New Sherman? (Sherman Max)

[Paul A]

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Most folks are very pleased, but anytime I drop that kind of coin on a toy I'm automatically pleased, no matter how disappointed I may be.

 

59 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Wait a minute. Oxymoron, except for phrases. How is this possible?

 

The statement is in two parts.

 

"I'm automatically pleased"

Is in reference to feelings in the present time.

 

"no matter how disappointed I may be"

Is in reference to possible feelings in the future.

 

[Tawpie]

Back in the iPhone 1 days I released what was for a time the most expensive app on the app store (25USD). I got zero bad reviews even though it was not perfect. Folks that released lower cost apps got roasted for everything... I figured that people who had spent the big bucks didn't complain because finding faults reflected on their judgement. After all, I couldn't have possibly spent that much money on something that wasn't the be-all-end-all, right?

[techyiam]

3 hours ago, Tawpie said:

people who had spent the big bucks didn't complain because finding faults reflected on their judgement. After all, I couldn't have possibly spent that much money on something that wasn't the be-all-end-all, right?

I see which angle you are coming from now. It is a reasonable defense mechanism for one's mental health. Additionally, we sometime can get worked up for something not that big a deal in the overall scheme of things anyway.

Another one which I learnt from a book is that since thoughts can invoke emotions, deliberately tuning out negative thoughts can minimize, or tone down negative emotions too. Sometimes, it is as easy as not say the words in your head. With practice, it is a handy tool to have. 

[Paul A]

4 hours ago, Tawpie said:

I figured that people who had spent the big bucks didn't complain because finding faults reflected on their judgement.

Iphones are arguably a Veblen good. 

Similar in behaviour to a Giffen good, but different perception.

 

An app for an Iphone would similarly be a Veblen good.

The cheaper apps would therefore be criticized.

[DjPanJan]

After longer testing and browsing my vanila sherman v2 eucworld logs.

I can say for me personaly situation where my board suffer 230+ CURENT Amps is over 1 sec. hapened sometime

I check this becasue MAX use 250+ A current firmware "fuse" cut out if 250Amps is over 0,8sec and this can hapend to me propably. ( this is speculation i dont know how many Amps MAX handle same hills compare to vanila sherman)

Results i cancel my preorder sherman MAX and wait to next season to buy i no want be test dummy things like how 21700vs18650 handle cold and bad weather bearings quality board quality firmware quality etc. only time tell.

 

In situation i no have any sherman ,MAX be my choice number one  now this is something i must write here.(like owner V2 i just change bearings to SKF and knobby to street tire heidenau K66 for NEW feel old EUC "poor man choice").

My weight with gear nad backpack is on edge what manufacturer recomended like max allowed weight 🐷🐖 this must be write here for normal weight people problems i face simply never show like ruined(noisy whistle squeek) bearings after 1700miles 2800km and low performance in slow speed riding(vibrating motor compared to 16x or msp HT) and hight curent AMP situations.

 

[Rawnei]

Hi @Seba, we should now have some amount of Sherman Max tours recorded in EUC World, can you see statistically how much it over-reports speed and distance? My impression from eyeing the tours is that it seems to be less than OG Sherman but I could be wrong. Thanks!

[DjPanJan]

In eucworld is clasic sherman v2 loged like SHERMAN MAX be carefull with interpretation. I report this on SLACK.

Becasue all my last logs is sherman MAX category in description what i no own. 

Look self @Rawnei @Seba Maybee is feature and no bug i dont know only thing what i am shure i no have Sherman MAX my shermiboi is V2 original.

 

manufacturer=samsung

brand=samsung

device=r8q

display=SP1A.210812.016.G781B******

id=SP1A.210812.***

model=SM-G781B

product=r8q****

sdk=31

instance=3e2fe5cdc5c4a***

timeZoneId=Europe/Prague

appVersionName=2.17.2

appVersionCode=2020170002

eucType=VETERAN

eucModel=Sherman Max

eucSerial=—

eucDistanceTotal=2915

eucDistanceUser=2442

eucFirmware=1.0.58

eucBluetoothAddress=88:25:83:F2:**:**

eucBluetoothName=LK22**

[Goeuc]

Hi guys.  finally receive my Sherman Max everything is great 👍 but at stand still it little bit shaking ! Does anyone has the same issue?

