Inmotion V13 Speculation

[Jon Wall]

21 hours ago, mrelwood said:

The only way for short charging (80% charging) NOT to kill the battery ten times faster is if the BMS has active balancing. So far none of the EUCs have, and I don’t think people are realistically expecting for the V13 to have either.

 If you think or wonder if 80% charging would be good for EUCs, I suggest you watch this video:

 

Great info. Clean, straight to the point . Thanks for clearing that up 

[techyiam]

Here is a video of a V13 high speed tunnel run at night. At one point when the rider had to slow down to do a U-turn, the braking looked OK. According to the onboard speedometer, he rode a hair above 81 km/h. Now we are talking. He rode through 70 km/h quite effortlessly, albeit in a tunnel. Nothing against that though, since it would be safer to do such runs there when there is basically no traffic.

https://fb.watch/gJPDH_vrzp/

Edited November 11, 2022 by techyiam

[Robse]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

Here is a video of a V13 high speed tunnel run at night. At one point when the rider had to slow down to do a U-turn, the braking looked OK. According to the onboard speedometer, he rode a hair above 81 km/h. Now we are talking. He rode through 70 km/h quite effortlessly, albeit in a tunnel. Nothing against that though, since it would be safer to do such runs there when there is basically no traffic.

https://fb.watch/gJPDH_vrzp/

One of the first V13 videos where everything looks real, and i am impressed by the acceleration from 30 - 70, this is fast and total in control.  And the braking is superb.

[UPONIT]

13 hours ago, techyiam said:

Here is a video of a V13 high speed tunnel run at night. At one point when the rider had to slow down to do a U-turn, the braking looked OK. According to the onboard speedometer, he rode a hair above 81 km/h. Now we are talking. He rode through 70 km/h quite effortlessly, albeit in a tunnel. Nothing against that though, since it would be safer to do such runs there when there is basically no traffic.

https://fb.watch/gJPDH_vrzp/

Wow. Has InMotion hired sound designers like automakers? It sounds great (was that a juicy tire screech at 0:48 ?! ) and looks stable at speed. I'll never go that fast (even 40 mph on my bike is miserable) but that honkin' motor should make quick work of hills.

[Tawpie]

I want that headlight. sell to me. please

[Paul A]

V13 looks great.

Any problems with it?

Besides the weight.

[MrMonoWheel]

16 minutes ago, Paul A said:

V13 looks great.

Any problems with it?

Besides the weight.

I heard there were undisclosed issues that needed to be delay with, hence the delay in real information. However thats the point of their tactic this time around. In my opinion the only thing "wrong" is the weight and even then you are paying for a high speed well made powerful machine. Its not going to be light.

[KiwiMark]

Are there any 22" wheels that aren't heavy?

As far as 22" suspension wheels go, won't this be the lightest one available?

[Tawpie]

An earlier video (the one where he's riding through what looks like an unfinished sidewalk) really showed off how abrupt the cutoff in the beam was at the top (avoid blinding oncoming folks). You can see it in this vid too and it looks almost as good as a modern car. In that earlier video, the wheel is very slow to get out of pedal dipping during acceleration (soft mode?) and the beam pattern is really clear. This video looks like the same light, and to me as the owner of a set of headlights that blind people, it is a considerable advancement.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Tawpie

[Paul A]

Sounds like maybe a dipped car headlight.

Does look quite bright.

Eucs seem to be morphing into a half motorbike, with speed, power, weight, suspension quality, and price.

 

[InfiniteWheelie]

2 hours ago, Paul A said:

Eucs seem to be morphing into a half motorbike, with speed, power, weight, suspension quality, and price.

That's a good thing in my opinion. 

It's like having a motorcycle that can fit in your car trunk, house, elevators etc. The form factor doesn't change very drastically by making it vehicle grade. Sure it will weight 50+ kg, but it's still quite small overall. I think the V13 and future big wheels are where the EUC form factor really shines. To have that much power, speed, and stability in something still suitcase sized is pretty amazing.

If anything I'd like to own two EUCs. A small one like the V10 for short trips, and a half motorcycle like the V13 for real road riding. It's the medium sized wheels like the Sherman that no longer interest me. They suck at being nimble, while still needing caution to not overpower.

Edited November 12, 2022 by InfiniteWheelie

[KiwiMark]

19 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

If anything I'd like to own two EUCs. A small one like the V10 for short trips, and a half motorcycle like the V13 for real road riding.

