which I’m sure you’ve noticed is very soft and cracks easily.

 If you’re using bullet connectors for the motor mains, I would put female connectors on the board side, and male for the motor. That way there would be a much smaller chance for a short while the wires are unplugged.

I'll give twisting a go. I have some sample wires to play with.

This twist method is awesome however the control wires are so fine .

https://youtu.be/N8F6KcfB9Go

Power cables. I agree female on the unit, male on motor.

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Julianjc84

[mrelwood]

One another thing that may not matter as much, but I tend to put shorter shrink tubings on thin cable connections. As you’re handling them, the cable bends where it’s easiest for it to do so. A long tubing applies more force on the fragile unshielded part of the wire, whereas short tubing would better direct the forces to the flexible cable.

[Julianjc84]

More components to test.

Xt50 and xt90 look very nice. Shame no 3 pin versions. I wanted the Ec5 as they are aparently easier to connect and disconnect but out of stock. Aparently ec5 is a joined polarized 2 pin bullet plug 5mm.

Almost time to put the wheel back together and test them out.

[RagingGrandpa]

1 minute ago, Julianjc84 said:

Xt50 and xt90 look very nice. Shame no 3 pin versions.

*ahem*

On 12/7/2021 at 3:23 PM, RagingGrandpa said:

Kingsong used MT60 for motors before, which is nice, but bulky.

[Julianjc84]

4 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

*ahem*

Very nice.

Wish it was flat tho. I can't wait for online stock. I will use what i have so far.