[Rawnei]

3 hours ago, Goeuc said:

Hi guys.  finally receive my Sherman Max everything is great 👍 but at stand still it little bit shaking ! Does anyone has the same issue?

No that doesn't sound right, maybe motherboard is a bit loose?

[supercurio]

3 hours ago, Goeuc said:

Hi guys.  finally receive my Sherman Max everything is great 👍 but at stand still it little bit shaking ! Does anyone has the same issue?

Also, do you have some extra accessories on top, and is it only hard mode vibrating?

[Goeuc]

Sadly, but I have this vibratuon in all modes. have no any extra accessorieas attached. serviceman told me it could be fixed by future updates. 

[supercurio]

I'm afraid that the serviceman is a bit too optimistic @Goeuc, encouraging you to keep a product exhibiting a fault.
Vibrations mean that things will work themselves lose over time, and it might grow into something more severe.

The minimum required service here IMO is to open and check if everything is tightened to spec, not too little, not too much, and through the whole wheel without exception.

[Goeuc]

On 6/20/2022 at 8:33 PM, supercurio said:

I'm afraid that the serviceman is a bit too optimistic @Goeuc, encouraging you to keep a product exhibiting a fault.
Vibrations mean that things will work themselves lose over time, and it might grow into something more severe.

The minimum required service here IMO is to open and check if everything is tightened to spec, not too little, not too much, and through the whole wheel without exception.

Tnx

[Wolverine]

 

[BKW]

^^While Hsiang is much more experienced than me riding EUCs, I've noticed I don't always agree with him. I haven't yet seen the video -- will check it out later -- but after 1600 miles on the Sherman Max, I don't really have any complaints about this wheel. It's amazing. The only thing is the weak trolley rails, but this is the same for all EUCs, they are all weak.

[Rawnei]

Regarding Sherman Max hill climb ability I would now say it's rather good.

Me and @supercurio both on Sherman Max went up Flottsbro south of Stockholm, it's quite long and steep, we went up the middle part where the lifts are located which consists of a mix of gravel, dirt and some stretches of worn asphalt in the middle, the first half is the steepest, to give you an idea here are some stock photos:

 

Me being a heavy rider, a few kg's below 100kg when geared up, my Max did it without a problem, temperature at top was 72c (4c below wheel alarm), @supercurio being a much lighter rider than me had a temperature of 59c.

Looking at EUC World logs power draw was nothing special, I had higher power draw later on the same tour just from fast acceleration, so high temperature is just from sustaining higher than normal power draw over long period.

So for me this means stress test passed and no more worry about board burning up which is a big relief.

[supercurio]

Quick heads-up, Leaperkim put the silicon around the motor wires in the wrong place, providing a channel if not a funnel for dust, dirt, grime, water and even sand to get inside the motor.

I'll have a full write-up soon, but in the meantime I would urge any Max owner to avoid riding in wet/dirty environments.

When helping a friend changing a tire, we found out his motor was making odd sounds. The reason was because if was full of sand.

[techyiam]

13 minutes ago, supercurio said:

The reason was because if was full of sand.

That is insane. Wow! The early batch curse is ever present. 

[fbhb]

6 hours ago, techyiam said:

That is insane. Wow! The early batch curse is ever present.

My personal opinion is that "The early batch" curse has nothing to do with ANY of these issues found on ANY EUC model or brand.

I will Always stand by the fact that QC or lack thereof has long been and still is a major contributing factor, along with poor attention to detail we constantly see across the board!

It definitely should not be this way, especially as the tech currently adds more and more features and therefore more areas for poor assembly/incorrect component choice/etc. etc. to trip themselves up!

Unfortunately, this is the price we pay and the sad fact of Only having China producing our beloved one wheeled devices and does not improve/has not improved significantly during the several years and approaching 30,000Kms I have enjoyed riding EUC'S!

My personal experience of dealing with this ongoing lack of any real QC, is to carry out my own strip and check/carry out upgrades before even riding a New wheel!