I think it definitely makes sense to own more than one wheel if you are going to own something as big as a 22" wheel.  Even the Sherman-S at 44kg is a very heavy wheel and a light or middle weight wheel is worth owning to cover the situations where the heavy wheel is just too much.  I couldn't see the V13 being the right choice for taking on a bus for example.  For commuting across a city where you want to use your PEV for the entire trip - the V13 might be a great choice.

[MrMonoWheel]

52 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

That's a good thing in my opinion. 

It's like having a motorcycle that can fit in your car trunk, house, elevators etc. The form factor doesn't change very drastically by making it vehicle grade. Sure it will weight 50+ kg, but it's still quite small overall. I think the V13 and future big wheels are where the EUC form factor really shines. To have that much power, speed, and stability in something still suitcase sized is pretty amazing.

If anything I'd like to own two EUCs. A small one like the V10 for short trips, and a half motorcycle like the V13 for real road riding. It's the medium sized wheels like the Sherman that no longer interest me. They suck at being nimble, while still needing caution to not overpower.

I share the exact same viewpoint. I got into EUCs on a V11, which at the time was considered larger when people were riding stuff like the V8, 16s, MTen3, etc. However, to me it wasn't meant to be a fun toy to pop around on. I purchased it to actually go places and use it like a personal vehicle (I ride motorcycles so I kinda hold a preference toward smaller vehicles). Because of this, the V13 is really appealing to me since, as you guys said, its like a mini motorcycle-grade vehicle. If I keep my V11 around for commuting around college, the V13 is a perfect addition as it will allow me to cruise the 40ish mile round trip ride to the beach and back without worrying about running out of battery. And the size and weight will make it very stable and smooth when doing so. However, if I am only going to have a single wheel I would have to go with a middleground like the sherman S. 

[Paul A]

6 hours ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

It's like having a motorcycle that can fit in your car trunk, house, elevators etc.

 

Perhaps this could be a path way to some partial legalization.

In a few years, development of even more powerful and faster EUC's, will be on a comparable basis with motorcycles, thus road legal.

With registration, identification plates, licensing, insurance.

Perhaps a delineation between those powerful enough for roads without restrictions, and the smaller ones more for suited for bicycle paths/local roads.

[bracky72]

Euc have no mechanical brakes.  That seems like a problem for road usage. 

[Paul A]

18 minutes ago, bracky72 said:

Euc have no mechanical brakes.  That seems like a problem for road usage. 

If an EUC has a motor failure, cutout, braking failure..........the wheel crashes, tumbles.

If an EUC has a secondary, emergency braking system......conventional hydraulic/cable/mechanical caliper, brake pads.......if/when it is deployed..... the wheel crashes, tumbles.

Same outcome.

 

Secondary, emergency conventional braking systems on electric cars, trams, trains, work with a stable platform of other wheels to keep it upright.

EUCs are legal in some countries, with restrictions.

[bracky72]

That’s what I mean. You’re never going to get a euc registered and insured like a motor vehicle because of that. They aren’t safe for usage on the road. Sure we do it but not insured!

[Paul A]

Brakes on trucks can overheat and fail.

Brakes can fail on vehicles through neglect, damaged rotors, hydraulic leaks, mud or water, overloading, etc.

Tyres, especially retreads, can delaminate.

All sorts of failures possible in vehicles too.

Still registered.

 

If self balancing on EUC fails, it crashes.  Brakes would be irrelevant.

If self balancing is working, braking cannot fail.

Cannot have self balancing working, but braking not.

 

Hopefully more countries will legalize EUCs in years to come.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Paul A

[Mono]

50 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Perhaps this could be a path way to some partial legalization.

In a few years, development of even more powerful and faster EUC's, will be on a comparable basis with motorcycles, thus road legal.

With registration, identification plates, licensing, insurance.

That's a long shot for sure. The PLEV path complying with bicycle-typical speeds is the shortcut and is already reality at many places.

12 minutes ago, bracky72 said:

That’s what I mean. You’re never going to get a euc registered and insured like a motor vehicle because of that. They aren’t safe for usage on the road. Sure we do it but not insured!

In parts of Europe, road usage of EUCs is legal up to 25km/h.

26 minutes ago, bracky72 said:

Euc have no mechanical brakes.  That seems like a problem for road usage. 

What is the problem with that? If anything with the motor, electric or electronic, goes wrong on an EUC, self-balancing will fail first and then the type of brakes (mechanical or electric) won't matter. Electric braking is IMHO not a safety liability.

[Robse]

8 minutes ago, Mono said:

That's a long shot for sure. The PLEV path complying with bicycle-typical speeds is the shortcut and is already reality at many places.

