MSX 100V 1280WH vs Kingsong 18XL for a Noob

[syirrus]

Hello guys!

I have been lurking in the forum for some time. Nevertheless, I'm seriously considering getting an EUC. Keep in mind, this would be my first EUC, but I'm a long time longboarder if that counts lol. Anyway, which one do you guys recommend? I have watched an read things about each EUC.  I like speed, range and portability, but I know I can't have all.  I would ride on both paved paths and unpaved paths.

The MSX 100V is 2000 Euros

The Kingsong 18XL is 2400 Euros

Which would you roll with?

Syirrus

[RayRay]

I had a similar choice between an MSX-84V and 18XL. I chose the Kingsong for it's smoothness and comfortable riding stance. However, I rarely feel the need to ride at speeds close to (or over) 50 km/h. An 18XL does okay on unpaved paths, but it's best at cruising along paved surfaces. Non-speedsters generally get good range.

MSX was (and still is) a brute. Faster than an 18XL, but slower than the models that replaced it. This model has since been refined a couple of times into an overall better wheel. Still, the basic structure is there; like the fat wheel for better unpaved road performance. I imagine the 100V was a slight improvement over the 84V; and fairly capable all around.

You're going to need a counterpoint response from someone who owns an MSX, so I'll just say I'd probably still choose the 18XL (for myself).

Edited November 30, 2021 by RayRay

[syirrus]

1 hour ago, RayRay said:

I had a similar choice between an MSX-84V and 18XL. I chose the Kingsong for it's smoothness and comfortable riding stance. However, I rarely feel the need to ride at speeds close to (or over) 50 km/h. An 18XL does okay on unpaved paths, but it's best at cruising along paved surfaces. Non-speedsters generally get good range.

MSX was (and still is) a brute. Faster than an 18XL, but slower than the models that replaced it. This model has since been refined a couple of times into an overall better wheel. Still, the basic structure is there; like the fat wheel for better unpaved road performance. I imagine the 100V was a slight improvement over the 84V; and fairly capable all around.

You're going to need a counterpoint response from someone who owns an MSX, so I'll just say I'd probably still choose the 18XL (for myself).

Thank you for the response.  It's been such a hard decision. I'm not looking to break speed records being new to EUC, but I want something I can grow into. After looking at the MSX and even the Inmotion V11, it seems the Kingsong 18XL is the most reliable and will strikes a good balance between cruising, speed, range and reliability. I just need to find it a little cheaper if I can   

Thank you so much1

[Scottie]

 

42 minutes ago, syirrus said:

Thank you for the response.  It's been such a hard decision. I'm not looking to break speed records being new to EUC, but I want something I can grow into. After looking at the MSX and even the Inmotion V11, it seems the Kingsong 18XL is the most reliable and will strikes a good balance between cruising, speed, range and reliability. I just need to find it a little cheaper if I can   

Thank you so much1

That 1st wheel is usually the hardest one to decide on. The 18XL is a good wheel to start with, and keep, even after you have experience for all the reasons you spelled out. You are likely to end up with more than one wheel after the addiction sets in. By then you probably will have decided what kind of 2nd wheel and speed you need.

 

On 11/27/2021 at 12:02 PM, syirrus said:

I like speed, range and portability, but I know I can't have all.

The 18XL ticks all those boxes fairly well, and especially the portability one. The trolley handle is the best one out there so far. The slim profile and the way you can easily lift it with the handle and a folded pedal (makes a great hand hold) to lay it on its side to stow it in a car etc. makes it one of the most portable. And it is not so heavy if you need to carry it up stairs.

The 18XL is less maneuverable than others because of the height of the body allows less tilt steering between your legs. It is not bad for cruising around, just that it cannot do a U turn on a trail as easily as a 16X, V11, or any of the MSX varieties. But a lot of that depends on the way your legs fit the wheel.

It is a funny thing. I have noticed that a wheel may inhibit one thing, but aid another. That loss of some tilt steering between the legs also works to make mounting easier ... much easier to control the wheel ... go figure!

The 18XL will be able to handle unpaved paths because they tend to be firm from constant traffic. But if you are going to be more of an unpaved path rider, think about adding the 16X into the mix.     

[meepmeepmayer]

These prices seem a little high. Who would your seller/shop be?

The MSX (MSuper X) is a 2018 wheel, followed by the Msuper Pro, followed by the RS (latest "msuper" wheel). The RS 1800Wh (instead of 1280Wh whatever that is... 1230Wh?) is about 2200€. I can't recommend it due to the current battery troubles (bad LG cells that seem to have had a few fires), though (except that it is a fantastic wheel).

The 18XL can be had for ~2000 (EU shop).

Also consider the V11 or the V12.

