King Song Next Level Slides and Sherman's low pedals

[UniGrad]

Hey guys. So I own 2 wheels, the KS16x and the Veteran Sherman and I've said many times that the 16x is no good for drifting while the Sherman is excellent for it. The main reason is because of the extra weight of the Sherman which makes it far more stable while leaning into corners. And this very much translates over to drifts/powerslides since this requires a fairly hard lean. While the 16x wants to flap around a lot during a hard lean, the Sherman tends to hold it's lean angle steady. This is why it's much easier to drift it.

The low pedals of the Sherman also make it much easier to drift since they will scrape on the ground during the slide and this provides another point of contact for added stability.

With more practice on the 16x I have found that it is in fact better than the Sherman for several reasons.

The low pedals of the Sherman might help with the stability but it greatly limits how much you can lean into a corner. It's kind of like having training wheels for the drift. Now I am at a stage where the 16x feels very stable and the flapping around thing during a hard lean is no longer an issue. I also don't get speed wobbles at all on this thing and it feels like it could comfortably go like 80kph if it had the power.

But going back to the topic, I have found that the higher pedals of the 16x open up much greater possibilities for doing bigger power slides. In the past I did many good slides on the Sherman, up to about 25 feet long but I strongly felt that it couldn't be pushed much more than that. I really wanted to but I felt like it would be impossible and couldn't understand why. Now I understand that it was due to the low pedals. Since you need to lean more for a faster slide and the pedals don't allow it. And speed is what you need for longer slides.

With more practice I really believe that it will be possible to do some really big slides. Maybe 50 feet long or something like that. One thing that you need though is a loose flat gravel surface. So it needs to be loose and flat but not all types of gravel are suitable. Some are far too grippy. The best type is the one with the tiny rocks. I have found an area like this but it's not flat so it's far from ideal. However this is the best area I can find for now and this is where I have been making most of my drifting videos. Check them out if you're interested. I have many of them as well as many other EUC topics on my "Arc Rides" YouTube channel. But to see the drifts just search for "drift" or "slide" on the vids page. The most recent ones are with the 16x. I just fixed my 16x about 2 weeks ago after it had been sitting around for 6 months while I rode the Sherman. I though I fell out of love with the 16x but now I feel like I like it more than the Sherman. It's those low pedals on the Sherman that really annoy me now that I'm a more experienced rider.

The last thing I'll mention about this topic is that I believe the perfect EUC for sliding would be something like the Sherman with higher pedals. What do you guys think would fit that description best out of all the new wheels. Maybe the Commander?

[Richardo]

Link us one of your good sliding videos!  I watched two so far and now I have to go to bed. Good channel but I wanna see one of these >10' slides!

Here's the channel if anyone wants to save a search. 

[5Cauac]

Dude, Arc my man! I was not aware you went by the handle UniGrad on these forums. 

Longtime subscriber. I just got my self a used Sherman and agree on the pedal height. I own a S18 so I'm used to high pedals.

I believe you can get higher pedal hangers for the Sherman which if they do, i am definitely getting them as I do a lot of off road.

I was pleasantly surprised how stable the Sherman is off road. Besides the extra leg work to absorb bumps, rocks, dips, etc. I'm loving it so far. 

Hope your legal battles are going in your favor. Best of luck mate!

Edited November 29, 2021 by 5Cauac

[fbhb]

8 hours ago, 5Cauac said:

I just got my self a used Sherman and agree on the pedal height. I own a S18 so I'm used to high pedals.

I believe you can get higher pedal hangers for the Sherman which if they do, i am definitely getting them as I do a lot of off road.

@5Cauac just to make you aware, the "raised height pedal hangers" were advertised/stated by Veteran to be 1cm higher than the original but in reality they ONLY increase the height by half that at 5mm.

I had planned some time back to upgrade from the knobby to a street tire and so I also ordered the "raised height pedal hangers" to have on hand and swap out during the strip down. Once I had stripped the Sherman and taken the originals off, I did a side by side comparison and have included the photo of the measurements here.

In my case, although disappointed that I ONLY gained a real world 5mm height increase, I still considered the work/cost involved worthwhile due to loosing a little bit of height swapping from the larger diameter knobby (due to the knobs) to a 80/90-14 Michelin City Pro! (but a nice gain in width and a much rounder profile).