(Back in the day, this approach was pretty much a given and widely recommended for the purchase of a GotWay i.e. open it up and check All screws are there/tightened check the wiring and tidy up the cables etc. etc., but now sadly applies to All brands)

Again, as stated, this SHOULD not be the case with a Brand New purchase, but I have far greater trust in my own abilities to assemble correctly than Any of the EUC manufacturers assembly workers. Only then will I step foot on a New wheel and would still proceed with caution for the first few hundred Kms, before trusting the electronics.

This is just my perspective to safeguard myself/my investment as much as is possible and under my control, as ultimately it's my personal safety on the line Not the EUC manufacturers.

Edited July 29, 2022 by fbhb

[supercurio]

Here's the full description of the defect identified. Please let every Sherman Max owner know!

 

[techyiam]

6 hours ago, fbhb said:

I will Always stand by the fact that QC or lack thereof has long been and still is a major contributing factor, along with poor attention to detail we constantly see across the board!

QC issues, would surely be a large contributor. However, for things like the S22 sliders, S22 front bumper, choice of fasteners, or under-spec'd mosfets, these are beyond QC.

As long as there are large number of riders willing to buy defective wheels, I don't see anything going to change. Typically some will complain a bit, and then the next thing you know, even some of the people who complained bought another early batch wheel. And that cycle repeats and repeats, over and over again.

 

Edited July 30, 2022 by techyiam

[techyiam]

@supercurio

If you don't mind my asking, on level ground, for the same amount of leaning effort, does the Sherman Max out accelerate the V12 by a large margin, and ditto for braking?

In Wrongway's latest video on the V12 HT, that is what he observed. Curious about your experience.  Thanks.

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by techyiam

[supercurio]

2 minutes ago, techyiam said:

@supercurio

If you don't mind my asking, on level ground, for the same amount of leaning effort, does the Sherman Max out accelerate the V12 by a large margin, and in ditto for braking?

In Wrongway's latest video on the V12 HT, that is what he observed. Curious about your experience.  Thanks.

I've never ridden a V12 in my life (despite owning one 🙈, will sell imminently) so I'm afraid I can't answer!

To try to give some kind of answer still, "with the same amount of leaning" all wheels will accelerate the same, once taking their weight and pedal height out of the equation.
"with the same amount of leaning effort" tho adds pedal softness in the equation, aka how much the wheel will tilts forward to aid shifting the center of gravity ahead.

And it's a good predictor. For instance you could often hear that a Sherman was sluggish to accelerate at low speed, but more responsive at higher speeds. I believe it's because a Sherman, even in hard mode tilts the pedal forward quite a bit during acceleration but very slowly (over seconds).
At the opposite of the spectrum, some wheels like older KingSong or Inmotion to a certain extent will allow pedal tilting with little delay if any. Pedals in a KS-16X for instance in soft mode has some give, so you get the acceleration assistance right away. And thanks to its low pedals, low weight and programming is easy to accelerate even in hard mode.

I'm rambling now sorry 🙈 I hope I answered the question somewhat!

[That Guy]

I also have just watched Wrong Way video for V12HT and left somewhat perplexed. (Perplexed for good, as I am about to order the Sherman Max as I am getting increasingly convinced that it will do well on my daily hilly commute.) Basically Adam is suggesting that V12HT doesn't act like a high torque wheel despite being both 16" and "HT"  on paper. In his previous video about Sherman Max he was praising it for being an exciting wheel and was saying something like "doesn't a matter if the spec is "only" 2800W - it how it rides what really matters". I think, as Supercurio was explaining, LeaperKim appear to know the right riding algorithms, which are of course, reliably supported by Sherman Max's design.

[supercurio]

@That Guy To me Sherman and Sherman Max ride, brake, accelerate the exact same with the same pads config and input.

But I've been accelerating much harder on the Max after observing its torque limits are significantly higher - before being over powered. I think aggressive riders integrate that in their behavior and will lean differently depending on the perception of how much you can push before pedal dip.

On the pedals programming, I'm not sure Veteran is the best. I mean it works but it's pretty blunt. Angling the wheel way forward in accelerations and at speed, same after a turn.. for sure, it helps accelerating but it could be more subtle instead of a basic hard mode with pedal dipping (hard/medium) and a very floaty soft mode in comparison.
Would appreciate more nuances, and configurable like a V12 👍