Check here for some more reasonable prices, for example:

https://eunicycles.eu/en/25-wheels?id_category=25&n=24

There are quite a few EU shops, you don't have to buy from the expensive ones.

Edited November 30, 2021 by meepmeepmayer

[syirrus]

18 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

These prices seem a little high. Who would your seller/shop be?

The MSX (MSuper X) is a 2018 wheel, followed by the Msuper Pro, followed by the RS (latest "msuper" wheel). The RS 1800Wh (instead of 1280Wh whatever that is... 1230Wh?) is about 2200€. I can't recommend it due to the current battery troubles (bad LG cells that seem to have had a few fires), though (except that it is a fantastic wheel).

The 18XL can be had for ~2000 (EU shop).

Also consider the V11 or the V12.

Check here for some more reasonable prices, for example:

https://eunicycles.eu/en/25-wheels?id_category=25&n=24

There are quite a few EU shops, you don't have to buy from the expensive ones.

Yeah the prices are out of this world.

I'm in Germany and I looked locally here and on some of the EUC sites like speedywheels and eucsale. Since you can only ride on private roads here, I guess the market is not so good in terms of options and pricing. I was looking into the v11, but I keep reading things about bearing issues. Otherwise it would seem to be good as well. 

What do you ride?

[meepmeepmayer]

4 minutes ago, syirrus said:

I guess the market is not so good in terms of options and pricing

No, they just have inflated prices. You don't have to buy from a German shop, the entire EU works the same, it should merely be reasonably close in case of a return or repair.

The one I linked is one of the older/more established ones, for example. Poland isn't that far.

5 minutes ago, syirrus said:

I was looking into the v11, but I keep reading things about bearing issues.

Those issues are fixed. That was just the first batch (revision) of the V11.

5 minutes ago, syirrus said:

What do you ride?

Some shitty old ass Gotway wheel from 2017 (ACM).

In Desktop view you can see what wheels people have, if they added it to their profile. Same as their location.

[meepmeepmayer]

Buy from a shop that has current models on sale, that's how you know it's active. A lot of shops are old and display some old models for crazy prices. You can always link to the seller and ask for opinions about them, or ask for a seller for a specific wheel.

This is my attempt to get a list of current seller that people are using. Nothing there yet, but you can buy yours and give your assessment of the seller then.

Edited December 1, 2021 by meepmeepmayer

[syirrus]

4 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Buy from a shop that has current models on sale, that's how you know it's active. A lot of shops are old and display some old models for crazy prices. You can always link to the seller and ask for opinions about them, or ask for a seller for a specific wheel.

This is my attempt to get a list of current seller that people are using. Nothing there yet, but you can buy yours and give your assessment of the seller then.

Thank you for the advice. It is really helpful for me!  

I see that you are in Germany. If I buy from eunicycles.eu there will be no additional VAT that I would have to pay?  

Also, how do you far with riding in Germany?  I was planning on riding out in the fields where there is hardly anyone. Is that a good idea?

Thank you so much again! It's kinda of overwhelming to make a decision, but you guys have helped me immensely. I will check out the thread on good sellers now! 

[meepmeepmayer]

15 minutes ago, syirrus said:

If I buy from eunicycles.eu there will be no additional VAT that I would have to pay?

The entire EU is a single market. You don't pay any import fees or whatever. In this case, you pay Polish VAT (included in the price, it says), just like with anything you'd buy in a Polish supermarket or other physical store. Add shipping, and that's your price, just like a German shop.

I've never used eunicycles. But they have been around a while (including posting here a few years ago), have a good website (I use that to judge what to think of sellers, even if it sometimes gives no indication) and a good (= current) selection of wheels (which tells you they are not some old shop on life support), and the prices are ok (cheaper than some other Euro sellers, and not much more expensive than China importers). If I had to buy a wheel now, personally I would buy from them, why not. Check the links at the bottom of their page if you have questions on shipping etc.

15 minutes ago, syirrus said:

I was planning on riding out in the fields where there is hardly anyone. Is that a good idea?

I use the EUC for fun only, which means mountains and landscape and on bike paths along rivers etc. You hardly see the police except a few times when going through some village/city, and don't underestimate that EUCs are fast and sneaky. Of course you can always have bad luck. The alternative is not riding, which isn't an option

Edited December 1, 2021 by meepmeepmayer

[meepmeepmayer]

11 minutes ago, syirrus said:

I will check out the thread on good sellers now!

Nothing there yet. Just google the wheel model you decide on, and see what pops up.

There's also this, but it is old, so Google is your friend, or try eunicycles.

[Tawpie]

34 minutes ago, syirrus said:

I was planning on riding out in the fields where there is hardly anyone. Is that a good idea?

 

It's the best idea actually! At least, I have the most fun in the fields and on trails where there aren't any cars to run me over. And it forces you to improve your riding skills very quickly.