For your situation though, you may want to weigh up whether ONLY achieving a 5mm gain is worth the cost/work involved, as I also had to replace the 4 axle shims due to them being both badly gouged and bent/twisted (Veteran had also used Red Loctite during the torqueing up process of my axle nuts).

Hope this helps.

 

Edit: The countersunk holes in the New pedal hanger were made by myself, as I discarded the "Joke" screws that Veteran have held in with Hot Glue (or was it dried up chewing gum ) and modified the fixing method to some drilled and tapped inserts epoxied into the ends of the Roll Bars to take a countersunk cap screw!

Edited November 30, 2021 by fbhb

[5Cauac]

@fbhb thanks for that info! Totally not worth it for my situation. You just saved a brother some cash. 

 

[fbhb]

32 minutes ago, 5Cauac said:

You just saved a brother some cash. 

Glad to help a brother out!

[.....]

4 hours ago, fbhb said:

@5Cauac just to make you aware, the "raised height pedal hangers" were advertised/stated by Veteran to be 1cm higher than the original but in reality they ONLY increase the height by half that at 5mm.

I had planned some time back to upgrade from the knobby to a street tire and so I also ordered the "raised height pedal hangers" to have on hand and swap out during the strip down. Once I had stripped the Sherman and taken the originals off, I did a side by side comparison and have included the photo of the measurements here.

In my case, although disappointed that I ONLY gained a real world 5mm height increase, I still considered the work/cost involved worthwhile due to loosing a little bit of height swapping from the larger diameter knobby (due to the knobs) to a 80/90-14 Michelin City Pro! (but a nice gain in width and a much rounder profile).

For your situation though, you may want to weigh up whether ONLY achieving a 5mm gain is worth the cost/work involved, as I also had to replace the 4 axle shims due to them being both badly gouged and bent/twisted (Veteran had also used Red Loctite during the torqueing up process of my axle nuts).

Hope this helps.

 

Edit: The countersunk holes in the New pedal hanger were made by myself, as I discarded the "Joke" screws that Veteran have held in with Hot Glue (or was it dried up chewing gum ) and modified the fixing method to some drilled and tapped inserts epoxied into the ends of the Roll Bars to take a countersunk cap screw!

I came up with about the same... 5mm. Of course this is only IF you don't already have the 'higher' hangers. Veteran switched over fairly early on in their manufacturing. New hangers and rims came out about the sime time, iirc. I gained a few mm with hangers, but promptly lost them again, when I went to my pirelli street. I feel the hangers did make a little difference, but it damn sure aint enough to magically make it an 'off-road' capable wheel.

I like your thinking about the recessed bevels to glue some screws in. My sherm came brand new with loose screws and no pipe to find purchase. I fixed them with rtv and pushed the factory screws in. I SHOULD have went uber pimptastic, recessed the holes and rtv'd some stainless screws in. Obviously they don't get much pressure. Hell, how could ANY of it, its the cheapest thin wall tubing a person could find...

Edited November 30, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[fbhb]

3 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I like your thinking about the recessed bevels to glue some screws in

Shane, how very dare you suggest that I would stoop so low as to resort to the very slap dash method I was attempting to rectify by gluing screws back in , surely you jest good sir!!??

My solution was to make then insert and epoxy a plug into the ends of each of the 4 tubes and then drill and tap into each plug to accept 5mm stainless countersunk cap screws, to match All the side panel screws I'd also replaced immediately with stainless!

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by fbhb

[.....]

3 hours ago, fbhb said:

Shane, how very dare you suggest that I would stoop so low as to resort to the very slap dash method I was attempting to rectify by gluing screws back in , surely you jest good sir!!??

My solution was to make then insert and epoxy a plug into the ends of each of the 4 tubes and then drill and tap into each plug to accept 5mm stainless countersunk cap screws, to match All the side panel screws I'd also replaced immediately with stainless!

 

Fair enough. Tbh, I havent had issue since I glued mine in. I know it sounds janky, but they really don't hold much. If I REALLY cared, I could always have a pipe fitter, bend me up some titanium, and tack inserts into that. I guess if I used my rails for sitting, they may need more solid solutions.

Edited November 30, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[fbhb]

7 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I guess if I used my rails for sitting, they may need more solid solutions.