In parts of Europe, road usage of EUCs is legal up to 25km/h.

What is the problem with that? If anything with the motor, electric or electronic, goes wrong on an EUC, self-balancing will fail first and then the type of brakes (mechanical or electric) won't matter. Electric braking is IMHO not a safety liability.

EUC's are pr. defeniton not legal at all in Denmark & Germany.

The problem with missing brakes is exactly this:  If anything happens with the motor, electric or electronics in a car, motorcycle, ebike, escooter etc, you still have brakes !   On a EUC you have nothing, and the wheel will continue tumbling like at bat out hell in whatever direction and speed it came from.

[Mono]

On 11/12/2022 at 3:01 PM, Robse said:

EUC's are pr. defeniton not legal at all in Denmark & Germany.

True (though I am myself not 100% sure of the regulations in Denmark EDIT: it seems they are legal with a speed limit of 20km/h), and EUCs are legal in many other European countries (with speed restriction).

On 11/12/2022 at 3:01 PM, Robse said:

The problem with missing brakes is exactly this:  If anything happens with the motor, electric or electronics in a car, motorcycle, ebike, escooter etc, you still have brakes !   On a EUC you have nothing, and the wheel will continue tumbling like at bat out hell in whatever direction and speed it came from.

If an EUC has mechanical brakes and anything happens with the motor, electric or electronics, the wheel will be out of control and the mechanical brakes won't help at all, they will just add weight and increase the potential impact.

The "problem" is not the missing brakes, the "problem" is that we rely on the self-balancing. Self-balancing is intrinsic to the operation of an EUC, so if this is a problem for you, you have to switch to a different device.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Mono

[Robse]

1 minute ago, Mono said:

True, and legal with speed restriction in many other countries.

If an EUC has mechanical brakes and anything happens with the motor, electric or electronics, the wheel will be out of control and the mechanical brakes won't help at all, they will just add weight and increase the potential impact.

Excact!  a EUC can not have mechanical brakes, and that's the big problem in legalize them:  All other vehicles are required to have brakes, mechanical brakes, brakes that can be tested, brakes that are not dependent on the skills of the rider.  This is the problem:  I am pretty sure, that a EUC capable of doing +50 mph will never ever be street legal i Denmark, regardless of assurance and drivers license or whatever;  The simple reason; No brakes. 

[Mono]

19 minutes ago, Robse said:

Excact!  a EUC can not have mechanical brakes, and that's the big problem in legalize them:  All other vehicles are required to have brakes, mechanical brakes, brakes that can be tested, brakes that are not dependent on the skills of the rider.

When we talk about motorcycling, brake performance for sure depends on rider skills. I am also confused why electric brakes could not be tested.

19 minutes ago, Robse said:

  This is the problem:  I am pretty sure, that a EUC capable of doing +50 mph will never ever be street legal i Denmark, regardless of assurance and drivers license or whatever;  The simple reason; No brakes. 

I see, you seem to refer to the question how to convince legislators, not the question how safe EUCs actually are. I totally agreed, it's a long shot to get EUCs legalized outside of the PLEV framework. I don't necessarily think though that the missing mechanical brakes are the ultimate deal breaker. There is always a first and one could "easily" add a mechanical brake and then show that it does not improve safety a little bit.

This is my prediction: if an influential European manufacturer, say Volkswagen or BMW, has constructed an EUC and wants to sell them under motorcycle-like operating conditions, they will get the legislation done. On the other side, as long as no influential manufacturer is pushing, it will not happen in the next ten years.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Mono

[Punxatawneyjoe]

23 minutes ago, Robse said:

The simple reason; No brakes. 

Although i can't speak to the legality of an EUC on the road and especially in Denmark. I would argue that although an EUC has no mechanical brakes, it does have brakes in the sense of the word the same way a Maglev train has "brakes" . One of the definitions of the word brake is: 2. Something that slows or stops action. And magnetic braking does exactly that as well as being rider controlled just like a mechanical system.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Punxatawneyjoe
extra word

[InfiniteWheelie]

3 hours ago, Paul A said:

 

Perhaps this could be a path way to some partial legalization.

In a few years, development of even more powerful and faster EUC's, will be on a comparable basis with motorcycles, thus road legal.

With registration, identification plates, licensing, insurance.

Perhaps a delineation between those powerful enough for roads without restrictions, and the smaller ones more for suited for bicycle paths/local roads.

No.

Edited November 12, 2022 by InfiniteWheelie