[mike_bike_kite]

I also vote for the 18XL. It's just easier to ride, more comfortable over long distances and it won't get hurt by dropping it repeatedly while learning. The MSX 100v will be faster but keep in mind even 30mph can feel terrifying for most of us. The hollow bearings on the MSX won't be great in the rain, the case can be fragile, the trolley can be a pain for most. Lastly the pedals on the MSX tend tilt inwards which is great for control etc but painful on longer rides. The MSX would be better in rough off road stuff though.

Edited December 1, 2021 by mike_bike_kite

[meepmeepmayer]

14 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

The hollow bearings on the MSX

The MSX (and its successor, the MSP) have the standard old axle construction. It's an old wheel The RS has the hollow motor (with the new, smaller bearing, they seem to be perfect, but there's the battery issue).

A used MSX for <1000 (or <800 or whatever) would be good. But not a "new" one that is overpriced and has a small battery and sat at the dealer for 2+ years.

Edited December 1, 2021 by meepmeepmayer

[mike_bike_kite]

Thanks for the correction. I'm not sure why I thought they had. I did even do a quick peep on the internet before posting and saw a few sites saying mentioning the hollow motor but I guess you can type and random words into the net these days and find matches 

[meepmeepmayer]

Maybe someone built a Franken-MSX with the RS motor somehow.

Anyways, 2300 V11 or 2000 18XL - a choice between two great wheels! (Or some other wheel?)

[syirrus]

On 12/1/2021 at 9:17 PM, mike_bike_kite said:

I also vote for the 18XL. It's just easier to ride, more comfortable over long distances and it won't get hurt by dropping it repeatedly while learning. The MSX 100v will be faster but keep in mind even 30mph can feel terrifying for most of us. The hollow bearings on the MSX won't be great in the rain, the case can be fragile, the trolley can be a pain for most. Lastly the pedals on the MSX tend tilt inwards which is great for control etc but painful on longer rides. The MSX would be better in rough off road stuff though.

Such a difficult decision. Goodness

Edited December 3, 2021 by syirrus

[mike_bike_kite]

Perhaps it's best just to buy the one your heart yearns for then make up some logical reasons for your decision afterwards. 

[meepmeepmayer]

This is good advice. If there's a wheel that you somehow just want, it is the one to get.

[syirrus]

Well the toss up is between 4 actually. The other wheels I was looking at it the v11 and the v10f.   

The v11 looks nice, but I am reading a lot about bearing issues. 

The v10f looks nice as well, but it doesn't have the range that the Kingsong 18xl has and I fear I will outgrow it quickly. That being said, I have never ridden a wheel before so I'm none the wiser.   

[DS1]

Not to long ago I was in your shoes agonizing over what wheel to purchase. I narrowed my decision down to two wheels v11 and 18Xl . I ended up purchasing the V11 and am very happy with it so far. But this would be my second wheel as I learned on a Mten3. I am not sure how much the higher pedals on the V11 effect learning but it's got to be harder. I believe I would be just as happy with the 18Xl. Solid wheel with good track record. While watching videos you see experienced riders doing amazing things. But that takes time and a lot of effort and probably a lot of crashing. It is very easy to underestimate the sheer size and weight of the new wheels until you actually get your hands on one to try. In all honesty I believe the inmotion V10F is the closest wheel to match my current purposes. (Cruising suburbs )I don't need a lot of speed and don't really like the weight and I have I guess what would be a midsize wheel.   I understand your dilemma these things are not cheap and you want to make a good decision. Best of luck with your purchase

Edited December 3, 2021 by DS1

[syirrus]

17 hours ago, DS1 said:

Not to long ago I was in your shoes agonizing over what wheel to purchase. I narrowed my decision down to two wheels v11 and 18Xl . I ended up purchasing the V11 and am very happy with it so far. But this would be my second wheel as I learned on a Mten3. I am not sure how much the higher pedals on the V11 effect learning but it's got to be harder. I believe I would be just as happy with the 18Xl. Solid wheel with good track record. While watching videos you see experienced riders doing amazing things. But that takes time and a lot of effort and probably a lot of crashing. It is very easy to underestimate the sheer size and weight of the new wheels until you actually get your hands on one to try. In all honesty I believe the inmotion V10F is the closest wheel to match my current purposes. (Cruising suburbs )I don't need a lot of speed and don't really like the weight and I have I guess what would be a midsize wheel.   I understand your dilemma these things are not cheap and you want to make a good decision. Best of luck with your purchase

Thank you for you response. Yeah these things are certainly not cheap. Yeah on YouTube, the weight and size of these EUC's seem to be deceptive when you see pro's using them effortlessly. Being in Germany  I will only be able to ride in the middle of no where basically. I've just got to get out of the house with all this lockdown crap. 