Yep, a seated option is exactly my next addition/upgrade to the Sherm. I'm just now getting All the parts in to add a removeable/hinged Sur-ron seat set up, especially as my Sherman rides are Always maximum range!

Edited November 30, 2021 by fbhb

[UniGrad]

On 11/23/2021 at 4:06 PM, Richardo said:

Link us one of your good sliding videos!  I watched two so far and now I have to go to bed. Good channel but I wanna see one of these >10' slides!

Here's the channel if anyone wants to save a search. 

From memory one of the biggest slides I did was at the beach on the Sherman. It was closer to 25' I think. Here's the link to that vid (it's at the 1 minute mark)

Also thanks for checking out the channel.

[UniGrad]

On 11/30/2021 at 5:01 AM, 5Cauac said:

Dude, Arc my man! I was not aware you went by the handle UniGrad on these forums. 

Longtime subscriber. I just got my self a used Sherman and agree on the pedal height. I own a S18 so I'm used to high pedals.

I believe you can get higher pedal hangers for the Sherman which if they do, i am definitely getting them as I do a lot of off road.

I was pleasantly surprised how stable the Sherman is off road. Besides the extra leg work to absorb bumps, rocks, dips, etc. I'm loving it so far. 

Hope your legal battles are going in your favor. Best of luck mate!

Hey 5Cauac yeah I was on these forums with the name UniGrad before making youtube vids.

It's great to hear from a long time subscriber! Sorry for the late reply here.

Yeah the Sherman is an awesome machine. I love it too. Currently mine is still in pieces and it will stay that way until I get word about the legal issues.

Shouldn't be much longer I would imagine.

[UniGrad]

On 11/30/2021 at 12:38 PM, fbhb said:

@5Cauac just to make you aware, the "raised height pedal hangers" were advertised/stated by Veteran to be 1cm higher than the original but in reality they ONLY increase the height by half that at 5mm.

I had planned some time back to upgrade from the knobby to a street tire and so I also ordered the "raised height pedal hangers" to have on hand and swap out during the strip down. Once I had stripped the Sherman and taken the originals off, I did a side by side comparison and have included the photo of the measurements here.

In my case, although disappointed that I ONLY gained a real world 5mm height increase, I still considered the work/cost involved worthwhile due to loosing a little bit of height swapping from the larger diameter knobby (due to the knobs) to a 80/90-14 Michelin City Pro! (but a nice gain in width and a much rounder profile).

For your situation though, you may want to weigh up whether ONLY achieving a 5mm gain is worth the cost/work involved, as I also had to replace the 4 axle shims due to them being both badly gouged and bent/twisted (Veteran had also used Red Loctite during the torqueing up process of my axle nuts).

Hope this helps.

 

Edit: The countersunk holes in the New pedal hanger were made by myself, as I discarded the "Joke" screws that Veteran have held in with Hot Glue (or was it dried up chewing gum ) and modified the fixing method to some drilled and tapped inserts epoxied into the ends of the Roll Bars to take a countersunk cap screw!

Yeah wow 5mm is nothing. I think the knobs on the tyre are more than that.

Any amount of height increase is a good thing but when it's that little for that much work it makes it really hard to be like "yeah let's do this".

[UniGrad]

On 11/30/2021 at 5:35 PM, ShanesPlanet said:

I came up with about the same... 5mm. Of course this is only IF you don't already have the 'higher' hangers. Veteran switched over fairly early on in their manufacturing. New hangers and rims came out about the sime time, iirc. I gained a few mm with hangers, but promptly lost them again, when I went to my pirelli street. I feel the hangers did make a little difference, but it damn sure aint enough to magically make it an 'off-road' capable wheel.

I like your thinking about the recessed bevels to glue some screws in. My sherm came brand new with loose screws and no pipe to find purchase. I fixed them with rtv and pushed the factory screws in. I SHOULD have went uber pimptastic, recessed the holes and rtv'd some stainless screws in. Obviously they don't get much pressure. Hell, how could ANY of it, its the cheapest thin wall tubing a person could find...

Hey Shane nice to see you drop by. I'm gonna do a video soon about the convo we had about paragliding vs EUC. Remember that? How I asked which one would you give up if you had to give one of them up for life.