[mrelwood]

Choosing the first wheel is very difficult. But the good part is that every single model you’ve mentioned would already serve the purpose very well, and bring an immeasurable amount of joy to your life! They’re all wheels that deserve their spot in the markets.

 But what each model is worth at the moment is a very different matter. I think 2400€ for the 18XL has been the official price since the beginning, so  three years already, which is way out of line. I think 2000€ as an absolute maximum.

 For the V11 2200€ sounds reasonable, and maybe 1400€ for the V10F. MSX… well… maybe 1500€ tops, in my view. Haven’t checked what it actually costs atm.

The ~1250Wh MSX barely has any more range than the V10F, since Gotways force you to stop earlier. Other than that, only the Wh tells you the range, don’t mind other’s range figures.

 I’m very picky about riding comfort, and the MSX required a lot of work until it was even rideable for me. The others are comfy out of the box. The V11 is of course at a very different level, and I wouldn’t ride any other wheel anymore even if someone paid me.

 If you plan on riding mostly on bad or unpaved roads, I would definitely go for the V11. It will enable a more relaxed riding style, especially on bad roads. The bearing issues stopped once Inmotion started installing the bearing protectors in batch 3b (or 4?) past summer.

 Since you don’t have any riding experience, I don’t think some wheels would be notably more difficult to learn than others (of the mentioned ones). Yes, they ride differently, and the learning process may be slightly different, but not less or more difficult. The forum is full of people who learned with the V11, and a local guy taught a dozen riders this fall in just 10 minutes… on his Sherman.

Good luck with your choice making! (Just do it! ) You won’t regret!

[Unventor]

On 12/1/2021 at 6:39 PM, syirrus said:

Thank you for the advice. It is really helpful for me!  

I see that you are in Germany. If I buy from eunicycles.eu there will be no additional VAT that I would have to pay?  

Also, how do you far with riding in Germany?  I was planning on riding out in the fields where there is hardly anyone. Is that a good idea?

Thank you so much again! It's kinda of overwhelming to make a decision, but you guys have helped me immensely. I will check out the thread on good sellers now! 

The shop is one I have used before. The guy knows his stuff. And more importantly he always helped out in time of need. 

I would not buy a GW or Begode if any of their sister wheels as @meepmeepmayer pointed out the battery fire (risk vs other brand is not acceptable at all for me).

Since you ask for speed and range, then that leaves out so many models. As for speed it is something I don't recommend focus on too much at least in the beginning. It takes time to get subconscious good reactions for riding an EUC. It is the body response when things go wrong or how fast you can handle emergency the right way. It took me the better part of 2500km+. 

I would leave out the KS16X since it is a nice wheel but not built for speed at all. Just don't do it. 45kmh is what should have been its top speed. 

The KS18L could work but the XL has better range. But the price of the 18L could be a factor to look at. There will be a second wheel. The cheaper the first wheel is the sooner you can have the cash for upgrade. But overall the KS18L/XL series is good as it is a proven and reliable model. And great all rounder. 

From Inmotion there are mostly 2 maybe 3 options. For the first wheel I would recommend non-suspension. The reason is price and how complex service can be. And in long term I believe it makes you a better rider when you can feel what is happening going over obstacles. It helps to get a respect for speed. 

So an outsider could be V10f just for the learning to ride and price and for it light weight it is the wheel I recommend if you use it for last distance commuting up stairs or trains or trams. It does not have the speed. 

The V11 could work but due to suspension I wouldn't go there. By the time you are ready to upgrade it might have dropped in price or a new wheel is out. It depends on your first pick and how soon you are ready to make a better choice of what speed and range and other changes you really need. 

The V12 is a wheel I have not yet tested myself. But it could be the one to look at. It is easier to learn to ride at lower pedal heights. But you can adjust it up at a later point. It hold a high speed and a fair range if you don't go fast. Speed and range works against each other similar to a car. Too fast and wind resistant will cut you range. The 3" wide wheel will do better in general but it comes down to tire too and how it is shaped. 

Since you have been reading here some time you know make about tips given in the past. You will see this tip is a little different from what I said in the past. This is due to what you wrote in the beginning. 

If you contact Ryszard from @EUniCycles.euI am sure he can help you too on the decision making. 

And btw welcome to a new way of getting around. 

[Unventor]

On 12/3/2021 at 9:41 PM, syirrus said:

The v11 looks nice, but I am reading a lot about bearing issues. 

Yes there have been issues. But it starting to look it is much better under control. 

Changes to bearing and a now added at factory extra seal helps. 

It is what happen when a company innovate and use new solutions we have not seen before. 

I know some have learned to ride on the V11 but it isn't a design the ease the learning process. 

That is part why I didn't have it as top recommendations on my earlier post.